* Critical Editions? @ 2021-12-21 9:50 hanneder--- via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2021-12-21 9:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: hanneder I just started switching after long years of typesetting with La-/Omega-/pdfTeX to Context and was exploring the capabilities of the program for typesetting critical editions. So I was wondering whether there is any updated information on how to produce critical editions? Details: I was able to find the article "Ediciones críticas con ConTeXt" (is this in use?) as well as a plan of and a remark concerning critTeXt: "As I learned from a thread on NTG-context from early 2010 we shouldn't expect a dedicated package, but that ConTeXt will eventually incorporate the needed functionalities." What is the status of that? I also found out that for simple editions context already works. For critical editions in my field we need both footnote references based on linenumbers (for prose), but also references to verse number, which can be entered manually. The main problem for me was to find the command \linenote :) % Setup of \linenote \setupnotation[linenote] [alternative=serried,width=broad,distance=.5em,display=no] \setupnote[linenote][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] % \variant as a footnote without reference number \definenote [variant] [footnote] \setupnotation[variant][number=no] \setupnote[variant][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] % Two "environments" for Sanskrit verses, one with, one without linenumbers. % SANSKRIT EDITION linenumbers \definelines[slokaed][][indenting={yes, small, even}, before=\startnarrower\startlinenumbering,after=\stoplinenumbering\stopnarrower] % SANSKRIT EDITION plain (referring to verses) \definelines[slokaedplain][][indenting={yes, small, even}, before=\startnarrower,after=\stopnarrower] With this the code of the edition can be pleasently minimalistic: \startslokaed mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\linenote{dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva G\lohi{pc}{1}} vinivartante tam \linenote{tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe} \stopslokaed \startslokaedplain mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\variant{2c dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva} vinivartante tam \variant{2d tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe (2) \stopslokaedplain So far, so good. Any hints to a more sophisticated solution are highly welcome. (I am a simple TeX user) Thanks Jürgen --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-21 9:50 Critical Editions? hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:51 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2021-12-24 12:07 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-04 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2021-12-21 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: denis.maier Thanks for bringing this topic up again. I'd also be highly interested in this! Denis > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von hanneder-- > - via ntg-context > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Dezember 2021 10:51 > An: ntg-context@ntg.nl > Cc: hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > Betreff: [NTG-context] Critical Editions? > > > I just started switching after long years of typesetting with La-/Omega- > /pdfTeX to Context and was exploring the capabilities of the program for > typesetting critical editions. So I was wondering whether there is any > updated information on how to produce critical editions? > > > Details: > I was able to find the article "Ediciones críticas con ConTeXt" (is this in use?) > as well as a plan of and a remark concerning critTeXt: "As I learned from a > thread on NTG-context from early 2010 we shouldn't expect a dedicated > package, but that ConTeXt will eventually incorporate the needed > functionalities." What is the status of that? > > > I also found out that for simple editions context already works. For critical > editions in my field we need both footnote references based on > linenumbers (for prose), but also references to verse number, which can be > entered manually. The main problem for me was to find the command > \linenote :) > > % Setup of \linenote > \setupnotation[linenote] > [alternative=serried,width=broad,distance=.5em,display=no] > \setupnote[linenote][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] > > % \variant as a footnote without reference number \definenote [variant] > [footnote] \setupnotation[variant][number=no] > \setupnote[variant][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] > > % Two "environments" for Sanskrit verses, one with, one without > linenumbers. > > % SANSKRIT EDITION linenumbers > \definelines[slokaed][][indenting={yes, small, even}, > > before=\startnarrower\startlinenumbering,after=\stoplinenumbering\stopn > arrower] > > % SANSKRIT EDITION plain (referring to verses) > \definelines[slokaedplain][][indenting={yes, small, even}, > before=\startnarrower,after=\stopnarrower] > > With this the code of the edition can be pleasently minimalistic: > > \startslokaed > mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam > yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\linenote{dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva G\lohi{pc}{1}} vinivartante tam > \linenote{tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe} \stopslokaed > > > \startslokaedplain > mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\variant{2c > dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva} vinivartante tam \variant{2d tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe > (2) \stopslokaedplain > > So far, so good. Any hints to a more sophisticated solution are highly > welcome. (I am a simple TeX > user) > Thanks > Jürgen > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > __________________________________________________________ > _________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg- > context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : > https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > __________________________________________________________ > _________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2021-12-21 10:51 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2021-12-21 10:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Denis Maier via ntg-context; +Cc: Henning Hraban Ramm Am 21.12.21 um 11:06 schrieb Denis Maier via ntg-context: > Thanks for bringing this topic up again. I'd also be highly interested in this! Me too as a publisher in the humanities and evangelist for ConTeXt ;) I raised the subject at previous context meetings, but the requirements for criticial editions differ so much that it’s hard to tell what is really needed. So it’s good that Jürgen came up with his requirements and solution attempts. I remember several interesting talks about big edition projects at DANTE conferences and online, also of course Massi’s MEO project, and since I also typeset a German literature magazin called “Kritische Ausgabe” I always wanted to publish a book on the subject of big editions from the editorial and technical view... Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-21 9:50 Critical Editions? hanneder--- via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2021-12-24 12:07 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2021-12-24 16:39 ` Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context 2022-01-04 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2021-12-24 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen, Idris Samawi Hamid On 12/21/2021 10:50 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > > I just started switching after long years of typesetting with > La-/Omega-/pdfTeX to Context and was exploring the capabilities of the > program for typesetting critical editions. So I was > wondering whether there is any updated information on how to produce > critical editions? Maybe Idris has input because he made a partial inventory. There are all kind of mechanisms that support it but one needs to know where to look. > > Details: > I was able to find the article "Ediciones críticas con ConTeXt" (is this > in use?) as well as a > plan of and a remark concerning critTeXt: "As I learned from a thread on > NTG-context from early 2010 we shouldn't expect a dedicated package, but > that ConTeXt will eventually incorporate the needed functionalities." > What is the status of that? a lot related to numbering, referencing and notes and much of that is present so if you can team up with other critical edition users ... i suppose that Idris can send you his onthology-so-far Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-24 12:07 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2021-12-24 16:39 ` Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context @ 2021-12-24 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Bruce Horrocks, Idris Samawi Hamid > On 24 Dec 2021, at 12:07, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > a lot related to numbering, referencing and notes and much of that is present > > so if you can team up with other critical edition users ... i suppose that Idris can send you his onthology-so-far I'm not a user but was intrigued by Juergen's original post. In an effort to educate myself I found this page <https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/examples.html> and thought about how those examples might be set using ConTeXt instead. It didn't take long to realise that Juergen pretty much has it exactly right with his sample code. If it would help I could have a go at setting one or two of those examples and put it onto the Wiki somewhere? The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to be copied? — Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-24 16:39 ` Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-03 10:32 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 9:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: hanneder Dear Bruce and Hans, thanks for you responses and I apologize for the lengthy post, which is just to give you an impression of the current practice in my field (Sanskrit Studies, Indology). For the last two decades edmac and its further developments (now reledmac) have become the standard for critical editions. In my experience the basic requirements for typesetting critical editions were and are: - footnotes have to be formatted in paragraphs - multiple footnotes layers stacked below the critical text must be possible - automatic reference to linenumbers - or: manual references to verse numbers - language specific requirements (more complicated, see below) In the last years new requirements have been added: - some funding institutions in the academic world practically enforce online editions - data have to be made available in TEI xml format This is where a new (LuaTeX) package called ekdosis, currently being developed by Robert Alessi, comes in. It produces a printed version and in the same TeX run an xml file. In an ongoing editorial project we are using this method and it works very well. While the system is ingenious and a great relief (for we do not have to work with xml directly), I am also critical about these new demands, because they force us to use a fairly complex system for sometimes quite simple tasks. I am a Sanskritist, we do not have huge budgets or a large staff, so efficiency is an issue. We also do not have the resources for the long-term care for data such as online editions, but this is another problem. In a previous project, a large edition (30000 verses, 15 years), I tried to use the easiest method. It turned out that edmac was not even necessary and not using it made the main file from which we are working very readable and greatly simplified daily work. Just to give you an impression from our input file: The first two lines in the next paragraph are the Sanskrit text in transcription, \var produces a variant with reference to the verse number and verse quarter (a-d). So no line numbering was even necessary. The \lem produces the sign that divides the critical text and its witnesses from the variants, usually "]", the rest are sigla, like S1, S3 etc. mumukṣuvyavahāroktimayāt prakaraṇād anu \danda athotpattiprakaraṇaṃ mayedaṃ parikathyate \sloka{1.5} \var{5b}{anu \Sseven \Sft \lem \emph{param} \Sone \Sthree \Snine \Ntwelve \Ntw} I used pdflatex and memoir, which has paragraphed footnotes. Here is the relevant section from the preamble: \renewcommand*{\@makefnmark}{} \newfootnoteseries{P} \paragraphfootstyle{P} \renewcommand{\thefootnoteP}{} \footmarkstyleP{} \renewcommand{\@makefnmarkP}{\hskip-2.2pt} \renewcommand{\footnoterule}{} \setlength{\stockheight}{6in} \renewcommand{\linenumberfont}{\normalfont\tiny} \setlength{\linenumbersep}{0pt}\setlength{\linenumberwidth}{0pt}\modulolinenumbers[2] \setlength{\footmarkwidth}{0em} \setlength{\footmarksep}{-\footmarkwidth} \addtolength{\skip\footins}{2mm plus 1mm} \leftskip=.2cm % indent of the verses \def\var#1#2{\footnoteP{#1 #2}} % footnotes This is what I compiled from different examples (I am not a programmer), but it worked -- the edition has produced quite a few volumes and is almost finished! Working with this file was easy, because one could easily read the text. The usual edmac code would have required us to identify an lemma with \edtext and then write the variant directly into the text. This may not matter in the case of few variants, but with many variants the text is quickly rendered unreadable -- even with all tricks to make footnotes invisible (I use folding in emacs). The following would be a single example verse (32 syllables, same size as the one quoted above), encoded in ekdosis and with lots of manuscripts: \begin{tlg}[hp16][] \tl{ \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{manthāna} \rdg[type=stemmaerror,wit={B2}]{\unm śrīmanthāna} % stemma error \rdg[wit={C4,L1,N5}]{manthāra} \rdg[wit={N13,Tü,V1,V22,Vu}]{manthāno\skp{-}} \rdg[wit={J2}]{mandāra}}% \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{bhairavo} \rdg[wit={N20}]{mairavo} \rdg[wit={N23}]{bhairavā} \rdg[wit={V26}]{bhaivarau}} \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{yogī} \rdg[wit={J2}]{jogī} \rdg[wit={C1}]{siddha} \rdg[wit={V5}]{siddhe} \rdg[wit={J15,V8}]{yogi}} \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={B1,B3,C2,C3,C4pc,C6,N1,J10,J13,J17,N6,N10,N13,N17,Tü,V4,V11,V22,V26}]{śuddha} %stemma point \rdg[wit={J15}]{śruddha} \rdg[wit={B2,N19,V6}]{siddho\skp{-}} \rdg[wit={C1,V5}]{yogī} %s \rdg[wit={V1}]{suddha} \rdg[wit={J1,J3,J14,N2,N16}]{siddhi} \rdg[wit={J2}]{sandhi} \rdg[wit={N20}]{viddha} \rdg[wit={N22}]{sidha} \rdg[wit={N24}]{siddhar\skp{-}} \rdg[wit={V8}]{suddho}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={buddhaś ca}]{buddha\skp{ś-ca}} \rdg[wit={J2}]{tudhiś ca} \rdg[wit={C7}]{pādaś ca} \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,J1,J3,N3,N16,N20,V2,V3,V26}]{buddhiś ca}%stemma point \rdg[wit={N22}]{nudhaś ca} \rdg[wit={N24}]{cuddhaś ca} }\skm{ś-ca} \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{kanthaḍiḥ} \rdg[wit={B1}]{kanthariḥ} \rdg[wit={B2,N23}]{kanthaḍīḥ} \rdg[wit={C1,C6,J15,N10,N12,N20,N21,V6}]{kanthaḍī} \rdg[wit={C3}]{kanthaṭī} \rdg[wit={C4ac}]{kukuḍiḥ} \rdg[wit={V1,J10pc,N3}]{kanthalī} \rdg[wit={J10ac}]{kanhalī} \rdg[wit={N5}]{kaṃtharī} \rdg[wit={J2}]{kanthaḍi} \rdg[wit={J17,N6,N17,N22,V4,V11}]{kandalī} % \rdg[wit={V3}]{kanthaḍīṃ} \rdg[wit={J1}]{kanthaviḥ} \rdg[wit={V8}]{kandali} \rdg[wit={N13}]{kaṃpaṭiḥ} \rdg[wit={Tü}]{kaṃpaḍiḥ} \rdg[wit={M1}]{paddhatiḥ} \rdg[wit={V26}]{kānuṭiḥ} }/}\\ \tl{ \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{pauraṇṭakaḥ } \rdg[wit={N22}]{pauraṃṭaka} \rdg[wit={N5}]{pauraṃṭhakaḥ } % group according to alphabetical order? \rdg[wit={B1,N1,N10,V6}]{pauraṇḍakaḥ } \rdg[wit={V11}]{pauraṇḍakaṃ } \rdg[wit={B2}]{pauraṇḍaṅka} \rdg[wit={C3}]{pauraṃṭaṃka} \rdg[wit={N16,N24}]{kauraṇṭakaḥ } \rdg[wit={N12}]{kauraṃṭaka} \rdg[wit={J14,V26}]{kauraṇḍakaḥ } \rdg[wit={J2}]{koraṃṭaka} \rdg[wit={J4,N21,N23}]{koraṃtakaḥ } \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,N13,Tü,V22,Vu}]{koraṃṭakaḥ }% stemma point? \rdg[wit={N2}]{koraṇṭīkaḥ } \rdg[wit={N3}]{goraṃṭaka} \rdg[wit={M1}]{ghoraṃṭakaḥ } \rdg[wit={V8}]{\unm kāhapauraṇṭaka} \rdg[wit={Vu}]{koraṃḍīka} \rdg[wit={V2}]{kauraṃḍīkaḥ } \rdg[wit={N20}]{paura...kaḥ } %illeg \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{surānandaḥ } \rdg[wit={B2,N12}]{sarānanda} \rdg[wit={C2,J2,N2,N3,V3,N22,V2}]{surānanda} \rdg[wit={N24}]{śurānaṃdaḥ } \rdg[wit={J4}]{sarānandaḥ } \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} \rdg[wit={V1,J1,J2,N16,N24}]{siddhi} \rdg[wit={V8}]{siddhā} \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={pādaś}]{pāda\skp{ś-ca}} \rdg[wit={N22}]{pāda} \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={ca}]{\skm{ś-ca}} \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}} \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{carpaṭiḥ} \rdg[wit={B1,B2,N2,N17,N23,V3,V4}]{carppaṭiḥ} \rdg[wit={C3,J17,V6}]{carppaṭī} \rdg[wit={C4ac,C6,C7,V1,V2}]{carpaṭī} \rdg[wit={C4pc,J1,J15,N3,V8,N24}]{carpaṭi} \rdg[wit={J2}]{tarpaṭi} \rdg[wit={M1}]{parpaṭiḥ} \rdg[wit={N5}]{carpaṭīḥ} \rdg[wit={N11,V11}]{carpaṭaḥ} \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} %\note*{1.6cd is omitted in C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19.} }//} \end{tlg} It is obvious that it is not possible to read the text anymore, a single verse does not even fit the screen. For editing and selecting the variants one has to produce a formatted pdf version. --------- Another disadvantage of the edmac style approach is that it expects European languages. Scripts are no more the main problem, but the interaction of different scripts, word divisions and other minute details make daily life of the editor complicated. I hope the next example is more or less intelligible. We have a Sanskrit text passage that reads in transcription as: samyaggomaya The word consists of two elements, samyag and gomaya, but in the Indian script that we use for the critical text the "ggo" is a ligature. So in giving variants for both words, we cannot just separate samyag and gomaya, for then the ligature gg is not printed correctly. We also want to quote the correct word samyag in the apparatus (which is in roman!). Now, to make things more complicated the xml text should contain the correct word division, so we have to split samyag and gomaya. Thus, we now have to write the first "g" twice, first as \skp{g}, which explains to the xml converter that this is the logical position of the g (in the word samyag), and \skm{g}, which tells TeX to print this together with the next g as the ligature gg. Because of this mess, we need a modified lemma, "alt={gomaya}" so that the apparatus comes out correctly. \app{\lem[alt={samyag},wit={ceteri}]{samya\skp{g-}} \rdg[wit={B2}]{samyaṃ} \rdg[wit={J4}]{sāṃyaṃ} \rdg[wit={J13,V1,N2,N19,V11}]{samyak} \rdg[wit={N3}]{saṃ} \rdg[wit={V8}]{liptaṃ} \rdg[wit={N21}]{ramyaṃ} \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} }% \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}, alt={gomaya}]{\skm{g-}gomaya} \rdg[wit={C4,C6,V3,V8,N13,N19,N21,N23,Tü,V4,V11}]{gomaya} \rdg[wit={V26}]{jogamaya} \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} } Please ignore the details, but perhaps you get my point. It is all becoming very ingenious and it is a great relief that all this can be automatized. But it is also increasingly complicated to work with and slowing down editing considerably. This is why I was curious to see about the status of critical edition in ConTeXt. I was hoping for something that can be kept simple. > The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions > for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to > be copied? Absolutely. It would be great to see a Context solution for this. Greetings Jürgen ----- Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> --------- Datum: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 16:39:12 +0000 Von: Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions? An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> Cc: Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> >> On 24 Dec 2021, at 12:07, Hans Hagen via ntg-context >> <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: >> >> a lot related to numbering, referencing and notes and much of that >> is present >> >> so if you can team up with other critical edition users ... i >> suppose that Idris can send you his onthology-so-far > > I'm not a user but was intrigued by Juergen's original post. In an > effort to educate myself I found this page > <https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/examples.html> and thought about > how those examples might be set using ConTeXt instead. It didn't > take long to realise that Juergen pretty much has it exactly right > with his sample code. > > If it would help I could have a go at setting one or two of those > examples and put it onto the Wiki somewhere? > > The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions > for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to > be copied? > > — > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire, UK > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ----- Ende der Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> ----- --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 10:32 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-03 13:37 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 10:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 387 bytes --] I remember some discussions years ago with Pablo Rodriguez on this topic, and I have some previous discussions with a reledmac LaTeX French expert, about critical edition in the Medieval and/or Latin/Ancient Greek studies … Maybe Pablo has preserved some CTX samples ? I need to dig in my ‘archeological’ ConTeXt MWE ! But here is what would be clever to achieve with Context/Luame [-- Attachment #2: ConTeXt_FootNote-CriticusApparatus_2Columns_Pablo-Hans-03.tex --] [-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 4109 bytes --] \setuplanguage[agr][patterns={agr, la}] \mainlanguage[agr] % Greek as main language \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [serif] [GFS Didot] [preset=range:greek] \definefontfamily [mainface] [serif] [TeX Gyre Pagella] \setuplayout[header=2cm, footer=2cm] % \definemixedcolumns [columns] [balance=yes, blank={line,fixed}] \setupnotes[compress=yes] \setupnotations[alternative=serried] \definelinenote[aNote] \definelinenote[bNote][n=2] \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] \definelinenote[dNote][paragraph=yes] \def\ANote#1#2{#1\aNote{#1] #2}} \def\BNote#1#2{#1\bNote{#1] #2}} \def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}} \def\DNote#1#2{#1\dNote{#1] #2}} \setupalign[hz, hanging] \setuptolerance[strict] \setuplinenumbering[step=5, location=inright, distance=1ex, align=center, width=0.5em] \definemargindata[Stephanus][location=inner, distance=2ex, style=\em] \setupbodyfont[mainface, 7.8pt] \starttext \start\fr % some text in French Définir un apparat critique et le mettre en page avec un traitement de texte courant est un véritable casse-tête. \type{LaTeX} et \type{ConTeXt} offrent des outils d'automatisation encore assez mal connus dans la communauté des éditeurs, notamment dans l'édition savante, pour la collation et la comparaison de textes médiévaux.\par \stop % \unexpanded\def\setupcolumns{\setupmixedcolumns[columns]} \dorecurse{2}{\startcolumns[n=2, balance=yes]} \Stephanus{1a} Ὁμώνυμα λέγεται ὧν ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ τὸ γεγραμμένον· τούτων γὰρ ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος· ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, ἴδιον ἑκατέρου λόγον ἀποδώσει.\par συνώνυμα δὲ λέγεται ὧν τό τε ὄνομα κοινὸν καὶ ὁ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ὁ αὐτός, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ ὁ βοῦς• τούτων γὰρ ἑκάτερον κοινῷ ὀνόματι προσαγορεύεται ζῷον, καὶ ὁ λόγος δὲ τῆς οὐσίας ὁ αὐτός• ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τὸν ἑκατέρου λόγον τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον ἀποδώσει.\par παρώνυμα δὲ λέγεται ὅσα ἀπό τινος διαφέροντα τῇ πτώσει τὴν κατὰ τοὔνομα προσηγορίαν ἔχει, οἷον ἀπὸ τῆς γραμματικῆς ὁ γραμματικὸς καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς ἀνδρείας ὁ ἀνδρεῖος. \column \startlinenumbering[continue] Aequivoca dicuntur quorum \CNote{nomen}{première note} solum commune est, secundum nomen vero \ANote{substantiae}{seconde note} \ANote{ratio}{seconde note} diversa, ut animal \DNote{homo}{troisième note} et quod pingitur. Horum enim solum nomen commune est, secundum nomen vero substantiae ratio diversa; si enim quis assignet quid est utrique eorum quo sint animalia, propriam assignabit utriusque rationem.\par Univoca vero dicuntur quorum et nomen\CNote{nomen}{première note} commune est et secundum nomen eadem substantiae\ANote{substantiae}{seconde note} ratio\ANote{ratio}{seconde note}, ut animal homo atque bos. Communi enim nomine utrique animalia nuncupantur, et est ratio substantiae eadem; si quis enim assignet utriusque rationem, quid utrique sit quo sint animalia, eandem assignabit rationem.\par Denominativa vero dicuntur quaecumque ab aliquo, solo differentia casu, secundum nomen habent appellationem, ut a grammatica grammaticus et a fortitudine fortis. \stoplinenumbering \stopcolumns} \stoptext [-- Attachment #3: LaTeX-reledmac_footnote_spacing.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 18219 bytes --] [-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 14286 bytes --] tatex (see attached files) > Le 3 janv. 2022 à 10:43, hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> a écrit : > > > Dear Bruce and Hans, > > thanks for you responses and I apologize for the lengthy post, which is just to give you an > impression of the current practice in my field (Sanskrit Studies, Indology). > > For the last two decades edmac and its further developments (now reledmac) have become the standard > for critical editions. In my experience the basic requirements for typesetting critical editions > were and are: > > - footnotes have to be formatted in paragraphs > - multiple footnotes layers stacked below the critical text must be possible > - automatic reference to linenumbers > - or: manual references to verse numbers > - language specific requirements (more complicated, see below) > > In the last years new requirements have been added: > > - some funding institutions in the academic world practically enforce online editions > - data have to be made available in TEI xml format > > This is where a new (LuaTeX) package called ekdosis, currently being developed by Robert Alessi, > comes in. It produces a printed version and in the same TeX run an xml file. In an ongoing > editorial project we are using this method and it works very well. While the system is ingenious > and a great relief (for we do not have to work with xml directly), I am also critical about these > new demands, because they force us to use a fairly complex system for sometimes quite simple tasks. > I am a Sanskritist, we do not have huge budgets or a large staff, so efficiency is an issue. We > also do not have the resources for the long-term care for data such as online editions, but this is > another problem. > > In a previous project, a large edition (30000 verses, 15 years), I tried to use the easiest > method. It turned out that edmac was not even necessary and not using it made the main file from > which we are working very readable and greatly simplified daily work. Just to give you an > impression from our input file: The first two lines in the next paragraph are the Sanskrit text in > transcription, \var produces a variant with reference to the verse number and verse quarter > (a-d). So no line numbering was even necessary. The \lem produces the sign that divides the > critical text and its witnesses from the variants, usually "]", the rest are sigla, like S1, S3 > etc. > > mumukṣuvyavahāroktimayāt prakaraṇād anu \danda > athotpattiprakaraṇaṃ mayedaṃ parikathyate \sloka{1.5} > \var{5b}{anu \Sseven \Sft \lem \emph{param} \Sone \Sthree \Snine \Ntwelve \Ntw} > > I used pdflatex and memoir, which has paragraphed footnotes. Here is the relevant section from the > preamble: > > \renewcommand*{\@makefnmark}{} > \newfootnoteseries{P} > \paragraphfootstyle{P} > \renewcommand{\thefootnoteP}{} > \footmarkstyleP{} > \renewcommand{\@makefnmarkP}{\hskip-2.2pt} > \renewcommand{\footnoterule}{} > \setlength{\stockheight}{6in} > \renewcommand{\linenumberfont}{\normalfont\tiny} > \setlength{\linenumbersep}{0pt}\setlength{\linenumberwidth}{0pt}\modulolinenumbers[2] > \setlength{\footmarkwidth}{0em} > \setlength{\footmarksep}{-\footmarkwidth} > \addtolength{\skip\footins}{2mm plus 1mm} > \leftskip=.2cm % indent of the verses > \def\var#1#2{\footnoteP{#1 #2}} % footnotes > > > This is what I compiled from different examples (I am not a programmer), but it worked -- the > edition has produced quite a few volumes and is almost finished! > > Working with this file was easy, because one could easily read the text. The usual edmac code > would have required us to identify an lemma with \edtext and then write the variant directly into > the text. This may not matter in the case of few variants, but with many variants the text is > quickly rendered unreadable -- even with all tricks to make footnotes invisible (I use folding in > emacs). The following would be a single example verse (32 syllables, same size as the one quoted > above), encoded in ekdosis and with lots of manuscripts: > > \begin{tlg}[hp16][] > \tl{ > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{manthāna} > \rdg[type=stemmaerror,wit={B2}]{\unm śrīmanthāna} % stemma error > \rdg[wit={C4,L1,N5}]{manthāra} > \rdg[wit={N13,Tü,V1,V22,Vu}]{manthāno\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{mandāra}}% > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{bhairavo} > \rdg[wit={N20}]{mairavo} > \rdg[wit={N23}]{bhairavā} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{bhaivarau}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{yogī} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{jogī} > \rdg[wit={C1}]{siddha} > \rdg[wit={V5}]{siddhe} > \rdg[wit={J15,V8}]{yogi}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={B1,B3,C2,C3,C4pc,C6,N1,J10,J13,J17,N6,N10,N13,N17,Tü,V4,V11,V22,V26}]{śuddha} %stemma point > \rdg[wit={J15}]{śruddha} > \rdg[wit={B2,N19,V6}]{siddho\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={C1,V5}]{yogī} %s > \rdg[wit={V1}]{suddha} > \rdg[wit={J1,J3,J14,N2,N16}]{siddhi} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{sandhi} > \rdg[wit={N20}]{viddha} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{sidha} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{siddhar\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{suddho}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={buddhaś ca}]{buddha\skp{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{tudhiś ca} > \rdg[wit={C7}]{pādaś ca} > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,J1,J3,N3,N16,N20,V2,V3,V26}]{buddhiś ca}%stemma point > \rdg[wit={N22}]{nudhaś ca} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{cuddhaś ca} > }\skm{ś-ca} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{kanthaḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={B1}]{kanthariḥ} > \rdg[wit={B2,N23}]{kanthaḍīḥ} > \rdg[wit={C1,C6,J15,N10,N12,N20,N21,V6}]{kanthaḍī} > \rdg[wit={C3}]{kanthaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4ac}]{kukuḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={V1,J10pc,N3}]{kanthalī} > \rdg[wit={J10ac}]{kanhalī} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{kaṃtharī} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{kanthaḍi} > \rdg[wit={J17,N6,N17,N22,V4,V11}]{kandalī} % > \rdg[wit={V3}]{kanthaḍīṃ} > \rdg[wit={J1}]{kanthaviḥ} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{kandali} > \rdg[wit={N13}]{kaṃpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={Tü}]{kaṃpaḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{paddhatiḥ} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{kānuṭiḥ} > }/}\\ > \tl{ > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{pauraṇṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N22}]{pauraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{pauraṃṭhakaḥ } % group according to alphabetical order? > \rdg[wit={B1,N1,N10,V6}]{pauraṇḍakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={V11}]{pauraṇḍakaṃ } > \rdg[wit={B2}]{pauraṇḍaṅka} > \rdg[wit={C3}]{pauraṃṭaṃka} > \rdg[wit={N16,N24}]{kauraṇṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N12}]{kauraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={J14,V26}]{kauraṇḍakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={J2}]{koraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={J4,N21,N23}]{koraṃtakaḥ } > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,N13,Tü,V22,Vu}]{koraṃṭakaḥ }% stemma point? > \rdg[wit={N2}]{koraṇṭīkaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N3}]{goraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{ghoraṃṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={V8}]{\unm kāhapauraṇṭaka} > \rdg[wit={Vu}]{koraṃḍīka} > \rdg[wit={V2}]{kauraṃḍīkaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N20}]{paura...kaḥ } %illeg > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} > }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{surānandaḥ } > \rdg[wit={B2,N12}]{sarānanda} > \rdg[wit={C2,J2,N2,N3,V3,N22,V2}]{surānanda} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{śurānaṃdaḥ } > \rdg[wit={J4}]{sarānandaḥ } > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} > }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} > \rdg[wit={V1,J1,J2,N16,N24}]{siddhi} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{siddhā} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={pādaś}]{pāda\skp{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{pāda} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={ca}]{\skm{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{carpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={B1,B2,N2,N17,N23,V3,V4}]{carppaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={C3,J17,V6}]{carppaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4ac,C6,C7,V1,V2}]{carpaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4pc,J1,J15,N3,V8,N24}]{carpaṭi} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{tarpaṭi} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{parpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{carpaṭīḥ} > \rdg[wit={N11,V11}]{carpaṭaḥ} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, quantity=1}}}} > %\note*{1.6cd is omitted in C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19.} > }//} > \end{tlg} > > It is obvious that it is not possible to read the text anymore, a single verse does not even fit the screen. For > editing and selecting the variants one has to produce a formatted pdf version. > > --------- > > Another disadvantage of the edmac style approach is that it expects European languages. Scripts are > no more the main problem, but the interaction of different scripts, word divisions and other minute > details make daily life of the editor complicated. > > I hope the next example is more or less intelligible. > We have a Sanskrit text passage that reads in transcription as: > > samyaggomaya > > The word consists of two elements, samyag and gomaya, but in the Indian script that we use for the > critical text the "ggo" is a ligature. So in giving variants for both words, we cannot just > separate samyag and gomaya, for then the ligature gg is not printed correctly. We also want to > quote the correct word samyag in the apparatus (which is in roman!). Now, to make things more > complicated the xml text should contain the correct word division, so we have to split samyag and > gomaya. Thus, we now have to write the first "g" twice, first as \skp{g}, which explains to the xml > converter that this is the logical position of the g (in the word samyag), and \skm{g}, which tells > TeX to print this together with the next g as the ligature gg. Because of this mess, we need a > modified lemma, "alt={gomaya}" so that the apparatus comes out correctly. > > \app{\lem[alt={samyag},wit={ceteri}]{samya\skp{g-}} > \rdg[wit={B2}]{samyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={J4}]{sāṃyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={J13,V1,N2,N19,V11}]{samyak} > \rdg[wit={N3}]{saṃ} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{liptaṃ} > \rdg[wit={N21}]{ramyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} > }% > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}, alt={gomaya}]{\skm{g-}gomaya} > \rdg[wit={C4,C6,V3,V8,N13,N19,N21,N23,Tü,V4,V11}]{gomaya} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{jogamaya} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} > } > > Please ignore the details, but perhaps you get my point. It is all becoming very ingenious and it > is a great relief that all this can be automatized. But it is also increasingly complicated to work > with and slowing down editing considerably. > > This is why I was curious to see about the status of critical edition in ConTeXt. I was hoping for > something that can be kept simple. > > >> The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to be copied? > > Absolutely. It would be great to see a Context solution for this. > > Greetings > Jürgen > > > > > > > > ----- Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> --------- > Datum: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 16:39:12 +0000 > Von: Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions? > An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> > > >>> On 24 Dec 2021, at 12:07, Hans Hagen via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: >>> >>> a lot related to numbering, referencing and notes and much of that is present >>> >>> so if you can team up with other critical edition users ... i suppose that Idris can send you his onthology-so-far >> >> I'm not a user but was intrigued by Juergen's original post. In an effort to educate myself I found this page <https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/examples.html> and thought about how those examples might be set using ConTeXt instead. It didn't take long to realise that Juergen pretty much has it exactly right with his sample code. >> >> If it would help I could have a go at setting one or two of those examples and put it onto the Wiki somewhere? >> >> The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to be copied? >> >> — >> Bruce Horrocks >> Hampshire, UK >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > ----- Ende der Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> ----- > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ [-- Attachment #5: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-03 10:32 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 13:37 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-03 20:46 ` STIX2 font issues with freshly installed FMTX Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context 2022-01-04 12:38 ` Critical Editions? Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 2022-01-04 12:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 3 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 16138 bytes --] Hello dear "critical edition" scholars ! I do remember who was the French geek on reledmac and reledpar (LaTeX) : he is Maieul Rouquette (please read this page https://github.com/maieul/ledmac). We (Pablo Rodriguez mainly and I) have tried few years ago to somehow follow a possible path within CTX in order to clarify what was possible with critical edition, which means : 1) a main text with 2) several levels of footnotes showing different version of this text (mainly differences or alterations of the main text, mainly in words occurences, specially within Medieval copies of the same text). It may be useful to have the original text (say : Ancient Greek or whatever) on the left column, with the translation on the right column (say : Latin or whatever), and the 'criticus apparatus' in the different level of footnotes. This kind of page suppose to have under the hand (zuhandenheit or vorhandenheit ?) some tools/commands in order to deal with the text extension in the column at right ... Pablo has proposed a MWE, but since I made previously a mistake among files I have send to the list, I am going back with a MWE as attached file (I send the *.tex & *.pdf files), produced under mtx-context | current version: 2020.01.30 (!). I hope this may give some help to those who want to clarify how CTX/LMTX may be useful in such topic. JP Le 03/01/2022 à 10:43, hanneder--- via ntg-context a écrit : > > Dear Bruce and Hans, > > thanks for you responses and I apologize for the lengthy post, which > is just to give you an > impression of the current practice in my field (Sanskrit Studies, > Indology). > > For the last two decades edmac and its further developments (now > reledmac) have become the standard > for critical editions. In my experience the basic requirements for > typesetting critical editions > were and are: > > - footnotes have to be formatted in paragraphs > - multiple footnotes layers stacked below the critical text must be > possible > - automatic reference to linenumbers > - or: manual references to verse numbers > - language specific requirements (more complicated, see below) > > In the last years new requirements have been added: > > - some funding institutions in the academic world practically enforce > online editions > - data have to be made available in TEI xml format > > This is where a new (LuaTeX) package called ekdosis, currently being > developed by Robert Alessi, > comes in. It produces a printed version and in the same TeX run an xml > file. In an ongoing > editorial project we are using this method and it works very well. > While the system is ingenious > and a great relief (for we do not have to work with xml directly), I > am also critical about these > new demands, because they force us to use a fairly complex system for > sometimes quite simple tasks. > I am a Sanskritist, we do not have huge budgets or a large staff, so > efficiency is an issue. We > also do not have the resources for the long-term care for data such as > online editions, but this is > another problem. > > In a previous project, a large edition (30000 verses, 15 years), I > tried to use the easiest > method. It turned out that edmac was not even necessary and not using > it made the main file from > which we are working very readable and greatly simplified daily work. > Just to give you an > impression from our input file: The first two lines in the next > paragraph are the Sanskrit text in > transcription, \var produces a variant with reference to the verse > number and verse quarter > (a-d). So no line numbering was even necessary. The \lem produces the > sign that divides the > critical text and its witnesses from the variants, usually "]", the > rest are sigla, like S1, S3 > etc. > > mumukṣuvyavahāroktimayāt prakaraṇād anu \danda > athotpattiprakaraṇaṃ mayedaṃ parikathyate \sloka{1.5} > \var{5b}{anu \Sseven \Sft \lem \emph{param} \Sone \Sthree \Snine > \Ntwelve \Ntw} > > I used pdflatex and memoir, which has paragraphed footnotes. Here is > the relevant section from the > preamble: > > \renewcommand*{\@makefnmark}{} > \newfootnoteseries{P} > \paragraphfootstyle{P} > \renewcommand{\thefootnoteP}{} > \footmarkstyleP{} > \renewcommand{\@makefnmarkP}{\hskip-2.2pt} > \renewcommand{\footnoterule}{} > \setlength{\stockheight}{6in} > \renewcommand{\linenumberfont}{\normalfont\tiny} > \setlength{\linenumbersep}{0pt}\setlength{\linenumberwidth}{0pt}\modulolinenumbers[2] > > \setlength{\footmarkwidth}{0em} > \setlength{\footmarksep}{-\footmarkwidth} > \addtolength{\skip\footins}{2mm plus 1mm} > \leftskip=.2cm % indent of the verses > \def\var#1#2{\footnoteP{#1 #2}} % footnotes > > > This is what I compiled from different examples (I am not a > programmer), but it worked -- the > edition has produced quite a few volumes and is almost finished! > > Working with this file was easy, because one could easily read the > text. The usual edmac code > would have required us to identify an lemma with \edtext and then > write the variant directly into > the text. This may not matter in the case of few variants, but with > many variants the text is > quickly rendered unreadable -- even with all tricks to make footnotes > invisible (I use folding in > emacs). The following would be a single example verse (32 syllables, > same size as the one quoted > above), encoded in ekdosis and with lots of manuscripts: > > \begin{tlg}[hp16][] > \tl{ > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{manthāna} > \rdg[type=stemmaerror,wit={B2}]{\unm śrīmanthāna} % stemma error > \rdg[wit={C4,L1,N5}]{manthāra} > \rdg[wit={N13,Tü,V1,V22,Vu}]{manthāno\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{mandāra}}% > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{bhairavo} > \rdg[wit={N20}]{mairavo} > \rdg[wit={N23}]{bhairavā} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{bhaivarau}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{yogī} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{jogī} > \rdg[wit={C1}]{siddha} > \rdg[wit={V5}]{siddhe} > \rdg[wit={J15,V8}]{yogi}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={B1,B3,C2,C3,C4pc,C6,N1,J10,J13,J17,N6,N10,N13,N17,Tü,V4,V11,V22,V26}]{śuddha} > %stemma point > \rdg[wit={J15}]{śruddha} > \rdg[wit={B2,N19,V6}]{siddho\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={C1,V5}]{yogī} %s > \rdg[wit={V1}]{suddha} > \rdg[wit={J1,J3,J14,N2,N16}]{siddhi} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{sandhi} > \rdg[wit={N20}]{viddha} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{sidha} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{siddhar\skp{-}} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{suddho}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={buddhaś > ca}]{buddha\skp{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{tudhiś ca} > \rdg[wit={C7}]{pādaś ca} > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,J1,J3,N3,N16,N20,V2,V3,V26}]{buddhiś > ca}%stemma point > \rdg[wit={N22}]{nudhaś ca} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{cuddhaś ca} > }\skm{ś-ca} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{kanthaḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={B1}]{kanthariḥ} > \rdg[wit={B2,N23}]{kanthaḍīḥ} > \rdg[wit={C1,C6,J15,N10,N12,N20,N21,V6}]{kanthaḍī} > \rdg[wit={C3}]{kanthaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4ac}]{kukuḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={V1,J10pc,N3}]{kanthalī} > \rdg[wit={J10ac}]{kanhalī} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{kaṃtharī} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{kanthaḍi} > \rdg[wit={J17,N6,N17,N22,V4,V11}]{kandalī} % > \rdg[wit={V3}]{kanthaḍīṃ} > \rdg[wit={J1}]{kanthaviḥ} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{kandali} > \rdg[wit={N13}]{kaṃpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={Tü}]{kaṃpaḍiḥ} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{paddhatiḥ} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{kānuṭiḥ} > }/}\\ > \tl{ > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{pauraṇṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N22}]{pauraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{pauraṃṭhakaḥ } % group according to alphabetical > order? > \rdg[wit={B1,N1,N10,V6}]{pauraṇḍakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={V11}]{pauraṇḍakaṃ } > \rdg[wit={B2}]{pauraṇḍaṅka} > \rdg[wit={C3}]{pauraṃṭaṃka} > \rdg[wit={N16,N24}]{kauraṇṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N12}]{kauraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={J14,V26}]{kauraṇḍakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={J2}]{koraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={J4,N21,N23}]{koraṃtakaḥ } > \rdg[type=stemmapoint,wit={C6,N13,Tü,V22,Vu}]{koraṃṭakaḥ }% > stemma point? > \rdg[wit={N2}]{koraṇṭīkaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N3}]{goraṃṭaka} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{ghoraṃṭakaḥ } > \rdg[wit={V8}]{\unm kāhapauraṇṭaka} > \rdg[wit={Vu}]{koraṃḍīka} > \rdg[wit={V2}]{kauraṃḍīkaḥ } > \rdg[wit={N20}]{paura...kaḥ } %illeg > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}} > }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{surānandaḥ } > \rdg[wit={B2,N12}]{sarānanda} > \rdg[wit={C2,J2,N2,N3,V3,N22,V2}]{surānanda} > \rdg[wit={N24}]{śurānaṃdaḥ } > \rdg[wit={J4}]{sarānandaḥ } > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}} > }\app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{siddha} > \rdg[wit={V1,J1,J2,N16,N24}]{siddhi} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{siddhā} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={pādaś}]{pāda\skp{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{pāda} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}}}\app{\lem[wit={ceteri},alt={ca}]{\skm{ś-ca}} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}}} > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}]{carpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={B1,B2,N2,N17,N23,V3,V4}]{carppaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={C3,J17,V6}]{carppaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4ac,C6,C7,V1,V2}]{carpaṭī} > \rdg[wit={C4pc,J1,J15,N3,V8,N24}]{carpaṭi} > \rdg[wit={J2}]{tarpaṭi} > \rdg[wit={M1}]{parpaṭiḥ} > \rdg[wit={N5}]{carpaṭīḥ} > \rdg[wit={N11,V11}]{carpaṭaḥ} > \rdg[wit={C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word, > quantity=1}}}} > %\note*{1.6cd is omitted in C1,J3,L1,N11,V5,V19.} > }//} > \end{tlg} > > It is obvious that it is not possible to read the text anymore, a > single verse does not even fit the screen. For > editing and selecting the variants one has to produce a formatted pdf > version. > > --------- > > Another disadvantage of the edmac style approach is that it expects > European languages. Scripts are > no more the main problem, but the interaction of different scripts, > word divisions and other minute > details make daily life of the editor complicated. > > I hope the next example is more or less intelligible. > We have a Sanskrit text passage that reads in transcription as: > > samyaggomaya > > The word consists of two elements, samyag and gomaya, but in the > Indian script that we use for the > critical text the "ggo" is a ligature. So in giving variants for both > words, we cannot just > separate samyag and gomaya, for then the ligature gg is not printed > correctly. We also want to > quote the correct word samyag in the apparatus (which is in roman!). > Now, to make things more > complicated the xml text should contain the correct word division, so > we have to split samyag and > gomaya. Thus, we now have to write the first "g" twice, first as > \skp{g}, which explains to the xml > converter that this is the logical position of the g (in the word > samyag), and \skm{g}, which tells > TeX to print this together with the next g as the ligature gg. Because > of this mess, we need a > modified lemma, "alt={gomaya}" so that the apparatus comes out correctly. > > \app{\lem[alt={samyag},wit={ceteri}]{samya\skp{g-}} > \rdg[wit={B2}]{samyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={J4}]{sāṃyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={J13,V1,N2,N19,V11}]{samyak} > \rdg[wit={N3}]{saṃ} > \rdg[wit={V8}]{liptaṃ} > \rdg[wit={N21}]{ramyaṃ} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} > }% > \app{\lem[wit={ceteri}, alt={gomaya}]{\skm{g-}gomaya} > \rdg[wit={C4,C6,V3,V8,N13,N19,N21,N23,Tü,V4,V11}]{gomaya} > \rdg[wit={V26}]{jogamaya} > \rdg[wit={N22}]{{\supplied{\gap{reason=lost,unit=word,quantity=1}}}} > } > > Please ignore the details, but perhaps you get my point. It is all > becoming very ingenious and it > is a great relief that all this can be automatized. But it is also > increasingly complicated to work > with and slowing down editing considerably. > > This is why I was curious to see about the status of critical edition > in ConTeXt. I was hoping for > something that can be kept simple. > > >> The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions >> for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to >> be copied? > > Absolutely. It would be great to see a Context solution for this. > > Greetings > Jürgen > > > > > > > > ----- Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context > <ntg-context@ntg.nl> --------- > Datum: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 16:39:12 +0000 > Von: Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions? > An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>, Idris Samawi Hamid > <ishamid@colostate.edu> > > >>> On 24 Dec 2021, at 12:07, Hans Hagen via ntg-context >>> <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: >>> >>> a lot related to numbering, referencing and notes and much of that >>> is present >>> >>> so if you can team up with other critical edition users ... i >>> suppose that Idris can send you his onthology-so-far >> >> I'm not a user but was intrigued by Juergen's original post. In an >> effort to educate myself I found this page >> <https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/examples.html> and thought about how >> those examples might be set using ConTeXt instead. It didn't take >> long to realise that Juergen pretty much has it exactly right with >> his sample code. >> >> If it would help I could have a go at setting one or two of those >> examples and put it onto the Wiki somewhere? >> >> The only real question I have to those who produce critical editions >> for real: are the examples I've linked to useful and appropriate to >> be copied? >> >> — >> Bruce Horrocks >> Hampshire, UK >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an >> entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > ----- Ende der Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context > <ntg-context@ntg.nl> ----- > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton [-- Attachment #2: ConTeXt_Test_FooteNote-ComplexMedieval.tex --] [-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 2716 bytes --] % Le script suivant nécessite différents tests avec une manipulation des paramètres, afin de préciser ce qui convient le mieux à votre travail d'édition. Ce script offre le schéma de plusieurs possibilités d'affichage des notes en bas de page avec diverses possibilités simultanées. On peut affiner encore, en ajoutant d'autres commandes stipulant les marges, les en-têtes, le numéro des pages, etc. \mainlanguage[la] % Définition du latin comme langue principale du document. \setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic] \setuplayout[header=2cm, footer=2cm] % Paramétrage de la page; \setuplinenumbering[step=2] % La sortie PDF comportera une numérotation de 5 en 5; on peut régler sur 1 (ou 10). \setupnotations[alternative=serried] % On définit le caractère séquentiel des notes. \definelinenote[aNote] % Plusieurs manières d'afficher les notes ici, notamment en une ou en plusieurs colonnes (n=2, ou n=3). \definelinenote[bNote][n=2] \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] \definelinenote[dNote][paragraph=yes] % Les notes se suivent sur la même ligne. \def\ANote#1#2{#1\aNote{#1] #2}} \def\BNote#1#2{#1\bNote{#1] #2}} \def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}} \def\DNote#1#2{#1\dNote{#1] #2}} \setupbodyfont[palatino, 7.8pt] \starttext \start\fr % On indique à ConTeXt que l'on veut ici du texte en français (ou 'en' pour l'anglais). {\em Définir un apparat critique et le mettre en page avec un traitement de texte courant est un véritable casse-tête. \type{LaTeX} et \type{ConTeXt} offrent des outils d'automatisation encore assez mal connus dans la communauté des éditeurs, notamment dans l'édition savante, pour la collation et la comparaison de textes médiévaux}.\par \startlinenumbering \dorecurse{6}% À utiliser seulement pour répéter le paragraphe suivant, ici 8 fois. {Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque muneribus aut omnino aut magna ex parte essem aliquando liberatus, rettuli me, Brute, te hortante maxime ad ea studia, quae retenta animo, remissa temporibus, longo intervallo intermissa revocavi, et cum omnium artium, quae ad rectam vivendi viam pertinerent, \ANote{ratio}{seconde note} et disciplina studio sapientiae, quae philosophia dicitur, contineretur, hoc mihi Latinis litteris \DNote{inlustrandum}{troisième note} putavi, non quia \BNote{philosophia}{quatrième note} Graecis et litteris et doctoribus percipi non posset, sed meum semper iudicium fuit omnia nostros aut invenisse per se sapientius quam Graecos aut accepta ab illis fecisse meliora, quae quidem digna statuissent, in quibus elaborarent.\par} \stoplinenumbering \stoptext [-- Attachment #3: ConTeXt_Test_FooteNote-ComplexMedieval.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 19813 bytes --] [-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* STIX2 font issues with freshly installed FMTX 2022-01-03 13:37 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 20:46 ` Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context [not found] ` <C24ABDC0-DB51-46B8-9D38-4136BE590017@me.com> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context @ 2022-01-03 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Heinrich Paeßens [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3705 bytes --] Hi there as a newcomer in ConTeXt I installed according to https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installing_ConTeXt_LMTX_on_MacOS/ and using TeXShop on macos as advised. However, I like to use STIX2-Fonts for Text and Math and hence my MWE to test which fonts are going to be embedded (CLI pdffonts): ————- \setupbodyfont[stixtwo] \starttext Test ß 1lIjJuQ \% § \& ?! VERSAL-ẞ- \|> --- 1234567890 --- // \placeformula[eqn:def-m] \startformula m = \frac{m_0}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}} \stopformula \stoptext ————- Unfortunately the compiler throws an error — why is there a check of STIX2-fonts versions, why is that important? I checked and found /Users/hp/Library/Fonts/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf Version 2.12 b168 /Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/stix2-otf/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf Version 2.11 b159 Could you please advise for a work around? from the log: ————- fonts > otf loading > loading 'stixtwotext-regular.otf', hash 'stixtwotext-regular' otf reader > unknown version ' ' in file 'stixtwotext-regular.otf' fonts > otf loading > loading done fonts > otf loading > saving 'stixtwotext-regular.otf' in cache system > lua > compiling '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma' into '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd' system > lua > dumping '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma' into '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd' stripped fonts > otf loading > loading, optimizing, packing and caching time 0.002 lua error > lua error on line 1 in file ./Untitled.tex: registered function call [1129]: ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: attempt to index a nil value (upvalue 'descriptions') stack traceback: ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: in local 'prepare_ligature' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:770: in upvalue 'addfeature' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:899: in local 'enhancer' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1269: in upvalue 'enhance' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1291: in field 'apply' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:263: in field 'load' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:602: in upvalue 'otftotfm' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:630: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:629> (...tail calls...) ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:378: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:366> (...tail calls...) ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:484: in field 'read' ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1336: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1193> (...tail calls...) 1 >> \setupbodyfont[stixtwo] ————- Many thanks for your support. Kind regards Heinrich Paeßens Mobile +49 1512 123 9876 <tel:+4915121239876> Business Card <https://www.paessens.tel/img/heinrich-paessens_bc-2021-03-11_signed.pdf> [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 9655 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
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* Re: STIX2 font issues with freshly installed LMTX [not found] ` <3EF0489B-E388-4E1D-A14A-DE46EE607E40@me.com> @ 2022-01-05 14:03 ` Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Heinrich Paeßens [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4465 bytes --] Hi there Issue solved by deleting the context-internal fonts and recurring on the system-wide installed fonts … never mind ;-) <Untitled_Test -compressed.pdf> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/g31kwg14tcs5621/Untitled_Test%20-compressed.pdf?dl=0> Happy New Year Heinrich > >> On 3 Jan 2022, at 21:46, Heinrich Paeßens <paessens@me.com <mailto:paessens@me.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi there >>> >>> as a newcomer in ConTeXt I installed according to >>> >>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installing_ConTeXt_LMTX_on_MacOS/ <https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installing_ConTeXt_LMTX_on_MacOS/> >>> >>> and using TeXShop on macos as advised. >>> >>> However, I like to use STIX2-Fonts for Text and Math and hence my MWE to test which fonts are going to be embedded (CLI pdffonts): >>> >>> ————- >>> \setupbodyfont[stixtwo] >>> \starttext >>> >>> Test ß 1lIjJuQ \% § \& ?! VERSAL-ẞ- \|> --- 1234567890 --- // >>> >>> \placeformula[eqn:def-m] >>> \startformula >>> m = \frac{m_0}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}} >>> \stopformula >>> \stoptext >>> ————- >>> >>> Unfortunately the compiler throws an error — why is there a check of STIX2-fonts versions, why is that important? >>> >>> I checked and found >>> >>> /Users/hp/Library/Fonts/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf Version 2.12 b168 >>> /Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/stix2-otf/STIXTwoText-Regular.otf Version 2.11 b159 >>> >>> Could you please advise for a work around? >>> >>> from the log: >>> >>> ————- >>> fonts > otf loading > loading 'stixtwotext-regular.otf', hash 'stixtwotext-regular' >>> otf reader > unknown version ' >>> >>> >>> >>> ' in file 'stixtwotext-regular.otf' >>> fonts > otf loading > loading done >>> fonts > otf loading > saving 'stixtwotext-regular.otf' in cache >>> system > lua > compiling '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma' into '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd' >>> system > lua > dumping '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tma' into '/Users/hp/Library/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-cache/luametatex-cache/context/5fe67e0bfe781ce0dde776fb1556f32e/fonts/otl/stixtwotext-regular.tmd' stripped >>> fonts > otf loading > loading, optimizing, packing and caching time 0.002 >>> lua error > lua error on line 1 in file ./Untitled.tex: >>> >>> registered function call [1129]: ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: attempt to index a nil value (upvalue 'descriptions') >>> stack traceback: >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:325: in local 'prepare_ligature' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:770: in upvalue 'addfeature' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/font-otc.lua:899: in local 'enhancer' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1269: in upvalue 'enhance' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-con.lmt:1291: in field 'apply' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:263: in field 'load' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:602: in upvalue 'otftotfm' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:630: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-otl.lmt:629> >>> (...tail calls...) >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:378: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:366> >>> (...tail calls...) >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-def.lmt:484: in field 'read' >>> ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1336: in function <...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/font-ctx.lmt:1193> >>> (...tail calls...) >>> 1 >> \setupbodyfont[stixtwo] >>> ————- >>> >>> Many thanks for your support. >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Heinrich Paeßens >>> Mobile +49 1512 123 9876 <tel:+4915121239876> >>> Business Card <https://www.paessens.tel/img/heinrich-paessens_bc-2021-03-11_signed.pdf> >>> >> > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 11783 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-03 10:32 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-03 13:37 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 12:38 ` Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 2022-01-04 17:54 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-04 12:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 3 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Thomas A. Schmitz > On 3. Jan 2022, at 10:43, hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > While the system is ingenious > and a great relief (for we do not have to work with xml directly), I am also critical about these > new demands, because they force us to use a fairly complex system for sometimes quite simple tasks. > I am a Sanskritist, we do not have huge budgets or a large staff, so efficiency is an issue. Just for what it’s worth: I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for critical editions, for the following reasons: 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense in 2022. This is not sustainable because no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. You have to provide a digital edition as research data. 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. 3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2 (or 5 or 50) years. 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to process it. Thomas ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-04 12:38 ` Critical Editions? Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 17:54 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-04 20:02 ` Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange Thomas, You are deeply right ! But this is an issue in academic edition, not only because students read no more at length (specially in humanities), and by consequence, don't buy books, but among other reasons there is a general problem in publishing in academic fields, pointed by Jürgen Hanneder : even Universities libraries don't buy all items published by scholars in a specific field, but publishers themselves have leveled the academic criterium by commercial/economic considerations. Then, scholars have to gather financial funding with technical computing practice, which is another issue, and furthermore they have to find money in order to publish at expansive cost (see Brill prices, for example). You are right about some academic tools, like those developed by Tuft University (like ancient greek thesaurus : http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/ or The Liddell-Scott-Jones online dictionary : http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1), but for providing such tools as online digital work, there is two ways : 1. Academic courses on TEI XML given to advanced students in order to help them to produce well achieved projects (and provide manuals to do that; an example here in French : http://www.bvh.univ-tours.fr/XML-TEI/ManuelWeb/Manuel_TEI_BVH.html) 2. Or, there are not so numerous nests like NTG-Context discussion list ! How to help Jürgen (and scholars generally) who knock at the door looking for an analysis of their needs and questioning how ConTeXt may help them ? a) They have to learn TEI XML, then b) learn Context stylesheet ! Is it possible to gather a group of people interested by these topics ? Are we starting today ? Le 04/01/2022 à 13:38, Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context a écrit : >> On 3. Jan 2022, at 10:43, hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: >> >> While the system is ingenious >> and a great relief (for we do not have to work with xml directly), I am also critical about these >> new demands, because they force us to use a fairly complex system for sometimes quite simple tasks. >> I am a Sanskritist, we do not have huge budgets or a large staff, so efficiency is an issue. > Just for what it’s worth: I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for critical editions, for the following reasons: > > 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense in 2022. This is not sustainable because no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. You have to provide a digital edition as research data. > > 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. > > 3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2 (or 5 or 50) years. > > 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. > > Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to process it. > > Thomas > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Ancients&Moderns ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-04 17:54 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 20:02 ` Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 2022-01-04 23:00 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Thomas A. Schmitz I basically agree with everything you say, Jean-Pierre. Publishers are modern-day robber barons, and they have been stifling and exploiting scholars and scholarship for many years now. Behemoths such as Brill, de Gruyter, or Elsevier are bankrupting libraries in the entire world. However, we scholars also have some responsibility: if we could agree with each other, we could easily bypass the big publishers and have our critical editions (in a variety of formats) on our university’s websites. But we don’t do that: younger scholars need the validation of big name publications to build reputation and find a job, older scholars (myself included) are vain and/or old-fashioned and prefer a “real” book. For your questions at the end: as you know, TEI is an insanely huge beast. Nobody will be willing and/or able to implement all of it in ConTeXt. What we need is actual use cases: scholars coming here and building up the expertise via the work they’re actually doing. Preferably in smaller installments so the developers and advanced users can slowly prepare bits and pieces of these stylesheets. No-one is going to look at a 400-page edition with all kinds of special needs in one go; we start with a chapter, a few pages, and we make our way. That’s what I expected when I wrote the wiki page on TEI xml: that it would slowly develop into something more comprehensive. Alas, it has been sitting there for 11 years… Every now and then, someone will appear on the mailing list and say: I need four apparatuses and six parallel translations and bells and whistles at every paragraph, but when you ask for real examples and specifications, they ride out into the sunset, never to be heard of again… So: I’m all for continuing in this direction, but we need some continuity. (And, not to brag, but still: I even managed to obtain some funding a couple of years ago to improve the bibliographical support in ConTeXt; if you have a real project, you can always allocate some funding for these things). As for learning TEI: I really think this is absolutely inevitable; even if new formats will be invented in the future (and TEI has serious shortcomings for many sorts of manuscript traditions), they will probably do so with TEI as a starting point. I’m not working on a critical edition right now, but I have done some preparatory work and am willing to chip in! All best Thomas > On 4. Jan 2022, at 18:54, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > Thomas, > > You are deeply right ! But this is an issue in academic edition, not only because students read no more at length (specially in humanities), and by consequence, don't buy books, but among other reasons there is a general problem in publishing in academic fields, pointed by Jürgen Hanneder : even Universities libraries don't buy all items published by scholars in a specific field, but publishers themselves have leveled the academic criterium by commercial/economic considerations. Then, scholars have to gather financial funding with technical computing practice, which is another issue, and furthermore they have to find money in order to publish at expansive cost (see Brill prices, for example). > > You are right about some academic tools, like those developed by Tuft University (like ancient greek thesaurus : http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/ or The Liddell-Scott-Jones online dictionary : http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1), but for providing such tools as online digital work, there is two ways : > > 1. Academic courses on TEI XML given to advanced students in order to help them to produce well achieved projects (and provide manuals to do that; an example here in French : http://www.bvh.univ-tours.fr/XML-TEI/ManuelWeb/Manuel_TEI_BVH.html) > > 2. Or, there are not so numerous nests like NTG-Context discussion list ! How to help Jürgen (and scholars generally) who knock at the door looking for an analysis of their needs and questioning how ConTeXt may help them ? > > a) They have to learn TEI XML, then > > b) learn Context stylesheet ! > > Is it possible to gather a group of people interested by these topics ? Are we starting today ? ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-04 20:02 ` Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 23:00 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 8:43 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6760 bytes --] Thomas, Even if I am an occasional user of CTX (mainly class courses for beginners and sophomore or by trying to write samples of what it is possible to achieve with it), and if I think I am aware about what can do CTX or what it cannot do, I didn't know that you wrote a wiki page on TEI-XML with ConTeXt : even if I am interested by clever printing and issues with multi-languages texts topics, I ignored your precious piece of work. I was interested by the questions of Pr. Jürgen Hanneder, because even if I don't know a word of Sanskrit, it is allways a true pain to begin with technical requisits when your real job is to think about the problematic meaning of ancients or less ancients texts. You precise clearly what I think about University mores, and J. Hanneder tell us his problems, which all of us know. There are, for people who are working on Ancient Greek, Latin, Middle Age texts or Sanskrit (or whatever) some commercial tools which seem do the work : but technical efficiency asks allways money. I know of a company that works for a publisher, whose service is to code some Perl with text formatted in LaTeX and XML, in order to produce a display on screen and a printout on paper, until the page which presents the cover of the book and the summary of the contents, as well as its ISBN code, its price and the quantity of books in stock. ConTeXt was at the very start a kind of a clever answer to the huge of technical abilities asked by LaTeX, and free of charge, numerous people interested by text editing have turned their eyes to ConTeXt. I agree with you about reading and solving problems for a 400 pages text with 2 or 3 different languages and several levels of criticus apparatus : one needs to begin with the beginning or a kind of beginning with some issues given by a real and modest sample. Best//JP Le 04/01/2022 à 21:02, Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context a écrit : > I basically agree with everything you say, Jean-Pierre. Publishers are modern-day robber barons, and they have been stifling and exploiting scholars and scholarship for many years now. Behemoths such as Brill, de Gruyter, or Elsevier are bankrupting libraries in the entire world. However, we scholars also have some responsibility: if we could agree with each other, we could easily bypass the big publishers and have our critical editions (in a variety of formats) on our university’s websites. But we don’t do that: younger scholars need the validation of big name publications to build reputation and find a job, older scholars (myself included) are vain and/or old-fashioned and prefer a “real” book. > > For your questions at the end: as you know, TEI is an insanely huge beast. Nobody will be willing and/or able to implement all of it in ConTeXt. What we need is actual use cases: scholars coming here and building up the expertise via the work they’re actually doing. Preferably in smaller installments so the developers and advanced users can slowly prepare bits and pieces of these stylesheets. No-one is going to look at a 400-page edition with all kinds of special needs in one go; we start with a chapter, a few pages, and we make our way. That’s what I expected when I wrote the wiki page on TEI xml: that it would slowly develop into something more comprehensive. Alas, it has been sitting there for 11 years… Every now and then, someone will appear on the mailing list and say: I need four apparatuses and six parallel translations and bells and whistles at every paragraph, but when you ask for real examples and specifications, they ride out into the sunset, never to be heard of again… So: I’m all for continuing in this direction, but we need some continuity. (And, not to brag, but still: I even managed to obtain some funding a couple of years ago to improve the bibliographical support in ConTeXt; if you have a real project, you can always allocate some funding for these things). As for learning TEI: I really think this is absolutely inevitable; even if new formats will be invented in the future (and TEI has serious shortcomings for many sorts of manuscript traditions), they will probably do so with TEI as a starting point. > > I’m not working on a critical edition right now, but I have done some preparatory work and am willing to chip in! > > All best > > Thomas > >> On 4. Jan 2022, at 18:54, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context<ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: >> >> Thomas, >> >> You are deeply right ! But this is an issue in academic edition, not only because students read no more at length (specially in humanities), and by consequence, don't buy books, but among other reasons there is a general problem in publishing in academic fields, pointed by Jürgen Hanneder : even Universities libraries don't buy all items published by scholars in a specific field, but publishers themselves have leveled the academic criterium by commercial/economic considerations. Then, scholars have to gather financial funding with technical computing practice, which is another issue, and furthermore they have to find money in order to publish at expansive cost (see Brill prices, for example). >> >> You are right about some academic tools, like those developed by Tuft University (like ancient greek thesaurus :http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/ or The Liddell-Scott-Jones online dictionary :http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1), but for providing such tools as online digital work, there is two ways : >> >> 1. Academic courses on TEI XML given to advanced students in order to help them to produce well achieved projects (and provide manuals to do that; an example here in French :http://www.bvh.univ-tours.fr/XML-TEI/ManuelWeb/Manuel_TEI_BVH.html) >> >> 2. Or, there are not so numerous nests like NTG-Context discussion list ! How to help Jürgen (and scholars generally) who knock at the door looking for an analysis of their needs and questioning how ConTeXt may help them ? >> >> a) They have to learn TEI XML, then >> >> b) learn Context stylesheet ! >> >> Is it possible to gather a group of people interested by these topics ? Are we starting today ? > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist :ntg-context@ntg.nl /http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage :http://www.pragma-ade.nl /http://context.aanhet.net > archive :https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki :http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Ancients&Moderns [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 8320 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-04 23:00 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 8:43 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 9:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 0 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 8:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1703 bytes --] On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:00 AM Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > Thomas, > Even if I am an occasional user of CTX (mainly class courses for beginners > and sophomore or by trying to write samples of what it is possible to > achieve with it), and if I think I am aware about what can do CTX or what > it cannot do, I didn't know that you wrote a wiki page on TEI-XML with > ConTeXt : even if I am interested by clever printing and issues with > multi-languages texts topics, I ignored your precious piece of work. I was > interested by the questions of Pr. Jürgen Hanneder, because even if I don't > know a word of Sanskrit, it is allways a true pain to begin with technical > requisits when your real job is to think about the problematic meaning of > ancients or less ancients texts. You precise clearly what I think about > University mores, and J. Hanneder tell us his problems, which all of us > know. > There are, for people who are working on Ancient Greek, Latin, Middle Age > texts or Sanskrit (or whatever) some commercial tools which seem do the > work : but technical efficiency asks allways money. I know of a company > that works for a publisher, whose service is to code some Perl with text > formatted in LaTeX and XML, in order to produce a display on screen and a > printout on paper, until the page which presents the cover of the book and > the summary of the contents, as well as its ISBN code, its price and the > quantity of books in stock. > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf -- luigi [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2370 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 8:43 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 9:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: luigi scarso, mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3523 bytes --] Thank you Luigi ! "Quite old" doesn't matter. The date of the wiki page from Thomas is 2010... And my own contribution to first steps with ConTeXt (in French and not for mathematics) through a Wikibook is no more valuable, full of errors and obsolete on many aspects (https://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/ConTeXt) ! As Garulfo made a quite good job last year with his own contribution (https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context/tree/main/), it may be useful to produce a kind of "howto" with TEI-XML and LMTX-CTX. I propose that at first time, any volunteer gather documentation on TEI-XML with ConTeXt to feed the wiki page on this topic, with in mind a real case of their choice (which may be a real academic case or an issue of their choice), not too tricky - or too far away of the common use, even if, by itself, the issues encountered in academic edition in humanities (or TEI-XML edition) are ... tricky and/or not very usual (because not it is not everybody who try to edit the work of Romanos the Melodist, or sanskrit poetry !). As I saw that Thomas A. Schmitz was time to time an editor of Second Sophistic authors (among other things like French Renaissance poets), and few others Context users use to deal with CTX in order to publish ancients texts/poetry (like Pablo ...), I propose in a second time a general discussion on the topic, with in mind : What are the needs ? and what it is necessary to achieve at first and how ? Thank you to share your views. JP Le 05/01/2022 à 09:43, luigi scarso a écrit : > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:00 AM Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context > <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > Thomas, > Even if I am an occasional user of CTX (mainly class courses for > beginners and sophomore or by trying to write samples of what it > is possible to achieve with it), and if I think I am aware about > what can do CTX or what it cannot do, I didn't know that you wrote > a wiki page on TEI-XML with ConTeXt : even if I am interested by > clever printing and issues with multi-languages texts topics, I > ignored your precious piece of work. I was interested by the > questions of Pr. Jürgen Hanneder, because even if I don't know a > word of Sanskrit, it is allways a true pain to begin with > technical requisits when your real job is to think about the > problematic meaning of ancients or less ancients texts. You > precise clearly what I think about University mores, and J. > Hanneder tell us his problems, which all of us know. > There are, for people who are working on Ancient Greek, Latin, > Middle Age texts or Sanskrit (or whatever) some commercial tools > which seem do the work : but technical efficiency asks allways > money. I know of a company that works for a publisher, whose > service is to code some Perl with text formatted in LaTeX and XML, > in order to produce a display on screen and a printout on paper, > until the page which presents the cover of the book and the > summary of the contents, as well as its ISBN code, its price and > the quantity of books in stock. > > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf > > -- > luigi -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5636 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 8:43 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 9:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: luigi scarso via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > [...] > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf Luigi, if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/). Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 13:06 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:34 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 15:43 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 12:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange Pablo and Luigi, Or simply add this paper to the bibliographical survey at the end of the wiki page made by Thomas ? https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml Le 05/01/2022 à 12:54, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit : > On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: >> [...] >> quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: >> embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf >> https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf > Luigi, > > if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of > that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. > > I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group > Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/). > > Pablo > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 13:06 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:34 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange I've found in NTG archives a discussion on XML analysis tool, which make me feel like a soldier who wants to fight after the battle ! ... 5 years ago.... See here : https://ntg-context.ntg.narkive.com/HAES9QLP/tei-to-context-xml-mappings So, the question is (I don't want to start some troll, I am just considering the fact) : why the wiki documentation on the topic (TEI-XML with ConTeXt) is so thin ? I'm sure that we can feed this page ... Le 05/01/2022 à 13:34, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context a écrit : > Pablo and Luigi, > > Or simply add this paper to the bibliographical survey at the end of > the wiki page made by Thomas ? > > https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml > > > Le 05/01/2022 à 12:54, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit : >> On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: >>> [...] >>> quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: >>> embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf >>> https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf >> Luigi, >> >> if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of >> that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. >> >> I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group >> Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/). >> >> Pablo >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an >> entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> > -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 13:06 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:34 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 1/5/22 1:34 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote: > Pablo and Luigi, > > Or simply add this paper to the bibliographical survey at the end of the > wiki page made by Thomas ? > > https://wiki.contextgarden.net/TEI_xml Jean-Pierre, excellent idea! Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 15:43 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2022-01-05 16:13 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 22:15 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 3 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Henning Hraban Ramm Am 05.01.22 um 12:54 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context: > On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: >> [...] >> quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: >> embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf >> https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf > > Luigi, > > if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of > that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. > > I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group > Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/). I’m happy to receive articles for the journal! And after all these years a talk/presentation on that matter would be great for the upcoming ConTeXt meeting! Hraban (who is responsible for both) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 15:43 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 16:13 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 22:15 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 3 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso, Pablo Rodriguez [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 738 bytes --] On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > > [...] > > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: > > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf > > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf > > Luigi, > > if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of > that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. > yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now. It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib -- and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess. But you can try with $>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf and translate teitagged.txt with google. -- luigi [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1356 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 16:13 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 18:38 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange, Pablo Rodriguez [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1602 bytes --] Hi Luigi & Pablo, I’ve thinking that Google translate may be provide some help. I’ll try it ! > Le 5 janv. 2022 à 17:13, luigi scarso via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> a écrit : > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote: > On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > > [...] > > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: > > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf > > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf <https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf> > > Luigi, > > if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of > that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. > > yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now. > It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib -- > and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess. > But you can try with > $>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf > and translate teitagged.txt with google. > > -- > luigi > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3244 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 18:38 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange, Pablo Rodriguez [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3195 bytes --] The starting point of the discussion on reledmac and other related points, has begun on May 13, 2016. See here about the way to get a ConTeXt equivalent to a LaTeX encoding : https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg81793.html <https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg81793.html> (I gave the LaTeX code). For the question asked by Jürgen, as far as I know, you have to deal (and play) with setupnote, definenote AND setupline commands. Discussion is here : https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=ntg-context@ntg.nl&q=subject:%22Re%5C%3A+%5C%5BNTG%5C-context%5C%5D+TwoColumns+in+two+different+languages%2C+with+alternate+text+on+even+and+odd+page.%22&o=newest&f=1 > Le 5 janv. 2022 à 18:28, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> a écrit : > > Hi Luigi & Pablo, > I’ve thinking that Google translate may be provide some help. I’ll try it ! > >> Le 5 janv. 2022 à 17:13, luigi scarso via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> a écrit : >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote: >> On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: >> > [...] >> > quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: >> > embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf >> > https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf <https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf> >> >> Luigi, >> >> if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of >> that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. >> >> yeah, but unfortunately I have no time now. >> It's for luatex with poppler -- now we have pplib -- >> and not lmtx, so not so useful I guess. >> But you can try with >> $>pdftotext -layout teitagged.pdf >> and translate teitagged.txt with google. >> >> -- >> luigi >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context <http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context> >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl <http://www.pragma-ade.nl/> / http://context.aanhet.net <http://context.aanhet.net/> >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ <https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/> >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net <http://contextgarden.net/> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5860 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2022-01-05 16:13 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 22:15 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 3 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1349 bytes --] Hi Pablo ! Herewith the Luigi Scarso file translated into English ... Le 05/01/2022 à 12:54, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit : > On 1/5/22 9:43 AM, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: >> [...] >> quite old (2014), but perhaps still interesting: >> embedding of a tei-xml into a tagged pdf >> https://www.guitex.org/home/images/ArsTeXnica/AT018/teitagged.pdf > Luigi, > > if you allow me a comment (or even a suggestion), an English version of > that article updated to LMTX wouuld be of huge help to the rest of us. > > I don’t even know whether it could be released on the “ConTeXt Group > Journal” (https://articles.contextgarden.net/journal/). > > Pablo > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton [-- Attachment #2: luigicarso-taggedpdf-english.doc --] [-- Type: application/msword, Size: 75264 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2022-01-04 12:38 ` Critical Editions? Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 12:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 3 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 1/3/22 10:43 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > For the last two decades edmac and its further developments (now > reledmac) have become the standard for critical editions. In my > experience the basic requirements for typesetting critical editions > were and are: > > - footnotes have to be formatted in paragraphs > - multiple footnotes layers stacked below the critical text must be possible > - automatic reference to linenumbers > - or: manual references to verse numbers > - language specific requirements (more complicated, see below) Hi Jürgen, not knowing which are the specific requirements for the language you use, I think all of these may be achieved in ConTeXt LMTX. > In the last years new requirements have been added: > > - some funding institutions in the academic world practically enforce > online editions > - data have to be made available in TEI xml format Sorry for asking the basic question: what are online editions? I mean, does uploading a PDF document count as an online edition? As you may already know, ConTeXt can deal with XML sources (see »Kritische Editionen mit TEI xml und ConTEXt« by Thomas Schmitz (2011) [https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=72857]). ConTeXt might also output XML. But this is much harder in practice. All I know about it is what Hans wrote bout this. > This is why I was curious to see about the status of critical > edition in ConTeXt. I was hoping for something that can be kept > simple. Sorry, Jürgen, but from your statements it isn’t clear to me how ConTeXt can fit in you projects: simpler and more readable input code? > Absolutely. It would be great to see a Context solution for this. https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/sample-edition3.pdf contains line numbers and margin notes. It can be done with ConTeXt. https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/sample-edition2.pdf contains multiple apparatus below critical texts. It might require \setupnote[location=text]. https://www.djdekker.net/ledmac/sample-edition.pdf contains multiple apparatus at the bottom of the page. Just in case it might help, Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2021-12-21 9:50 Critical Editions? hanneder--- via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2021-12-24 12:07 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 11:52 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-04 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 12/21/21 10:50 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > > Details: > I was able to find the article "Ediciones críticas con ConTeXt" (is > this in use?) Hi Jürgen, if you mean http://www.ediciones-criticas.tk/pdf/criticas-context.pdf, this is outdated. I hope to update it in a not so distant future... 😅. > I also found out that for simple editions context already works. For > critical editions in my field we need both footnote references based > on linenumbers (for prose), but also references to verse number, > which can be entered manually. As far as I can remember linenotes are footnotes with references to line numbers. I don’t think it makes a difference if the line number is set automatically by ConTeXt or the user specifies a given value. > So far, so good. Any hints to a more sophisticated solution are highly > welcome. (I am a simple TeX user) I’m only a ConTeXt newbie (who has been using it for about a decade 😅). There might be other solutions, but I’m afraid I don’t know which is exactly the problem you are facing. Sorry, but the text structure isn’t clear to me (this is independent from the fact that I don’t understand a word from the language you may be using). BTW, I could only make your sample work in the following form: \starttext \setupnotation[linenote] [alternative=serried,width=broad,distance=.5em,display=no] \setupnote[linenote][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] \definenote [variant] \setupnotation[variant][number=no] \setupnote[variant][way=bypage,paragraph=yes,rule=off] \definelines[slokaed][][indenting={yes, small, even}, before={\startnarrower\startlinenumbering}, after={\stoplinenumbering\stopnarrower}] \definelines[slokaedplain][][indenting={yes, small, even}, before=\startnarrower, after=\stopnarrower] \startslokaed mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\linenote{dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva G\lohi{pc}{1}} vinivartante tam \linenote{tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe \stopslokaed \startslokaedplain mano buddhir ahaṃ prāṇās tanmātrendriyajīvanam yaṃ dṛṣṭvā\variant{2c dṛṣṭvā ] dṛṣṭva} vinivartante tam \variant{2d tam ] tat} upāsyam upāsmahe (2) \stopslokaedplain \stoptext Just in case it might help, Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-04 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 11:52 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:29 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 0 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 11:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: hanneder Dear critical edition experts, the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and the other posts are really answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if there were a Wiki on critical editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If anything else is planned by the experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know. As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is needed, but since the topic is being discussed - > I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for > critical editions, for the following reasons: > 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense > in 2022. This is not sustainable because > no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. > You have to provide a digital edition as research data. > 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is > sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with > various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the first question is: Is a pdf more sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will tell, I guess. The same applies to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been edited by that method yet (in my field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be finished, when the project ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based say that the latter significantly slows down the collation process. At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone is talking about online editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience it is not up to these expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was almost lost, since there is no institutional funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an online edition can be (and is in our case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in the last centuries, possibly additional online edition with a shorter life span and online publication of research data. This sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the collation file, that is, the TeX-input file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by ekdosis, and that's it. The mss scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right (no Indian institution will grant any rights). Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new possibilities. I was part of an online dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and everything else, but after the threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the dictionary), I have to finance occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that no further funding for this project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes for a continuation of my post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough nerds who can and will do the necessary work privately, we are safe. > 3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: > it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2 > (or 5 or 50) years. Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its possibilities and have started to use it as the default. > 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. > Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in > TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to > process it. I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let ekdosis do the conversion, if necessary. But in publication practice in my field, most of this is just for private entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word file, so the tool of choice is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. Sorry to end on this depressing note. Best Jürgen --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:52 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 12:29 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 17:39 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange Dear Jürgen, Would you mind to test the MWE sample I've given (ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.tex) whith a little bit more information inside - in order to test furthermore ? You can change the text, even the \dorecurse option, in order to see what simply works and what does not for your purpose. There is a difficulty I've tried to solve some years ago : when you get two parrallel texts (for example an Ancient Greek text on odd page, and its translation on the even page) the solution seem to be in 'stream' to get a side by side text on different pages. If you try to do a two columns with separate texts - greek and its translation in my example - on the same page, it is working for the first page, but doesn't work for the following pages, that's why the 'stream' option seems a better way (see here : https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Examples_of_MkIV_streams). Le 05/01/2022 à 12:52, hanneder--- via ntg-context a écrit : > > Dear critical edition experts, > > the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and > the other posts are really > answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if > there were a Wiki on critical > editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If > anything else is planned by the > experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know. > > As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is > needed, but since the topic is > being discussed - > >> I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for >> critical editions, for the following reasons: >> 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense >> in 2022. This is not sustainable because >> no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. >> You have to provide a digital edition as research data. >> 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is >> sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with >> various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. > > I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the first > question is: Is a pdf more > sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will > tell, I guess. The same applies > to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been > edited by that method yet (in my > field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be > finished, when the project > ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based > say that the latter > significantly slows down the collation process. > > At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone is > talking about online > editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience it > is not up to these > expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was almost > lost, since there is no institutional > funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an online > edition can be (and is in our > case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in the > last centuries, possibly > additional online edition with a shorter life span and online > publication of research data. This > sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the collation > file, that is, the TeX-input > file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by > ekdosis, and that's it. The mss > scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right (no > Indian institution will grant > any rights). > > Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new possibilities. > I was part of an online > dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and > everything else, but after the > threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the > dictionary), I have to finance > occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that no > further funding for this > project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes > for a continuation of my > post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough > nerds who can and will do > the necessary work privately, we are safe. > >> 3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: it >> is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in 2 (or >> 5 or 50) years. > > Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its possibilities > and have started to use it as the default. > >> 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. >> Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in TEI >> xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to process it. > > I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let ekdosis > do the conversion, > if necessary. But in publication practice in my field, most of this is > just for private > entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word file, so the > tool of choice > is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. Sorry to end on this > depressing note. > Best > Jürgen > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 12:29 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 17:39 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 19:05 ` Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:31 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 0 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean-Pierre Delange; +Cc: hanneder, ntg-context Dear Jean-Pierre, I started preparing some examples, but first a quick question: Where can I find out the exact behaviour of a command option like aNote. If you define a \cNote with \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] as in your example, then the input line Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque prints laboribus in the text and as the lemma! I cannot see where this is defined (and explained). ----- Nachricht von Jean-Pierre Delange <adeimantos@free.fr> --------- Datum: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:29:20 +0100 Von: Jean-Pierre Delange <adeimantos@free.fr> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Critical Editions? An: ntg-context@ntg.nl Cc: hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > Dear Jürgen, > > Would you mind to test the MWE sample I've given > (ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.tex) whith a little bit more > information inside - in order to test furthermore ? You can change > the text, even the \dorecurse option, in order to see what simply > works and what does not for your purpose. There is a difficulty I've > tried to solve some years ago : when you get two parrallel texts > (for example an Ancient Greek text on odd page, and its translation > on the even page) the solution seem to be in 'stream' to get a side > by side text on different pages. If you try to do a two columns with > separate texts - greek and its translation in my example - on the > same page, it is working for the first page, but doesn't work for > the following pages, that's why the 'stream' option seems a better > way (see here : > https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Examples_of_MkIV_streams). > > > Le 05/01/2022 à 12:52, hanneder--- via ntg-context a écrit : >> >> Dear critical edition experts, >> >> the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and >> the other posts are really >> answering my questions. Everything seems to be already there and if >> there were a Wiki on critical >> editions I would perhaps have not even asked. Thanks a lot! If >> anything else is planned by the >> experts and you need input from a Sanskrit editor, please let me know. >> >> As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is >> needed, but since the topic is >> being discussed - >> >>> I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for >>> critical editions, for the following reasons: >>> 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no >>> sense in 2022. This is not sustainable because >>> no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on >>> it. You have to provide a digital edition as research data. >>> 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is >>> sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with >>> various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. >> >> I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the >> first question is: Is a pdf more >> sustainable, or an online edition (based on html etc.)? Time will >> tell, I guess. The same applies >> to TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been >> edited by that method yet (in my >> field), many projects are being worked on, but they tend not to be >> finished, when the project >> ends. Some of the people actually working with both TeX and >> XML-based say that the latter >> significantly slows down the collation process. >> >> At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone >> is talking about online >> editions, data repositories etc., but the reality as I experience >> it is not up to these >> expectations. One of our great paleographical online tools was >> almost lost, since there is no institutional >> funding for updating those systems. Even finding a host for an >> online edition can be (and is in our >> case) a nightmare. In short, my solution is: printed version as in >> the last centuries, possibly >> additional online edition with a shorter life span and online >> publication of research data. This >> sounds great, but actually we are talking mainly about the >> collation file, that is, the TeX-input >> file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml by >> ekdosis, and that's it. The mss >> scans are prohibited from online publication by German copy right >> (no Indian institution will grant >> any rights). >> >> Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new >> possibilities. I was part of an online >> dictionary project (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and >> everything else, but after the >> threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the >> dictionary), I have to finance >> occasional updates from our normal budget (the DFG had decreed that >> no further funding for this >> project was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great >> hopes for a continuation of my >> post - it might become quickly useless. As long as we have enough >> nerds who can and will do >> the necessary work privately, we are safe. >> >>> 3. ConTeXt is not stable enough to provide such a standard format: >>> it is in development; what you code today may not be compilable in >>> 2 (or 5 or 50) years. >> >> Perhaps not, but I had much fun just checking out its possibilities >> and have started to use it as the default. >> >>> 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. >>> Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in >>> TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to >>> process it. >> >> I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let >> ekdosis do the conversion, >> if necessary. But in publication practice in my field, most of this >> is just for private >> entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word file, so >> the tool of choice >> is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. Sorry to end on this >> depressing note. >> Best >> Jürgen >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder >> Philipps-Universitaet Marburg >> FG Indologie u. Tibetologie >> Deutschhausstr.12 >> 35032 Marburg >> Germany >> Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 >> hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the >> Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > Jean-Pierre Delange > Agrégé de philosophie > Ancients&Moderns > "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the > pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton ----- Ende der Nachricht von Jean-Pierre Delange <adeimantos@free.fr> ----- --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 17:39 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 19:05 ` Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:31 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context @ 2022-01-05 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Aditya Mahajan [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 668 bytes --] On Wed, 5 Jan 2022, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > Dear Jean-Pierre, > > I started preparing some examples, but first a quick question: Where > can I find out the exact behaviour of a command option like aNote. > > If you define a \cNote with \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] as in your > example, then the input line > > Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque > > prints laboribus in the text and as the lemma! I cannot see where this is > defined (and explained). To get an overview of linenotes, see: https://www.contextgarden.net/Command/_linenote https://www.contextgarden.net/Command/setuplinenote Aditya [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 17:39 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 19:05 ` Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:31 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 1/5/22 6:39 PM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > Dear Jean-Pierre, > > I started preparing some examples, but first a quick question: Where > can I find out the exact behaviour of a command option like aNote. > > If you define a \cNote with \definelinenote[cNote][n=3] as in your > example, then the input line > > Cum defensionum \CNote{laboribus}{première note} senatoriisque > > prints laboribus in the text and as the lemma! I cannot see where this is > defined (and explained). Hi Jürgen, it is a simple command definition: \def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}} Just in case it might not be clear, "\CNote{laboribus}{première note}" would be the same as typing "laboribus\cNote{laboribus] première note}". BTW, for humans "a" = "A". For a computer, "a" ≠ "A". So "\CNote" is a different command from "\cNote". For a basic sample is fine, but for real documents creating commands that are too similar for humans is the best way to make mistakes. My apologies if the explanations are obvious to you. I hope this might help, Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-05 11:52 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:29 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-06 17:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 1 sibling, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez On 1/5/22 12:52 PM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > > Dear critical edition experts, > > the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and > the other posts are really answering my questions. Everything seems > to be already there and if there were a Wiki on critical editions I > would perhaps have not even asked. The wiki is a cooperative effort. Nothing prevents you from starting a new article on critical editions at the ConTeXt Garden (https://wiki.contextgarden.net). If you put some samples, other users may extend you article (again, this is a cooperative effort). > As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is > needed, but since the topic is being discussed - This should be no big surprise: Knuth developed TeX as a typesetting programming language, not mainly as an input format. Once you get used to it, TeX (or ConTeXt) may be easier for you as input format. But it makes sense that as input format, ConTeXt cannot be future–proof in that way, if it is in development. >> I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for >> critical editions, for the following reasons: >> 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense >> in 2022. This is not sustainable because >> no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. >> You have to provide a digital edition as research data. >> 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is >> sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with >> various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. > > I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the > first question is: Is a pdf more sustainable, or an online edition > (based on html etc.)? Time will tell, I guess. The same applies to > TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been > edited by that method yet (in my field), many projects are being > worked on, but they tend not to be finished, when the project ends. > Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based say > that the latter significantly slows down the collation process. Research (Maryanne Wolf) shows that people read way better on paper. We tend to forget way faster what we read on e–ink screens. Just in case anyone is interested PDF is way easier to maintain. Once you generate it, this is all to it. XML sources need more work to get and display data (oversimplifying the issue). In my experience, having XML sources requires learning how to generate PDF output from them (and how to display them online). I use Markdown and if I had to share my document, this would be way easier than to share ConTeXt source files containing text. That way, I could focus on the typesetting and the team could focus on the pure content (text or images). TEI may be a pain to learn and to write, but it makes sense to use it as input format. Or the alternative would be a light–weight markup language, not TeX. > At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone > is talking about online editions, data repositories etc., but the > reality as I experience it is not up to these expectations. One of > our great paleographical online tools was almost lost, since there is > no institutional funding for updating those systems. Even finding a > host for an online edition can be (and is in our case) a nightmare. Don’t universites host online archives for research projects? > In short, my solution is: printed version as in the last centuries, > possibly additional online edition with a shorter life span and > online publication of research data. This sounds great, but actually > we are talking mainly about the collation file, that is, the > TeX-input file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml > by ekdosis, and that's it. The mss scans are prohibited from online > publication by German copyright (no Indian institution will grant > any rights). I’m interested in the copyright issue. All I knew about German copyright law is that it protects critical editions (I mean, not the apparatus, but the text itself.) What is actually protected by German copyright in manuscript scans? The photograph itself? In that case, for manuscripts and works that are in the public domain, who is supposed to be the copyright holder? > Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new > possibilities. I was part of an online dictionary project > (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and everything else, but > after the threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the > dictionary), I have to finance occasional updates from our normal > budget (the DFG had decreed that no further funding for this project > was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes for a > continuation of my post - it might become quickly useless. As long > as we have enough nerds who can and will do the necessary work > privately, we are safe. Maybe the wrong approach is that studies in humanities don’t need a strong background in computer science (programming). In that case, it is really hard to use computers to achieve rich and complex goals. >> 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. >> Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in >> TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to >> process it. > > I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let > ekdosis do the conversion, if necessary. A light–weight markup language for critical editions would be something to consider, in that case. (But it is something to be developed, if it makes sense at all.) > But in publication practice in my field, most of this is just for > private entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word > file, so the tool of choice is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. > Sorry to end on this depressing note. Word documents for critical editions? In that case, publishers will have to typeset the book themselves, won’t they? Many thanks for your insightful comments, Pablo ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-06 16:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 17:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 18:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange Le 06/01/2022 à 17:57, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context a écrit : > On 1/5/22 12:52 PM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: >> Dear critical edition experts, >> >> the examples given in ConTeXt_Test_Footnote-ComplexMedieval.pdf and >> the other posts are really answering my questions. Everything seems >> to be already there and if there were a Wiki on critical editions I >> would perhaps have not even asked. > The wiki is a cooperative effort. Nothing prevents you from starting a > new article on critical editions at the ConTeXt Garden > (https://wiki.contextgarden.net). > > If you put some samples, other users may extend you article (again, this > is a cooperative effort). > >> As far as I see, no ConTeXt input format for critical editions is >> needed, but since the topic is being discussed - > This should be no big surprise: Knuth developed TeX as a typesetting > programming language, not mainly as an input format. > > Once you get used to it, TeX (or ConTeXt) may be easier for you as input > format. But it makes sense that as input format, ConTeXt cannot be > future–proof in that way, if it is in development. > >>> I don’t see any future in developing a ConTeXt input format for >>> critical editions, for the following reasons: >>> 1. Producing a print-only version (i.e. printed book) makes no sense >>> in 2022. This is not sustainable because >>> no-one will be able to take your edition and continue to work on it. >>> You have to provide a digital edition as research data. >>> 2. This digital edition has to be in a standard format that is >>> sustainable at least for some time so it can be processed with >>> various types of software. TEI xml has become the de facto standard. >> I must disagree. There is no print only version any more, so the >> first question is: Is a pdf more sustainable, or an online edition >> (based on html etc.)? Time will tell, I guess. The same applies to >> TEI based online editions by the way. No larger texts have been >> edited by that method yet (in my field), many projects are being >> worked on, but they tend not to be finished, when the project ends. >> Some of the people actually working with both TeX and XML-based say >> that the latter significantly slows down the collation process. > Research (Maryanne Wolf) shows that people read way better on paper. We > tend to forget way faster what we read on e–ink screens. Just in case > anyone is interested > > PDF is way easier to maintain. Once you generate it, this is all to it. > XML sources need more work to get and display data (oversimplifying the > issue). > > In my experience, having XML sources requires learning how to generate > PDF output from them (and how to display them online). I use Markdown > and if I had to share my document, this would be way easier than to > share ConTeXt source files containing text. That way, I could focus on > the typesetting and the team could focus on the pure content (text or > images). > > TEI may be a pain to learn and to write, but it makes sense to use it as > input format. Or the alternative would be a light–weight markup > language, not TeX. > >> At least in Indology books and scans are still being used. Everyone >> is talking about online editions, data repositories etc., but the >> reality as I experience it is not up to these expectations. One of >> our great paleographical online tools was almost lost, since there is >> no institutional funding for updating those systems. Even finding a >> host for an online edition can be (and is in our case) a nightmare. > Don’t universites host online archives for research projects? > >> In short, my solution is: printed version as in the last centuries, >> possibly additional online edition with a shorter life span and >> online publication of research data. This sounds great, but actually >> we are talking mainly about the collation file, that is, the >> TeX-input file. Not a big deal, since now this can be turned into xml >> by ekdosis, and that's it. The mss scans are prohibited from online >> publication by German copyright (no Indian institution will grant >> any rights). > I’m interested in the copyright issue. > > All I knew about German copyright law is that it protects critical > editions (I mean, not the apparatus, but the text itself.) > > What is actually protected by German copyright in manuscript scans? The > photograph itself? In that case, for manuscripts and works that are in > the public domain, who is supposed to be the copyright holder? > >> Let me emphasize that I am not at all against these new >> possibilities. I was part of an online dictionary project >> (nws.uzi.uni-halle.de) that worked with TEI and everything else, but >> after the threat to close down Indology in Halle (the location of the >> dictionary), I have to finance occasional updates from our normal >> budget (the DFG had decreed that no further funding for this project >> was possible) and after my retirement - I have no great hopes for a >> continuation of my post - it might become quickly useless. As long >> as we have enough nerds who can and will do the necessary work >> privately, we are safe. > Maybe the wrong approach is that studies in humanities don’t need a > strong background in computer science (programming). > > In that case, it is really hard to use computers to achieve rich and > complex goals. > >>> 4. However, ConTeXt is wonderful for processing xml. >>> Hence: keep the input source and the processing separate. Code in >>> TEI xml (or a subset of it) and develop a ConTeXt stylesheet to >>> process it. >> I am used to TeX-code, and so I'd rather stick to that and let >> ekdosis do the conversion, if necessary. > A light–weight markup language for critical editions would be something > to consider, in that case. (But it is something to be developed, if it > makes sense at all.) > >> But in publication practice in my field, most of this is just for >> private entertainment. Almost all publishers still expect a Word >> file, so the tool of choice is pandoc to downgrade from TeX to docx. >> Sorry to end on this depressing note. > Word documents for critical editions? In that case, publishers will have > to typeset the book themselves, won’t they? As far as I know, some publishers in Humanities in France (e.g. Librairie Philosophique Vrin and many others, like Dunod) prefer that editor/authors provide a Word processing text (even with a special style sheet) than a PDF ready to print ("bon à tirer"). The "Librairie philosophique Vrin" has his own style sheet which give a PDF output, but Dunod publisher has (for example) build since 15 years an external working flow on a distant (and private server) : the Word text is revised with Word tags (title, chapter, etc.) and send to a server which automatically apply some XML, LateX and Perl procedures. Then the output is in PDF (ready to print) and HTML formats. The typessetting is made by publisher. But, publishing in Humanities is not, AMHO, to print a simple essay with 6 or 12 chapters and a TOC with a backmatter bibliography. Therefore, even if this kind of book is rare (e.g. a text in 3 languages : Greek, latin, and a translation in modern language on the even page, with footnotes, and a commentary on the odd page, or some essay on the different levels of text written by Montaigne since the first edition of "Les essais", with the different states of text on the even page, or in a column, and the commentary in a parallell column or page) may be tricky. Pablo is right : scholars in some research fields have to learn computing. That's why there is sometimes a proposal to learn some technical language (like Tei-XML here : https://cesr.cnrs.fr/actualites/actualites-scientifiques/stage-initiation-%C3%A0-lencodage-xml-tei-des-textes-patrimoniaux and here http://www.bvh.univ-tours.fr/actualites/2011.01_stage_tei_CESR.pdf). The question of funding computing tools is an issue : it is true in a private situation when you want to write a manuscript with versioning (you have to know how it works), but it is more relevant within an academic field of research : who wants to buy days of education for scholars for their learning in computing or for XML Oxygen and other tools ? As allways, needs create tools : but it is possible in a cooperative spirit, as Pablo truely point it out. > Many thanks for your insightful comments, > > Pablo > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-06 17:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 18:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-06 19:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/6/2022 6:47 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote: > The question of funding computing tools is an issue : it is true in a > private situation when you want to write a manuscript with versioning > (you have to know how it works), but it is more relevant within an > academic field of research : who wants to buy days of education for > scholars for their learning in computing or for XML Oxygen and other > tools ? there was a time when publishers did typesetting and printing themselves in which case they might have some interest in tools but afaik that time is long gone (and i admit that i never met a publisher where investing in know how and technology was part of the corporate identity (there were some but by the time context showed up most large publishers started outsourcing to far-far-away and those interested in technologies left), at least not one that invest beyond a specific product and even then falling back on tools like tex is a last resort ... do publisheres even have departments that do some kind of resaearch at all? i admire those working at publishers who were willing to take the risk (we dealt with some) but mergers, buyouts by crooky strip-down-and-lay-off investors etc doesn't help dedicated employees long term using tools like tex really depends on individuals who know what they're dealing with and can make convincing use case examples (and then explain thet investing time / money beforehand pays back a lot long term (which is possible in non publishing contexts but publishers go for short term which means pay per page (every time) instead of pay per project (and some maintanance) when i look at some publications i even wonder if the big ones even care about quality at all (folks at the newspaper that we read here figured out that using grayish fonts is best, that hyphenation doesn't need checking, that inter character spacing and extrems expansion looks great, or: soon we migh ditch it because it became hard to read). so ... i suppose authors are pretty much on their own and maybe not even seen as (human) assets any longer by publishers ... but then, i never (will) publish, so who knows ... and from the perspective of context (and development) it is therefore users (who of course can represent an organization) is what we focus on Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-06 18:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 19:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2022-01-07 17:25 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2022-01-06 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Hagen via ntg-context; +Cc: Henning Hraban Ramm Am 06.01.22 um 19:41 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context: > there was a time when publishers did typesetting and printing themselves > in which case they might have some interest in tools but afaik that time > is long gone (and i admit that i never met a publisher where investing > in know how and technology was part of the corporate identity (there > were some but by the time context showed up most large publishers > started outsourcing to far-far-away and those interested in technologies > left), at least not one that invest beyond a specific product and even > then falling back on tools like tex is a last resort ... I know one company in Leipzig that works for big publishers (www.le-tex.de). I talked to them a few years ago at a book fair and applied twice for their job offers (but they want people to work at their office). For scientific publications they’re using a XML-to-LaTeX workflow, otherwise Word-based (->XML->LaTeX or ->InDesign). Of course they accept all kind of data; it looks like they’re really good in automated workflows. But I guess there are strong competitors in the far east... Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-06 19:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 17:25 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-07 17:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-07 18:31 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 0 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: hanneder Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar. As I indicated, there are mostly no budgets for book typesetting in Indology and I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other words, the authors have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. Our publications series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with LaTeX, as are my publications with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in Germany. There is no institution offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no commercial interest in it and I think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts are used instead of transliteration). Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use TeX internally, which is convenient, but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, frustrating in a way, but it also gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own dilettantic designs). Jürgen > I know one company in Leipzig that works for big publishers > (www.le-tex.de). I talked to them a few years ago at a book fair and > applied twice for their job offers (but they want people to work at > their office). > > For scientific publications they’re using a XML-to-LaTeX workflow, > otherwise Word-based (->XML->LaTeX or ->InDesign). Of course they > accept all kind of data; it looks like they’re really good in > automated workflows. > > But I guess there are strong competitors in the far east... > > Hraban > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ----- Ende der Nachricht von Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> ----- --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-07 17:25 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 17:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-08 11:40 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-07 18:31 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 1 sibling, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: luigi scarso [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1314 bytes --] On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:25 PM hanneder--- via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar. > As I indicated, there are mostly no budgets for book typesetting in > Indology and > I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other > words, the authors > have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. > Our publications > series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with > LaTeX, as are my publications > with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in > Germany. There is no institution > offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no > commercial interest in it and I > think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts > are used instead of transliteration). > > Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use > TeX internally, which is convenient, > but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, > frustrating in a way, but it also > gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own > dilettantic designs). > > Jürgen > perhaps this can be interesting https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/ (seen them at a context meeting years ago) -- luigi [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1859 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-07 17:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 11:40 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:52 ` BPJ via ntg-context 0 siblings, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 11:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: luigi scarso via ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4289 bytes --] Luigi, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately this site mentions some typesetting work for research on Stoicism (and other stuff) and on uploading the manuscripts of the English philosopher John Locke, but apparently some links are dead and the maintenance of the site seems to have stopped since ... 2011 . But maybe Hans knows these people? see here : https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/projects.php?lang=en#h3 These fellows seem to work for Brepols and Oxford >University Press asswell as Utrecht University. Read this curious assertion (curious because the text mention an invisible project) : "Stoa Project The Stoa Project, which is carried out by the history working group of the Department of philosophy <http://www.phil.uu.nl/> of Utrecht University, will lead to a renewed publication of text fragments of the early Stoa, represented by philosophers such as Zeno, Chrysippus and Cleanthes. Very little of our knowledge about the Stoa comes from primary sources; most of what we know about it has been derived from secondary sources. Our most important sources are other philosophers and doxographers, who have cited and paraphrased the learnings of the early Stoa. Through modern research on doxographic traditions and republications of many of the sources, the current publication of this material, J. von Arnim’s Stoicorum Veterum Fragmenta (1903-1924) has become outdated. TAT Zetwerk’s role in this project is managing the FileMaker database that contains Stoic text fragments (mainly in ancient Greek) accompanied by text critical and historic-philosophical notes, an English translation, and meta data. As soon as the text parts in the database have reached their final form, we convert them into a TeX-format, so that we can generate a mirrored critical edition. We can then create indices and concordances by using the meta data from the database. Currently, the Stoa Project does not have its own website." If I understand, TAT Zetwerk manage Apple FileMaker database of pieces of Stoicorum Fragmenta texts (von Arnim edition) in order to convert them in TeX form (with critical apparatus...). But they give no sample. Le 07/01/2022 à 18:35, luigi scarso via ntg-context a écrit : > > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:25 PM hanneder--- via ntg-context > <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > > Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar. > As I indicated, there are mostly no budgets for book typesetting in > Indology and > I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other > words, the authors > have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. > Our publications > series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with > LaTeX, as are my publications > with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in > Germany. There is no institution > offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no > commercial interest in it and I > think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts > are used instead of transliteration). > > Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use > TeX internally, which is convenient, > but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, > frustrating in a way, but it also > gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own > dilettantic designs). > > Jürgen > > > perhaps this can be interesting > https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/ > (seen them at a context meeting years ago) > > -- > luigi > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist :ntg-context@ntg.nl /http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage :http://www.pragma-ade.nl /http://context.aanhet.net > archive :https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki :http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Agrégé de philosophie Ancients&Moderns "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 7412 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-08 11:40 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:52 ` BPJ via ntg-context 1 sibling, 2 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/8/2022 12:40 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote: > Luigi, > > Thank you for the link. > > Unfortunately this site mentions some typesetting work for research on > Stoicism (and other stuff) and on uploading the manuscripts of the > English philosopher John Locke, but apparently some links are dead and > the maintenance of the site seems to have stopped since ... 2011 . But > maybe Hans knows these people? It's a small dutch typesetting company doing work for afaik publishere in the the humanities and they are speciaized in non latin scripts (read: whatever can't be outsourced to large scale service far-far-away). They use their own plain tex macros (understandable and possible because no publishere can force to use a macro package for tricky typesetting). They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. Over the years we improved that (this also relates to better specs showing up and more fonts; the reference for rendering is microsoft uniscribe). We also stepwise improved the more complex bits and pieces of handling discretionaries with extensive (and complex) latin fonts (that they use and can test) as well as some fuzzy arabic fonts. it is the main reason why we have the generic font loader (i.e. most of the context fontloader works with plain (as we ship it) including some of the fancy stuff; latex used that code too but with patches and layers around it and maybe not all features but it switched to using libraries). So, indeed I know these (two) people, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Hagen via ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2697 bytes --] Thanks Hans for this detailed informations ! Le 08/01/2022 à 14:03, Hans Hagen via ntg-context a écrit : > On 1/8/2022 12:40 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote: >> Luigi, >> >> Thank you for the link. >> >> Unfortunately this site mentions some typesetting work for research >> on Stoicism (and other stuff) and on uploading the manuscripts of the >> English philosopher John Locke, but apparently some links are dead >> and the maintenance of the site seems to have stopped since ... 2011 >> . But maybe Hans knows these people? > It's a small dutch typesetting company doing work for afaik publishere > in the the humanities and they are speciaized in non latin scripts > (read: whatever can't be outsourced to large scale service > far-far-away). They use their own plain tex macros (understandable and > possible because no publishere can force to use a macro package for > tricky typesetting). > > They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari > code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. Over the > years we improved that (this also relates to better specs showing up > and more fonts; the reference for rendering is microsoft uniscribe). > We also stepwise improved the more complex bits and pieces of handling > discretionaries with extensive (and complex) latin fonts (that they > use and can test) as well as some fuzzy arabic fonts. it is the main > reason why we have the generic font loader (i.e. most of the context > fontloader works with plain (as we ship it) including some of the > fancy stuff; latex used that code too but with patches and layers > around it and maybe not all features but it switched to using libraries). > > So, indeed I know these (two) people, > > Hans > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 4191 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: adeimantos.vcf --] [-- Type: text/vcard, Size: 270 bytes --] begin:vcard fn:Jean-Pierre Delange n:Delange;Jean-Pierre org;quoted-printable:Acad=C3=A9mie de Versailles email;internet:adeimantos@free.fr title;quoted-printable:Agr=C3=A9g=C3=A9 de philosophie tel;cell:0673947496 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context ` (4 more replies) 1 sibling, 5 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 10:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: hanneder I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the > devanagari code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). Dear Hans, two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they concern hyphenation and font. 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few lines. The concept of "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language Sanskrit that hyphenates after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the original script). Of course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we need to be able to insert a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation also arises when a variant is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in critical editions. 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This is more a lamentation, not much one can do about it, I guess). When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists had to search for new fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I spent a lot of time with OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an otf font has the underdot characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, I found only one "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like Minion, for instance, but the latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still work, but many entries in the TeX Font Catalogue do not! Jürgen --- Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder Philipps-Universitaet Marburg FG Indologie u. Tibetologie Deutschhausstr.12 35032 Marburg Germany Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context 2022-01-09 16:18 ` Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-09 13:06 ` Critical Editions? Hans Hagen via ntg-context ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Robert via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: r.ermers Dear list, I am currently working on a critical edition as well, and follow the discussion with interest. For the time being, I prefer Latex over Context for this project. In addition to Jürgen's remarks on transcription fonts, a small contribution: Arabists and turcologists working with transcriptions used to have similar problems. In the nineties I adapted existing postscript fonts with Fontographer. I also made sure to copy kerning information from extant letters (e.g. a) to new ones (e.g. ā) with the required diacritic (usually dots, dashes and haceks). This was in the pre-unicode era. Today there is the Brill font which is quite extended, yet I am not sure if it can be used freely in other publications. Adapations to extant fonts can still be made with the open source app FontForge. Do not hesitate to contact me offline if you need help on this. Regards, Robert info@mo-perspectief.nl > Op 9 jan. 2022, om 11:23 heeft hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> het volgende geschreven: > > I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > >> They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. > > Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that > user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). > > > Dear Hans, > > two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they concern hyphenation and > font. > > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few lines. The concept of > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language Sanskrit that hyphenates > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the original script). Of > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we need to be able to insert > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation also arises when a variant > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in critical editions. > > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This is more a lamentation, not > much one can do about it, I guess). > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists had to search for new > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I spent a lot of time with > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an otf font has the underdot > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, I found only one > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like Minion, for instance, but the > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still work, but many entries in > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! > > > Jürgen > > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 16:18 ` BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-10 9:32 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: BPJ via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: BPJ [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6220 bytes --] Den sön 9 jan. 2022 13:22Robert via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> skrev: > Dear list, > > I am currently working on a critical edition as well, and follow the > discussion with interest. For the time being, I prefer Latex over Context > for this project. > > In addition to Jürgen's remarks on transcription fonts, a small > contribution: > > Arabists and turcologists working with transcriptions used to have similar > problems. In the nineties I adapted existing postscript fonts with > Fontographer. I also made sure to copy kerning information from extant > letters (e.g. a) to new ones (e.g. ā) with the required diacritic (usually > dots, dashes and haceks). This was in the pre-unicode era. > > Today there is the Brill font which is quite extended, yet I am not sure > if it can be used freely in other publications. > > Adapations to extant fonts can still be made with the open source app > FontForge. Do not hesitate to contact me offline if you need help on this. > The technically excellent free Google Noto Serif/Sans/Sans Mono fonts have quite extensive coverage of Latin/Greek/Cyrillic scripts. As an Indo-Europeanist turned programmer/editor/translator doing frequent forays into Uralic and Afroasiatic when wearing a more general historical linguistics hat I have found nothing missing. (If you need a Mono Font make sure to use Noto Sans Mono which has better coverage than Noto Mono!) https://fonts.google.com/noto Much the same can be said of the Charis SIL font from SIL International, although the current release lags behind Noto when it comes to coverage. https://software.sil.org/charis/ (Make sure to look at the downloads page for info on downloadable customized fonts!) There is also the Gentium SIL font with Greek and Cyrillic coverage as well as Latin, although its design may be a bit too swashy for academic work. If something *is* missing these are all licensed under the quite permissive Open Font License https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL-FAQ_web Publishers may have their own (ideas about) fonts but for course materials, handouts, manuscripts, databases and the like these are excellent. I do all my work in the Vim text editor (with Noto Sans Mono) and *TeX/Pandoc. Regards, /Benct > Regards, > > Robert > > info@mo-perspectief.nl > > > > Op 9 jan. 2022, om 11:23 heeft hanneder--- via ntg-context < > ntg-context@ntg.nl> het volgende geschreven: > > > > I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > > > >> They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari > code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. > > > > Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that > > user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). > > > > > > Dear Hans, > > > > two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they > concern hyphenation and > > font. > > > > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few > lines. The concept of > > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language > Sanskrit that hyphenates > > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, > u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the > original script). Of > > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we > need to be able to insert > > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation > also arises when a variant > > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in > critical editions. > > > > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This > is more a lamentation, not > > much one can do about it, I guess). > > > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as > a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists > had to search for new > > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I > spent a lot of time with > > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an > otf font has the underdot > > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, > I found only one > > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like > Minion, for instance, but the > > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still > work, but many entries in > > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! > > > > > > Jürgen > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > > Deutschhausstr.12 > > 35032 Marburg > > Germany > > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 9129 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) 2022-01-09 16:18 ` Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) BPJ via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 9:32 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2022-01-10 12:28 ` BPJ via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 9:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bpj, ntg-context; +Cc: denis.maier [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6454 bytes --] Cardo is another nice font: https://www.scholarsfonts.net/ Denis Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von BPJ via ntg-context Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Januar 2022 17:18 An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> Cc: BPJ <bpj@melroch.se> Betreff: [NTG-context] Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) Den sön 9 jan. 2022 13:22Robert via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> skrev: Dear list, I am currently working on a critical edition as well, and follow the discussion with interest. For the time being, I prefer Latex over Context for this project. In addition to Jürgen's remarks on transcription fonts, a small contribution: Arabists and turcologists working with transcriptions used to have similar problems. In the nineties I adapted existing postscript fonts with Fontographer. I also made sure to copy kerning information from extant letters (e.g. a) to new ones (e.g. ā) with the required diacritic (usually dots, dashes and haceks). This was in the pre-unicode era. Today there is the Brill font which is quite extended, yet I am not sure if it can be used freely in other publications. Adapations to extant fonts can still be made with the open source app FontForge. Do not hesitate to contact me offline if you need help on this. The technically excellent free Google Noto Serif/Sans/Sans Mono fonts have quite extensive coverage of Latin/Greek/Cyrillic scripts. As an Indo-Europeanist turned programmer/editor/translator doing frequent forays into Uralic and Afroasiatic when wearing a more general historical linguistics hat I have found nothing missing. (If you need a Mono Font make sure to use Noto Sans Mono which has better coverage than Noto Mono!) https://fonts.google.com/noto Much the same can be said of the Charis SIL font from SIL International, although the current release lags behind Noto when it comes to coverage. https://software.sil.org/charis/ (Make sure to look at the downloads page for info on downloadable customized fonts!) There is also the Gentium SIL font with Greek and Cyrillic coverage as well as Latin, although its design may be a bit too swashy for academic work. If something *is* missing these are all licensed under the quite permissive Open Font License https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL-FAQ_web Publishers may have their own (ideas about) fonts but for course materials, handouts, manuscripts, databases and the like these are excellent. I do all my work in the Vim text editor (with Noto Sans Mono) and *TeX/Pandoc. Regards, /Benct Regards, Robert info@mo-perspectief.nl<mailto:info@mo-perspectief.nl> > Op 9 jan. 2022, om 11:23 heeft hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> het volgende geschreven: > > I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > >> They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. > > Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that > user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). > > > Dear Hans, > > two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they concern hyphenation and > font. > > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few lines. The concept of > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language Sanskrit that hyphenates > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the original script). Of > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we need to be able to insert > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation also arises when a variant > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in critical editions. > > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This is more a lamentation, not > much one can do about it, I guess). > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists had to search for new > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I spent a lot of time with > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an otf font has the underdot > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, I found only one > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like Minion, for instance, but the > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still work, but many entries in > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! > > > Jürgen > > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de<mailto:hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de> > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 12621 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) 2022-01-10 9:32 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 12:28 ` BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-10 12:45 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: BPJ via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: denis.maier; +Cc: BPJ, mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7242 bytes --] Den mån 10 jan. 2022 10:34 <denis.maier@unibe.ch> skrev: > Cardo is another nice font: https://www.scholarsfonts.net/ > > > > Denis > Not entirely free last time I looked, and had issues with the rendering of its lowercase ‹o› (which I suspected was deliberately introduced in the free version, although that may be unwarranted geek paranoia! :-) BTW Doulos SIL is their Times clone, although it at least used to lack italics, which makes it a no-starter for most comparatists who use italics for object language. > > *Von:* ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> *Im Auftrag von *BPJ via > ntg-context > *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 9. Januar 2022 17:18 > *An:* mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > *Cc:* BPJ <bpj@melroch.se> > *Betreff:* [NTG-context] Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical > Editions?) > > > > > > Den sön 9 jan. 2022 13:22Robert via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > skrev: > > Dear list, > > I am currently working on a critical edition as well, and follow the > discussion with interest. For the time being, I prefer Latex over Context > for this project. > > In addition to Jürgen's remarks on transcription fonts, a small > contribution: > > Arabists and turcologists working with transcriptions used to have similar > problems. In the nineties I adapted existing postscript fonts with > Fontographer. I also made sure to copy kerning information from extant > letters (e.g. a) to new ones (e.g. ā) with the required diacritic (usually > dots, dashes and haceks). This was in the pre-unicode era. > > Today there is the Brill font which is quite extended, yet I am not sure > if it can be used freely in other publications. > > Adapations to extant fonts can still be made with the open source app > FontForge. Do not hesitate to contact me offline if you need help on this. > > > > The technically excellent free Google Noto Serif/Sans/Sans Mono fonts have > quite extensive coverage of Latin/Greek/Cyrillic scripts. As an > Indo-Europeanist turned programmer/editor/translator doing frequent forays > into Uralic and Afroasiatic when wearing a more general historical > linguistics hat I have found nothing missing. > > (If you need a Mono Font make sure to use Noto Sans Mono which has better > coverage than Noto Mono!) > > > > https://fonts.google.com/noto > > > > Much the same can be said of the Charis SIL font from SIL International, > although the current release lags behind Noto when it comes to coverage. > > > > https://software.sil.org/charis/ > > > > (Make sure to look at the downloads page for info on downloadable > customized fonts!) > > > > There is also the Gentium SIL font with Greek and Cyrillic coverage as > well as Latin, although its design may be a bit too swashy for academic > work. > > > > If something *is* missing these are all licensed under the quite > permissive Open Font License > > > > https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL-FAQ_web > > > > Publishers may have their own (ideas about) fonts but for course > materials, handouts, manuscripts, databases and the like these are > excellent. I do all my work in the Vim text editor (with Noto Sans Mono) > and *TeX/Pandoc. > > > > Regards, > > > > /Benct > > > > > > > Regards, > > Robert > > info@mo-perspectief.nl > > > > Op 9 jan. 2022, om 11:23 heeft hanneder--- via ntg-context < > ntg-context@ntg.nl> het volgende geschreven: > > > > I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > > > >> They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari > code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. > > > > Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that > > user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). > > > > > > Dear Hans, > > > > two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they > concern hyphenation and > > font. > > > > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few > lines. The concept of > > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language > Sanskrit that hyphenates > > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, > u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the > original script). Of > > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we > need to be able to insert > > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation > also arises when a variant > > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in > critical editions. > > > > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This > is more a lamentation, not > > much one can do about it, I guess). > > > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as > a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists > had to search for new > > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I > spent a lot of time with > > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an > otf font has the underdot > > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, > I found only one > > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like > Minion, for instance, but the > > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still > work, but many entries in > > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! > > > > > > Jürgen > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > > Deutschhausstr.12 > > 35032 Marburg > > Germany > > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 12838 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) 2022-01-10 12:28 ` BPJ via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 12:45 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Denis Maier via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bpj; +Cc: denis.maier, ntg-context [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7415 bytes --] Oh, thank’s for adding this. I’ll probably need to check whether these issues still exist. Denis Von: BPJ <bpj@melroch.se> Gesendet: Montag, 10. Januar 2022 13:29 An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB) <denis.maier@unibe.ch> Cc: bpj <bpj@melroch.se>; mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) Den mån 10 jan. 2022 10:34 <denis.maier@unibe.ch<mailto:denis.maier@unibe.ch>> skrev: Cardo is another nice font: https://www.scholarsfonts.net/ Denis Not entirely free last time I looked, and had issues with the rendering of its lowercase ‹o› (which I suspected was deliberately introduced in the free version, although that may be unwarranted geek paranoia! :-) BTW Doulos SIL is their Times clone, although it at least used to lack italics, which makes it a no-starter for most comparatists who use italics for object language. Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl>> Im Auftrag von BPJ via ntg-context Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Januar 2022 17:18 An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> Cc: BPJ <bpj@melroch.se<mailto:bpj@melroch.se>> Betreff: [NTG-context] Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) Den sön 9 jan. 2022 13:22Robert via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> skrev: Dear list, I am currently working on a critical edition as well, and follow the discussion with interest. For the time being, I prefer Latex over Context for this project. In addition to Jürgen's remarks on transcription fonts, a small contribution: Arabists and turcologists working with transcriptions used to have similar problems. In the nineties I adapted existing postscript fonts with Fontographer. I also made sure to copy kerning information from extant letters (e.g. a) to new ones (e.g. ā) with the required diacritic (usually dots, dashes and haceks). This was in the pre-unicode era. Today there is the Brill font which is quite extended, yet I am not sure if it can be used freely in other publications. Adapations to extant fonts can still be made with the open source app FontForge. Do not hesitate to contact me offline if you need help on this. The technically excellent free Google Noto Serif/Sans/Sans Mono fonts have quite extensive coverage of Latin/Greek/Cyrillic scripts. As an Indo-Europeanist turned programmer/editor/translator doing frequent forays into Uralic and Afroasiatic when wearing a more general historical linguistics hat I have found nothing missing. (If you need a Mono Font make sure to use Noto Sans Mono which has better coverage than Noto Mono!) https://fonts.google.com/noto Much the same can be said of the Charis SIL font from SIL International, although the current release lags behind Noto when it comes to coverage. https://software.sil.org/charis/ (Make sure to look at the downloads page for info on downloadable customized fonts!) There is also the Gentium SIL font with Greek and Cyrillic coverage as well as Latin, although its design may be a bit too swashy for academic work. If something *is* missing these are all licensed under the quite permissive Open Font License https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL-FAQ_web Publishers may have their own (ideas about) fonts but for course materials, handouts, manuscripts, databases and the like these are excellent. I do all my work in the Vim text editor (with Noto Sans Mono) and *TeX/Pandoc. Regards, /Benct Regards, Robert info@mo-perspectief.nl<mailto:info@mo-perspectief.nl> > Op 9 jan. 2022, om 11:23 heeft hanneder--- via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> het volgende geschreven: > > I was just writing a mail (below) and saw: > >> They do indic scripts and Kai made the first version of the devanagari code for the context fontloader code that I then optimized. > > Fascinating. Where can I learn more about that or is that > user-unfriendly (my technical knowledge is rather limited). > > > Dear Hans, > > two recurring problems are rather specifically Indological and they concern hyphenation and > font. > > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few lines. The concept of > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language Sanskrit that hyphenates > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in the original script). Of > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so we need to be able to insert > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation also arises when a variant > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance in critical editions. > > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This is more a lamentation, not > much one can do about it, I guess). > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime Sanskritists had to search for new > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I spent a lot of time with > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an otf font has the underdot > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial fonts, I found only one > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like Minion, for instance, but the > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still work, but many entries in > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! > > > Jürgen > > > > > --- > > Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder > Philipps-Universitaet Marburg > FG Indologie u. Tibetologie > Deutschhausstr.12 > 35032 Marburg > Germany > Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930 > hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de<mailto:hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de> > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 17216 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 13:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-09 22:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still > work, but many entries in > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! It's often not that bad when you use context ... % \enabletrackers[*comp*] \definefontfeature[default][default][compose=yes] \starttext ṥ \stoptext this feature has been there quite from the start of mkiv because otherwise mojca couldn't deal with her language Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context 2022-01-09 13:06 ` Critical Editions? Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 22:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-09 22:46 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-10 19:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 4 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > 2. Fonts that contain all necessary diacritics have become sparse. (This > is more a lamentation, not > much one can do about it, I guess). > > When I started TeXing people were used to writing aṭavī as > a\d{t}av{\=\i}. Not user friendly, > but it worked with many fonts. With each new font regime > Sanskritists had to search for new > fonts, invent work-arounds etc. Even the most promising attempts (I > spent a lot of time with > OmegaTeX) eventually disappeared. Now we are dependent on whether an > otf font has the underdot > characters (ṭḍṃḥ) and the vowels (āīūṛ). Within the commercial > fonts, I found only one > "Brotschrift" that worked, which is Adobe Text Pro. I really like > Minion, for instance, but the > latest otf Version has no ṭ etc. > > Thank god, we have many TeX fonts derived from older ones that still > work, but many entries in > the TeX Font Catalogue do not! Because minion has no bottom accent ... in a next version you can try this: \starttext \definefontfeature[default][default][fakecombining=yes,compose=yes] \setupbodyfont[minion] [x][\char"2D9][x][\char"323] ṭḍṃḥ \stoptext there are more such accents but i have no time not to collect them (maybe we need a mechanism for missing / patching characters in lfg files like we have for math) because in the end 'generic' heuristics might fails us Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2022-01-09 22:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 22:46 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-10 11:26 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 2022-01-10 19:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 4 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-09 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few > lines. The concept of > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language > Sanskrit that hyphenates > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, > ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in > the original script). Of > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so > we need to be able to insert > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation > also arises when a variant > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance > in critical editions. two things here: transliterations ... do we need a mechanism for that ? latin in -> something else out (if so i need specs) hypenation ... so no patterns, just injecting discretionaries after specific vowels ... doable but it has to happen a some specific moment because when language bound it's too soon, and the font handler does some reshuffling; it can probabloy best be done after fonts have been done ... given specs a typical rainy weekend activity Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 22:46 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 11:26 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 2022-01-10 13:31 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 11:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Arthur Rosendahl On Sun, Jan 09, 2022 at 11:46:44PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: > On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: >> 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few >> lines. The concept of >> "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. >> >> What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language >> Sanskrit that hyphenates >> after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, >> ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The >> last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in >> the original script). Of >> course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so >> we need to be able to insert >> a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. >> >> I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation >> also arises when a variant >> is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance >> in critical editions. > > hypenation ... so no patterns, just injecting discretionaries after specific > vowels ... doable but it has to happen a some specific moment because when > language bound it's too soon, and the font handler does some reshuffling; it > can probabloy best be done after fonts have been done ... given specs a > typical rainy weekend activity There are patterns, that implement almost exactly the kind of automatic hyphenation Jürgen describes (see https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/blob/master/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-sa.tex#L50L134). They’re just not in the ConTeXt distribution ... Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-10 11:26 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 13:31 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-10 14:18 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 0 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Jean-Pierre Delange Thank you very much Arthur ! Yves Codet (Assistant Professor at Toulouse University, member of CRAPA an institutional public research in Humanities in South of France) is involved in TeX patterns for Greek and Indic languages. He is a translator of Indian theater pieces (among other things). See there : https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/hyphenation/sanhyph And his involvement in the discussion about Devanagari romanisation for translitteration and/or specific UTF8 specification in order to respect Devanagari and Brahmi hyphenation with XeTeX. https://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2008-October/010904.html Le 10/01/2022 à 12:26, Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context a écrit : > On Sun, Jan 09, 2022 at 11:46:44PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: >> On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: >>> 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few >>> lines. The concept of >>> "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. >>> >>> What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language >>> Sanskrit that hyphenates >>> after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, >>> ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The >>> last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in >>> the original script). Of >>> course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so >>> we need to be able to insert >>> a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. >>> >>> I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation >>> also arises when a variant >>> is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance >>> in critical editions. >> hypenation ... so no patterns, just injecting discretionaries after specific >> vowels ... doable but it has to happen a some specific moment because when >> language bound it's too soon, and the font handler does some reshuffling; it >> can probabloy best be done after fonts have been done ... given specs a >> typical rainy weekend activity > There are patterns, that implement almost exactly the kind of > automatic hyphenation Jürgen describes (see > https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/blob/master/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-sa.tex#L50L134). > They’re just not in the ConTeXt distribution ... > > Arthur > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Jean-Pierre Delange Ancients&Moderns Professeur Agrégé de Philosophie (HC) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-10 13:31 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 14:18 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Arthur Rosendahl On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 02:31:53PM +0100, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote: > Yves Codet (Assistant Professor at Toulouse University, member of CRAPA an > institutional public research in Humanities in South of France) is involved > in TeX patterns for Greek and Indic languages. He is a translator of Indian > theater pieces (among other things). Yes, the GitHub repository I linked to contains the up-to-date version of Yves’ Sanskrit patterns (latest substantive revision September 2011). They support Latin transliteration and a number of modern Indic scripts, but not Brahmi, which I’m sure he’ll be happy to add if there’s a need. Yves has not as far as I know been involved in the development of hyphenation patterns for Greek (whether Ancient or Modern). Best, Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2022-01-09 22:46 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 19:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-11 16:20 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 4 siblings, 1 reply; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-10 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hanneder--- via ntg-context; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/9/2022 11:23 AM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > 1. In Sanskrit prose it is possible to produce compounds that span a few > lines. The concept of > "word" or "word division" fails here, as are the TeX mechanisms. > > What we need in practice would be a "hyphenation" for the language > Sanskrit that hyphenates > after all Sanskrit vowels (in transcription this would be a, ā, i, > ī, u, ū, ṛ, ḷ, e, o, ai, au. The > last two cannot be split, "au" is one vowel with one vowel sign in > the original script). Of > course, we want to improve this automatic spelling occasionally, so > we need to be able to insert > a \- without thereby disabling the hyphenation for this compound. > > I think in critical editions the problem of the disabled hyphenation > also arises when a variant > is added inside a word. In any case hyphenation is a real nuisance > in critical editions. I can add sanskit patterns to the distribution but I wonder: how does this interact with reordering in fonts? Do we need to postpone hyphenation till after reordering? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-10 19:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-11 16:20 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context @ 2022-01-11 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Arthur Rosendahl On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 08:06:14PM +0100, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: > I can add sanskit patterns to the distribution but I wonder: how does this > interact with reordering in fonts? Do we need to postpone hyphenation till > after reordering? If you mean glyph reordering in Indic scripts, it should happen later than hyphenation; it’s no different than ligatures in Latin in that respect. But I don’t know how it is implemented in ConTeXt ... The existing patterns don’t hyphenate any reordering sign (or indeed any dependent vowel sign). If they do, it’s a bug and we need to fix it :-) Note that Jürgen mentioned Latin transliteration where glyph reordering is not an issue (but ligatures of course are). Best, Arthur ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-08 11:40 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 17:52 ` BPJ via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: BPJ via ntg-context @ 2022-01-08 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: BPJ [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5175 bytes --] Den lör 8 jan. 2022 12:44Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> skrev: > Luigi, > > Thank you for the link. > > Unfortunately this site mentions some typesetting work for research on > Stoicism (and other stuff) and on uploading the manuscripts of the English > philosopher John Locke, but apparently some links are dead and the > maintenance of the site seems to have stopped since ... 2011 . > Maybe that is why they talk about "special TeX fonts"? Surely today they would use an engine which can use conventional Unicode fonts directly? But maybe Hans knows these people? > > see here : https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/projects.php?lang=en#h3 > > These fellows seem to work for Brepols and Oxford >University Press > asswell as Utrecht University. > > Read this curious assertion (curious because the text mention an invisible > project) : > "Stoa Project > > The Stoa Project, which is carried out by the history working group of the Department > of philosophy <http://www.phil.uu.nl/> of Utrecht University, will lead > to a renewed publication of text fragments of the early Stoa, represented > by philosophers such as Zeno, Chrysippus and Cleanthes. Very little of our > knowledge about the Stoa comes from primary sources; most of what we know > about it has been derived from secondary sources. Our most important > sources are other philosophers and doxographers, who have cited and > paraphrased the learnings of the early Stoa. Through modern research on > doxographic traditions and republications of many of the sources, the > current publication of this material, J. von Arnim’s Stoicorum Veterum > Fragmenta (1903-1924) has become outdated. > > TAT Zetwerk’s role in this project is managing the FileMaker database that > contains Stoic text fragments (mainly in ancient Greek) accompanied by text > critical and historic-philosophical notes, an English translation, and meta > data. As soon as the text parts in the database have reached their final > form, we convert them into a TeX-format, so that we can generate a mirrored > critical edition. We can then create indices and concordances by using the > meta data from the database. Currently, the Stoa Project does not have its > own website." > If I understand, TAT Zetwerk manage Apple FileMaker database of pieces of > Stoicorum Fragmenta texts (von Arnim edition) in order to convert them in > TeX form (with critical apparatus...). But they give no sample. > > > Le 07/01/2022 à 18:35, luigi scarso via ntg-context a écrit : > > > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:25 PM hanneder--- via ntg-context < > ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > >> >> Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar. >> As I indicated, there are mostly no budgets for book typesetting in >> Indology and >> I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other >> words, the authors >> have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. >> Our publications >> series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with >> LaTeX, as are my publications >> with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in >> Germany. There is no institution >> offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no >> commercial interest in it and I >> think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts >> are used instead of transliteration). >> >> Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use >> TeX internally, which is convenient, >> but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, >> frustrating in a way, but it also >> gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own >> dilettantic designs). >> >> Jürgen >> > > perhaps this can be interesting > https://www.tatzetwerk.nl/ > (seen them at a context meeting years ago) > > > -- > luigi > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > Jean-Pierre Delange > Agrégé de philosophie > Ancients&Moderns > "Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas" - Lord Acton > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 8909 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
* Re: Critical Editions? 2022-01-07 17:25 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-07 17:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 18:31 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 1 sibling, 0 replies; 57+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2022-01-07 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On 1/7/2022 6:25 PM, hanneder--- via ntg-context wrote: > > Probably the situation in South Asian Studies (Indology) is peculiar. > As I indicated, there are mostly no budgets for book typesetting in > Indology and > I know of no real expert for typesetting in this field. In other words, > the authors > have do it themselves, usually in Word etc., but some do use TeX etc. > Our publications > series (Indologica Marpurgensia) is, for instance, all done with LaTeX, > as are my publications > with Harrassowitz, which is the largest publisher in our field in > Germany. There is no institution > offering typesetting of Sanskrit editions, because there is no > commercial interest in it and I > think there is no expertise for this (especially when Indian scripts are > used instead of transliteration). there was a time that publishers had some pride in offering low volume publications and paid for that by large volume succes stories ... but those were real publishers (persons, not companies) > Journals are different. Indological journals published by Brill use TeX > internally, which is convenient, > but most others know only Word (->InDesign). That is the situation, > frustrating in a way, but it also > gives some freedom for using TeX (and, sadly, creating one's own > dilettantic designs). that brings me to the question: what do those who are independent from publishers really want in a typeseting system .. not bound by what a specific publisher with no real interest but profit demands i'm often puzzled by the fact that in spite of what technology (and thereby tex) makes possible is not used to its full extend .. (my favourite exmaple: why go along the troublesome accessibility path instead of providing plenty variants that suit specific users and publish the sources so that those interested in it can do it ... interestingly easy audio inclusion was dropped from pdf instead of adding means to attach that to a stretch of text) .. i think publishers were never really interested in those things (no reserch lab anyway) so ... what features would make *you* happy if you didn't have to take publishing (which doesn't happen) and tradition (imposed by those who don't publish your work anyway) into account but could produce the best for your reader Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 57+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-11 16:20 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 57+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-12-21 9:50 Critical Editions? hanneder--- via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:06 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2021-12-21 10:51 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2021-12-24 12:07 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2021-12-24 16:39 ` Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context 2022-01-03 9:43 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-03 10:32 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-03 13:37 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-03 20:46 ` STIX2 font issues with freshly installed FMTX Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context [not found] ` <C24ABDC0-DB51-46B8-9D38-4136BE590017@me.com> [not found] ` <3EF0489B-E388-4E1D-A14A-DE46EE607E40@me.com> 2022-01-05 14:03 ` STIX2 font issues with freshly installed LMTX Heinrich Paeßens via ntg-context 2022-01-04 12:38 ` Critical Editions? Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 2022-01-04 17:54 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-04 20:02 ` Thomas A. Schmitz via ntg-context 2022-01-04 23:00 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 8:43 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 9:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 11:54 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:34 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 13:06 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:34 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 15:43 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2022-01-05 16:13 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-05 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 18:38 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 22:15 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-04 12:42 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-04 11:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-05 11:52 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 12:29 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-05 17:39 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-05 19:05 ` Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:31 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-06 16:57 ` Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 2022-01-06 17:47 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-06 18:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-06 19:00 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context 2022-01-07 17:25 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-07 17:35 ` luigi scarso via ntg-context 2022-01-08 11:40 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-08 13:03 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:28 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-09 10:23 ` hanneder--- via ntg-context 2022-01-09 11:50 ` Robert via ntg-context 2022-01-09 16:18 ` Fonts for transliteration (was: Critical Editions?) BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-10 9:32 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2022-01-10 12:28 ` BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-10 12:45 ` Denis Maier via ntg-context 2022-01-09 13:06 ` Critical Editions? Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-09 22:41 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-09 22:46 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-10 11:26 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 2022-01-10 13:31 ` Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context 2022-01-10 14:18 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 2022-01-10 19:06 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context 2022-01-11 16:20 ` Arthur Rosendahl via ntg-context 2022-01-08 17:52 ` BPJ via ntg-context 2022-01-07 18:31 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
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