* optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek @ 2019-03-24 16:38 Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-25 14:09 ` Arthur Reutenauer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-24 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear list (especially Thomas and Arthur), I opened a request for optional hyphenation patterns at GitHub (https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/issues/34). I’m not advocating changing the default, but only providing hyphenation patterns that allow hyphenating consonant pairs that cannot be at the word beginning. I think it may make sense to discuss the issue there (@ GitHub). Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-24 16:38 optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-25 14:09 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-03-25 19:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-03-25 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2488 bytes --] Dear Pablo, Five months ago I sent you a private email with detailed explanations of how you can achieve that in ConTeXt. I suggest you go through that first before we start talking about a new pattern set. Here is the email, with a few updates (the paragraph quoted at the top is by myself). ---- Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:05:17 +0200 From: Arthur Reutenauer <arthur.reutenauer@normalesup.org> > In LuaTeX it’s now possible to inject patterns on the fly, at > typesetting time. I admit to not knowing if ConTeXt has a special way to > take advantage of that; it’s a simple command in pure LuaTeX. It would > also be necessary to change a few patterns in the current set, because > they would interact badly with 2γ1μ. More on that tomorrow. OK, so here goes. It is not possible to just use \patterns in the middle of a Mark IV run, because Hans deactivates it (in lang-ini.mkiv) -- clearly a remnant from Mark II, as in pdfTeX and XeTeX it would have resulted in an error; in ConTeXt it just becomes a no-op, which thus shadows LuaTeX’s behaviour that could actually have been useful. The situation in Mark IV is documented in languages-mkiv.pdf which is part of the distribution: Hans rewrote the whole hyphenation routine in Lua in 2014, and users can switch to it with \setuphyphenation[method=traditional] The idea behind the name is apparently that the Lua code mimics the “traditional” way implemented in the TeX engine, and Hans envisages that other methods can be written in the future (but this hasn’t happened yet). The non-Lua method is on by default and can be chosen explicitly with \setuphyphenation[method=default] but it is not possible to inject new patterns that way because of the above. With the Lua method activated, it becomes possible to add patterns on the fly with \registerhyphenationpattern[agr][2γ1μ] Some care should be taken when adding patterns to an existing set, since they can -- and in this case do -- interact with other patterns in the set. Here, I’ve found that this row of patterns (l. 516 of the master file, https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/blob/82e5651/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-grc.tex#L516): 4γμ' 4γμ’ 4γμʼ 4γμ᾽ 4γμ᾿ needs to be overridden with patterns such as γ2μ' γ2μ’ γ2μʼ γ2μ᾽ γ2μ᾿ otherwise the new pattern would allow breaks before the mu. The attached file puts everything together. ---- Best, Arthur [-- Attachment #2: add-patterns-on-the-fly.tex --] [-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 377 bytes --] \mainlanguage[agr] \definefont[linuxlibertine][name:linlibertineo] \starttext \hsize=1pt \linuxlibertine πρᾶγμα πράγματος \setuphyphenation[method=traditional] \registerhyphenationpattern[agr][2γ1μ γ2μ’] πρᾶγμα πράγματος πραγμ’ ἄτος % Without the second pattern above, we get the incorrect break πραγ-μ’ \stoptext [-- Attachment #3: add-patterns-on-the-fly.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 7885 bytes --] [-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-25 14:09 ` Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-03-25 19:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-26 8:42 ` Arthur Reutenauer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-25 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 3/25/19 3:09 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > Dear Pablo, > > Five months ago I sent you a private email with detailed explanations > of how you can achieve that in ConTeXt. I suggest you go through that > first before we start talking about a new pattern set. Here is the > email, with a few updates (the paragraph quoted at the top is by > myself). Dear Arthur, many thanks for your reply. I read your original message when you sent it, but the issue with that kind of hyphenation exceptions is that they are document-based (I had used them before, for Spanish [and German, I think]). This is why I asked for the discussion of a new pattern set. But I didn’t know that ConTeXt doesn’t allow them. So, this has to be solved before a different pattern set could make sense in ConTeXt. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-25 19:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-26 8:42 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-03-30 14:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-03-26 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:57:40PM +0100, Pablo Rodriguez wrote: > I read your original message when you sent it, but the issue with that > kind of hyphenation exceptions is that they are document-based No. Why would they be restricted to a single document? > This is why I asked for the discussion of a new pattern set. Well, my contribution was sent five months ago, you didn’t reply to it until now, and since you talk about hyphenation exceptions above I suspect you haven’t really understood it. It doesn’t use exceptions at all, and takes instead advantage of LuaTeX’s ability to manipulate the pattern set on the fly. As such, it can actually be a step towards an entirely new pattern set, but it is of course not complete. I am however not prepared to put even more effort into this unless you contribute something too yourself. > But I didn’t know that ConTeXt doesn’t allow them. So, this has to be > solved before a different pattern set could make sense in ConTeXt. This paragraph is either nonsensical or counterfactual. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Best, Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-26 8:42 ` Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-03-30 14:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-31 20:18 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-30 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 3/26/19 9:42 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:57:40PM +0100, Pablo Rodriguez wrote: >> I read your original message when you sent it, but the issue with that >> kind of hyphenation exceptions is that they are document-based > > No. Why would they be restricted to a single document? Where should I add it to have it in all my documents? I guess that even in that case it would be restricted to the distribution I’m using. (I mean, I had to add them again if I use another computer.) For me, adding the command to the document (or the distribution) would be easier. But this isn’t about my documents or myself. >> This is why I asked for the discussion of a new pattern set. > > Well, my contribution was sent five months ago, you didn’t reply to it > until now, and since you talk about hyphenation exceptions above I > suspect you haven’t really understood it. Sorry for my delayed reply, but I don’t have much time to devote it to these issues (they are pure hobby for me). I also had to check the reference for the alternate hyphenation (I didn’t had the book myself and I wasn’t near to a library where I could lend it). In my documents, I have been using \registerhyphenationpattern for more than three years (to enable a hyphenation with a line starting with "no" at the beginning of the line). > It doesn’t use exceptions at all, and takes instead advantage of > LuaTeX’s ability to manipulate the pattern set on the fly. As such, > it can actually be a step towards an entirely new pattern set, but it > is of course not complete. Sorry for my inaccuracy, I know that \registerhyphenationexception is a different command from \registerhyphenationpattern. > I am however not prepared to put even more effort into this unless > you contribute something too yourself. I only wanted to discuss the issue before providing the patch with the patterns (at least) at GitHub. To avoid misunderstandings, I have just edited the title of the issue at GitHub (https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/issues/34). >> But I didn’t know that ConTeXt doesn’t allow them. So, this has to be >> solved before a different pattern set could make sense in ConTeXt. > > This paragraph is either nonsensical or counterfactual. I don’t > understand what you’re trying to say. With “pattern set” I meant an optional pattern set that allows the hyphenation of all pair of consonants that don’t start a word (γ-μ, but not γ-ν) which are blocked in the main hyphenation pattern set. I don‘t know how, but this optional set has to be loaded with the main hyphenation patterns. I don’t know how to add those patterns as alternate ones. But I’m going to provide the patch with the needed hyphenations. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-30 14:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-31 20:18 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2019-03-31 20:55 ` Pablo Rodriguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2019-03-31 20:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez Pablo Rodriguez schrieb am 30.03.19 um 15:40: > On 3/26/19 9:42 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:57:40PM +0100, Pablo Rodriguez wrote: >>> I read your original message when you sent it, but the issue with that >>> kind of hyphenation exceptions is that they are document-based >> No. Why would they be restricted to a single document? > Where should I add it to have it in all my documents? > > I guess that even in that case it would be restricted to the > distribution I’m using. (I mean, I had to add them again if I use > another computer.) > > For me, adding the command to the document (or the distribution) would > be easier. But this isn’t about my documents or myself. You can put your extensions in a module and put it on the garden or ctan when it should be part of tex live. When you make a new installation you can download the module together with the base files and afterwards load the module in your document. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-31 20:18 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2019-03-31 20:55 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-04-03 14:14 ` Arthur Reutenauer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-03-31 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 3/31/19 10:18 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > Pablo Rodriguez schrieb am 30.03.19 um 15:40: >> [...] >> For me, adding the command to the document (or the distribution) would >> be easier. But this isn’t about my documents or myself. > > You can put your extensions in a module and put it on the garden > or ctan when it should be part of tex live. > > When you make a new installation you can download the module together > with the base files and afterwards load the module in your document. Many thanks for the reply, Wolfgang. Since this isn’t about myself or my documents, I guess it is worth to provide the optional hyphenation set to all TeX users, not only the ones who use ConTeXt. Many thanks again for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-03-31 20:55 ` Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-04-03 14:14 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-04-22 8:29 ` Pablo Rodriguez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-04-03 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users Pablo, On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 10:55:18PM +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote: > Since this isn’t about myself or my documents, I guess it is worth to > provide the optional hyphenation set to all TeX users, not only the ones > who use ConTeXt. You’re making it impossible to help you. Whatever anyone says, you dismiss it with various excuses: you already knew that, you read the email but needed half a year to tell it wasn’t useful, you want to have the discussion in another forum. Right now it’s imaginary users that prop your demand for a different solution because it “isn’t about yourself or your documents” -- even though it clearly is. No one else here has expressed interest in what you’re asking for. There’s worse, though. Your original request revealed that some consonant pairs could be treated differently when hyphenating Ancient Greek. Which are they? Determining that was clearly on you, and would have brought at least a modicum of substance to the discussion. Having however more or less lost hope that you ever will, I did that job myself and now think that βμ βν γμ θμ πμ τν φμ χμ are the only consonant pairs that require a different treatment. Would you please confirm? Best, Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek 2019-04-03 14:14 ` Arthur Reutenauer @ 2019-04-22 8:29 ` Pablo Rodriguez 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2019-04-22 8:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On 4/3/19 4:14 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > [...] > βμ βν γμ θμ πμ τν φμ χμ > > are the only consonant pairs that require a different treatment. Would > you please confirm? Arthur, the pairs are (to the best of my knowledge): βμ βν γμ δλ θμ πμ τν φμ χμ The patterns would be: %% βμ 2β1μ 2β1μ' 2β1μ’ 2β1μʼ 2β1μ᾽ 2β1μ᾿ 2ϐ1μ 2ϐ1μ' 2ϐ1μ’ 2ϐ1μʼ 2ϐ1μ᾽ 2ϐ1μ᾿ %% βν 2β1ν 2β1ν' 2β1ν’ 2β1νʼ 2β1ν᾽ 2β1ν᾿ 2ϐ1ν 2ϐ1ν' 2ϐ1ν’ 2ϐ1νʼ 2ϐ1ν᾽ 2ϐ1ν᾿ %% γμ 2γ1μ 2γ1μ' 2γ1μ’ 2γ1μʼ 2γ1μ᾽ 2γ1μ᾿ %% δλ 2δ1λ 2δ1λ' 2δ1λ’ 2δ1λʼ 2δ1λ᾽ 2δ1λ᾿ %% θμ 2θ1μ 2θ1μ' 2θ1μ’ 2θ1μʼ 2θ1μ᾽ 2θ1μ᾿ 2ϑ1μ 2ϑ1μ' 2ϑ1μ’ 2ϑ1μʼ 2ϑ1μ᾽ 2ϑ1μ᾿ %% πμ 2π1μ 2π1μ' 2π1μ’ 2π1μʼ 2π1μ᾽ 2π1μ᾿ 2ϖ1μ 2ϖ1μ' 2ϖ1μ’ 2ϖ1μʼ 2ϖ1μ᾽ 2ϖ1μ᾿ %% τν 2τ1ν 2τ1ν' 2τ1ν’ 2τ1νʼ 2τ1ν᾽ 2τ1ν᾿ %% φμ 2φ1μ 2φ1μ' 2φ1μ’ 2φ1μʼ 2φ1μ᾽ 2φ1μ᾿ %% χμ 2χ1μ 2χ1μ' 2χ1μ’ 2χ1μʼ 2χ1μ᾽ 2χ1μ᾿ I hope they may be useful, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-04-22 8:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2019-03-24 16:38 optional hyphenation patterns in ancient Greek Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-25 14:09 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-03-25 19:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-26 8:42 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-03-30 14:40 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-03-31 20:18 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2019-03-31 20:55 ` Pablo Rodriguez 2019-04-03 14:14 ` Arthur Reutenauer 2019-04-22 8:29 ` Pablo Rodriguez
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).