From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/84478 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marco Patzer Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Feedback wanted on a ConTeXt tutorial Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:05:10 +0200 Message-ID: <20130929170510.GA14768@homerow> References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2015691671==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380474324 6342 80.91.229.3 (29 Sep 2013 17:05:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:05:24 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sun Sep 29 19:05:29 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VQKQy-0003kN-Rr for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:05:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D417101EE; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id s+y-pgwB48gM; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E2E8101DE; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46FB101DE for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id UaH7ORdDzjye for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E86410193 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:03:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from forward1l.mail.yandex.net (forward1l.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1819::1]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id r8TH5DJC017336 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:05:14 +0200 Original-Received: from smtp3h.mail.yandex.net (smtp3h.mail.yandex.net [84.201.186.20]) by forward1l.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 32AA01520C4A for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:05:13 +0400 (MSK) Original-Received: from smtp3h.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3h.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id E924F1B41650 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:05:12 +0400 (MSK) Original-Received: from unknown (unknown [83.68.239.193]) by smtp3h.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id RzrjNqGs4v-5Cga6j0n; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:05:12 +0400 Mail-Followup-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB8CFCB65D4F08C27 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9938 (Score 4.7, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a02:6b8:0:1819::1; country=RU X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03Kv55ezm - fe2bf7166767 - 20130929 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:84478 Archived-At: --===============2015691671== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wRRV7LY7NUeQGEoC" Content-Disposition: inline --wRRV7LY7NUeQGEoC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2013=E2=80=9309=E2=80=9329 Mari Voipio wrote: > Inspired by some informal discussions at the recent ConTeXt meeting I > started to write a *really* basic ConTeXt tutorial. I'm happy to see someone willing to invest time and effort to improve the documentation! I did neither attend the meeting, nor take part in this discussion and I don't want to sound discouraging in any way. But I'm not sure if it makes sense to start another manual. ConTeXt already has plenty of manuals, including the very short =E2=80=9CTop 10 macro=E2=80=9D guide: http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/info/context-top-ten/cmds.pdf Then there is a medium sized manual aimed at beginners, =E2=80=9CConTeXt, an excursion=E2=80=9D (which is rather outdated, I agree) http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mp-cb-en.pdf =E2=80=9CConTeXt, an excursion=E2=80=9D would probably come closest to what= you have started. And then there is the main reference manual http://pmrb.free.fr/contextref.pdf I think the best approach is to focus on one single manual and write it in a beginner-friendly fashion. Everything else leads to duplicated effort and confusion. Furthermore, information scattered in many small places is harder to keep up-to-date. If a short beginner tutorial is required, I would suggest to create short chapter =E2=80=9CA jump start for the impatient=E2=80=9D or something= along those lines and add installation instructions to the manual, detailing the TeXlive and ConTeXt standalone installation process. As I said, I didn't take part in the mentioned discussion, so I might be missing out relevant information. > However, before I get further than the first six chapters, I'd > like to get feedback on it, especially on the content, but also on > the layout. The file is (at least temporarily) available at > . Some thoughts: 1.1.1 Unfortunately there=E2=80=99s no really easy way to install ConTEXt on Wi= ndows. I never installed ConTeXt on Windows, but if this is true this should definitely be fixed. According to http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Standalone#Command_line_method it should be sufficient to run 1) download the installer: http://minimals.contextgarden.net/setup/context-= setup-mswin.zip 2) install: first-setup.bat 3) add ConTeXt to path: http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Windows_Installation:= _ConTeXt_Suite_with_SciTe#Step_3:_Add_ConTeXt_to_Windows_search_path (Maybe adding the exact command or a screenshot for step 3 would be helpful.) If this fails, we should work on that. 5 Formatting text Since you explicitly mention =E2=80=9CThe basic idea is to separate layout =66rom content=E2=80=9D in sections 2.1 and 3.1 I think it's not very educational to tell beginners to use font switches in the code: This is a {\ss test}. % sans serif This is a {\tt test}. % typewriter Rather teach logical markup from the very beginning. \definehighlight [important] [style=3Dbold] \important{This} is logical markup. 6.3 Floats This is arguable, but I personally would drop the (not deprecated and still supported) MkII syntax for floats \placefigure [here,force] % really try to put the float just here {This is a cow} % Caption {\externalfigure[cow][width=3D2cm]} and replace it with the more intuitive MkIV syntax: \startplacefigure [title=3DA cow, reference=3Dfig:acow] \externalfigure [cow] \stopplacefigure And refrain from using the [here, force] setting, otherwise beginners will never grasp the concept of floats. 6.4 Combinations Also arguable, but you might consider using the newer \startcombination [nx=3D3, ny=3D1] =E2=80=A6 syntax. It's more contextish and easier to understand, in my opinion. Furthermore, it's not covered in any of the manuals, as far as I know. I hope I phrased my comments in a constructive and helpful manner. Marco --wRRV7LY7NUeQGEoC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSSF3GAAoJEPGqVaNSn0iKb/kH/2kv3hj/N/GpUR5NeD4sUClJ 1GkM9sRSJYO4XeAin+9ejAV6TRljIf6i4qpZ8g7qkvCifvxQG/4yqz5yUWE/uWN4 0XJIHpHn9NNJfJqAX10wbe/9vydA8SJw+kuXxkteByNMg4Br8Uj1rn0DtT8j0uCl goAfBelIwJpSDcJ3DCHYmxgcaVBxGqovkK6yKvhpD7hq6+xhOIb0dGTFx9TnThfq U3RsTl3wy4sjB2pMA5duUGpTHA7T7vZ6v2Z0hqpJXSc/l49ohYzFcP4U745QpoFb Vk0oMKR1/bTn/IsStJlHU8U9ASyUOqxt/cIYOv8iyzfY74qFQWu0DYIpxLWWrAQ= =5WyC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wRRV7LY7NUeQGEoC-- --===============2015691671== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============2015691671==--