PDF viewer

PDF viewer

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Hi all,
I compiled a kind of wishlist what we need or look for in a new or 
enhanced open source PDF viewer, as discussed e.g. at the 2021 meeting.

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDF_viewer

I’d like to further the subject to find a developer (or a team) and make 
this a reality. (Of course I’d be happy to have Michal on board!)

Feel free to enhance the wiki page or discuss here.

I suggest we’ll discuss funding in the context group board, but there 
was also a discussion about fundraising at the 2022 meeting that I 
didn’t follow – I think Paulo said he had experience in fundraising?

Hraban
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Re: PDF viewer

[Max Chernoff via ntg-context]

Hi Hraban,

> I compiled a kind of wishlist what we need or look for in a new or 
> enhanced open source PDF viewer, as discussed e.g. at the 2021 meeting.
> 
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDF_viewer
> 
> Feel free to enhance the wiki page or discuss here.

I think that pdf.js (the Firefox PDF viewer) meets most of these
requirements. There are a few requirements that it doesn't meet, but
it's open source and written in JavaScript, so we should be able to add
anything that's missing.

Going down the list on the Wiki:

> in general:
>  - PDF 2.0 compatible

It can open PDF 2.0 files, but I doubt that it supports every single
feature.

>  - proper color and transparency display (respect color profiles)

It supports all of the PDF colour models/profiles for vectors, although
it ignores embedded colour profiles in images.

   https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/2856

Regular RGB and CMYK stuff works fine though.

>  - limited JavaScript support (no modification, no file operations)

Yes, although it is quite limited:

   https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/

>  - search

Yes.

>  - update on file change (configurable)

Not by default in Firefox. It works fine in this extension though:

   https://github.com/tomoki1207/vscode-pdfviewer

>  - keyboard control for as much as possible (but also menus/menubars)

Yes

>  - sidebar for bookmarks/ToC

Yes

>  - SyncTeX support

Not in Firefox, although there are patches to enable it:

   https://github.com/James-Yu/LaTeX-Workshop/blob/cff1a372/viewer/components/synctex.ts
   https://github.com/tomoki1207/vscode-pdfviewer/blob/92fecdb8/src/pdfPreview.ts

>  - accessibility (e.g. alternative text must work)

I've never used it, but it looks like there's good support:

   https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/

>  - access to file attachments (lower priority)

Surprisingly, yes.

> for presentations:
>  - presentation mode (full screen, no visible controls, on one 
>    monitor/beamer of choice)

Yes.

>  - JS for controlling optional content groups (OCGs, Viewer Layers)

You can toggle all the layers in the side panel. I don't think that you
can toggle via buttons or JS though.

>  - inner- and inter-document links must work

Yes; however, inter-document links are sometimes limited depending for
security reasons. I'm sure that this can be configured though.

>  - multimedia support at least via links (suggestion: use “plain Rich
>    Media” approach with OS’ default player)

I don't think so, although I guess you could include a video file as an
attachment.

>  - transition effects not necessary (but if the developer has fun
>    including them, go on)

No transition effects.

> for forms:
>  - fill in

Yes.

>  - print documents with/without form contents

Yes.

>  - same-ID fields on different pages must be synchronized

No idea.

>  - custom checkmarks/radiobuttons should work & display correctly

Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

>  - JS for calculations

Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

> for annotations (correction workflow; generally just nice to have):
>  - similar to Adobe/Foxit Reader

Reading annotations works, but you can't modify anything.

> for development/debugging:
>  - show metadata (incl. XMP), e.g. in a sidebar or dialog

You can see all the "regular" metadata, but XMP doesn't work.

>  - show fonts metadata (inclusion etc.)

No.

>  - show PDF Boxes (MediaBox, CropBox, TrimBox, BleedBox, ArtBox) as
>    colored frames, switchable via preferences and menu (bar) item

No.

>  - check for PDF/A and PDF/X compliance would be nice (integrate
>    VeraPDF?)

>  - FOSS license

Yes. (Apache 2.0)

>  - should at least work on Windows, MacOS (preferably 10.14+), Linux
>    and *BSD; iOS & Android versions would be nice

It's built in to Firefox, so it works on Windows, macOS, Linux, and the
BSDs. It should also work on mobile, although support is a little
spottier there.

>  - how about (long term) support?

It should be supported as long as Firefox exists.

>  - Funding

Overleaf uses pdf.js as its default PDF viewer, so they may perhaps be
willing to help.

~~~~~~~~~~

I've been using pdf.js almost exclusively for the past few years either
via Firefox or VS Code, and I've never really had any problems. The only
real issue that I've had is that it gets fairly slow with documents over
a few thousand pages long. Otherwise, it seems pretty fast and stable,
and it supports nearly every feature that I tend to need.

Since it's written in JavaScript, it should be fairly easy to modify,
and it should run on nearly everything.

-- Max


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Re: PDF viewer

[Alan Braslau via ntg-context]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:47:50 -0600
Max Chernoff via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> I've been using pdf.js almost exclusively for the past few years
> either via Firefox or VS Code, and I've never really had any
> problems. The only real issue that I've had is that it gets fairly
> slow with documents over a few thousand pages long. Otherwise, it
> seems pretty fast and stable, and it supports nearly every feature
> that I tend to need.

I have never used firefox to display pdf files. I just tried it and
find that it has an interesting feature of caching rendered pages.

Pages with complicated graphics (think MetaPost with hundreds of
thousands of objects) get rendered pretty quickly, although one can see
the very many objects being drawn the first time the page is displayed.
Subsequently displays of these pages have no lag whatsoever.

Alan
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Re: PDF viewer

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Am 23.09.22 um 02:47 schrieb Max Chernoff:

>> I compiled a kind of wishlist what we need or look for in a new or
>> enhanced open source PDF viewer, as discussed e.g. at the 2021 meeting.
>>
>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDF_viewer
>>
>> Feel free to enhance the wiki page or discuss here.
> 
> I think that pdf.js (the Firefox PDF viewer) meets most of these
> requirements. There are a few requirements that it doesn't meet, but
> it's open source and written in JavaScript, so we should be able to add
> anything that's missing.

You’re right, pdf.js is quite good, and it’s already used by a lot of 
projects (browsers, editor plugins etc.) – the latter also means that 
you often encounter old/buggy/limited versions.

Unfortunately, Firefox doesn’t register itself as a PDF viewer (at least 
on MacOS), that means I can’t use it easily to open a PDF from the 
command line (e.g. in scripts).

But anyway, that could shift our focus to add/enable features for pdf.js 
in TeX editors.


>>   - PDF 2.0 compatible
> 
> It can open PDF 2.0 files, but I doubt that it supports every single
> feature.

I won’t expect every feature, there are too many. Actually I don’t know 
which features of PDF 2.0 Hans was missing in viewers.

>>   - proper color and transparency display (respect color profiles)
> 
> It supports all of the PDF colour models/profiles for vectors, although
> it ignores embedded colour profiles in images.
> 
>     https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/2856
> 
> Regular RGB and CMYK stuff works fine though.

That’s a problem if you prepare PDFs for printing. Apple’s PDF library 
(used e.g. in Preview.app, Skim, TeXshop) also does a bad job at it, as 
well as Sumatra and Chrome (according to the comments to that ticket).

>>   - limited JavaScript support (no modification, no file operations)
> 
> Yes, although it is quite limited:
> 
>     https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/

Thank you for the link!

What they write about the scope of JS in pdf.js sounds good; but 
presentation stuff like buttons (e.g. for OCG) is probably missing.

I need to check the limits of forms in pdf.js; but Mozilla even 
implemented XFA (e.g. Qoppa didn’t).

>>   - update on file change (configurable)
> 
> Not by default in Firefox. It works fine in this extension though:
> 
>     https://github.com/tomoki1207/vscode-pdfviewer

There it’s probably the editor framework that enables refresh. (Same 
experience with pdf.js in Atom.)

>>   - SyncTeX support
> 
> Not in Firefox, although there are patches to enable it:
> 
>     https://github.com/James-Yu/LaTeX-Workshop/blob/cff1a372/viewer/components/synctex.ts
>     https://github.com/tomoki1207/vscode-pdfviewer/blob/92fecdb8/src/pdfPreview.ts

One of the Atom plugins was supposed to have it, but it didn’t work... 
(SyncTeX with ConTeXt is special anyway, we need to look into that again.)

>>   - accessibility (e.g. alternative text must work)
> 
> I've never used it, but it looks like there's good support:
> 
>     https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/

Sounds good.

>>   - JS for controlling optional content groups (OCGs, Viewer Layers)
> 
> You can toggle all the layers in the side panel. I don't think that you
> can toggle via buttons or JS though.

Same as in Okular. OCG control via JS would enable stepwise 
presentations and simple animations.

>>   - inner- and inter-document links must work
> 
> Yes; however, inter-document links are sometimes limited depending for
> security reasons. I'm sure that this can be configured though.

Of course; I just meant it would be handy to be able to jump between 
PDFs in the same directory.

>>   - multimedia support at least via links (suggestion: use “plain Rich
>>     Media” approach with OS’ default player)
> 
> I don't think so, although I guess you could include a video file as an
> attachment.

A question for Michal...

>>   - transition effects not necessary (but if the developer has fun
>>     including them, go on)
> 
> No transition effects.
> 
>> for forms:
>>   - fill in
> Yes.

Just checked again with current Firefox: It doesn’t work with all of my 
test files.

>>   - print documents with/without form contents
> Yes.

I couldn’t find an option to print without form contents. (But usually 
you would want filled forms, so “with” is ok.)

>>   - same-ID fields on different pages must be synchronized
> 
> No idea.

If the form generally works, this does also.
I listed it because it’s a problem in some viewers.

>>   - custom checkmarks/radiobuttons should work & display correctly
> 
> Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
>>   - JS for calculations
> 
> Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Need to check further...

>> for annotations (correction workflow; generally just nice to have):
>>   - similar to Adobe/Foxit Reader
> 
> Reading annotations works, but you can't modify anything.

Ok. There’s still no PDF viewer on Linux that can handle annotations 
well. (But even Acrobat Reader on MacOS frequently crashes on them; I’m 
using Foxit Reader for annotations, but the one for Linux is too old.)

>> for development/debugging:
>>   - show metadata (incl. XMP), e.g. in a sidebar or dialog
> 
> You can see all the "regular" metadata, but XMP doesn't work.

That should be easy to add, since pdf.js can handle Tagged PDF (XML 
parser included).

>>   - show fonts metadata (inclusion etc.)
> No.

Pity. Should also not be too difficult, since the viewer needs the data 
anyway.

>>   - show PDF Boxes (MediaBox, CropBox, TrimBox, BleedBox, ArtBox) as
>>     colored frames, switchable via preferences and menu (bar) item
> No.

Of course. There’s no viewer except Adobe Reader that shows these. But 
it’s an important feature for print preparation and should be easy to 
implement.

>>   - Funding
> Overleaf uses pdf.js as its default PDF viewer, so they may perhaps be
> willing to help.

At least with SyncTeX support and other closely TeX-related stuff.

> I've been using pdf.js almost exclusively for the past few years either
> via Firefox or VS Code, and I've never really had any problems. The only
> real issue that I've had is that it gets fairly slow with documents over
> a few thousand pages long. Otherwise, it seems pretty fast and stable,
> and it supports nearly every feature that I tend to need.

Well, documents with thousands of pages are probably unreliable/slow in 
most viewers.

> Since it's written in JavaScript, it should be fairly easy to modify,
> and it should run on nearly everything.

Thank you!

Hraban

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Re: PDF viewer

[luigi scarso via ntg-context]

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On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 8:08 PM Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I compiled a kind of wishlist what we need or look for in a new or
> enhanced open source PDF viewer, as discussed e.g. at the 2021 meeting.
>
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDF_viewer
>
>
slightly off-topic
1)   gs has a new pdf viewer
 https://www.ghostscript.com/blog/pdfi.html
but of course I think that they push on mupdf

2) EBookDroid - PDF & DJVU Reader is a very nice pdf viewer for android,
especially on 10" tablets. It's based on mupdf.

It seems that mupdf is more suited to be embedded into / used for
embedding   other programs:
latest mupdf (1.20, iirc)  has a js console and  I think you can interact
with the viewer -- sort of the js console of the browser;
I haven't seen how yet, perhaps you can add objects on the fly to the
documents, in this case one can think of embedding a
small luatex (no harms,  after all mupdf it's already a big binary) and add
(pdf)objects by scripting.


-- 
luigi

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Re: PDF viewer

[Max Chernoff via ntg-context]

Hi Hraban,

> Unfortunately, Firefox doesn’t register itself as a PDF viewer (at least 
> on MacOS), that means I can’t use it easily to open a PDF from the 
> command line (e.g. in scripts).

That's odd. You can set it as the default PDF viewer on Windows and
Linux at least.

> >> for forms:
> >>   - fill in
> > Yes.
> 
> Just checked again with current Firefox: It doesn’t work with all of my 
> test files.

I tested it with the eforms manual:

   http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/acrotex/doc/eformman.pdf
   
and it seems to work fine for me. I've also used it to fill out a few
government forms in the past and it's worked too. Unfortunately, I think
that there are like 12 incompatible ways of making a form in PDF, so
support probably heavily depends on how the document was made.

> >>   - print documents with/without form contents
> > Yes.
> 
> I couldn’t find an option to print without form contents. (But usually
> you would want filled forms, so “with” is ok.)

Well if you refresh the page, you can delete everything that you've
filled in :)

> >>   - custom checkmarks/radiobuttons should work & display correctly
> > 
> > Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> > 
> >>   - JS for calculations
> > 
> > Usually it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Need to check further...

I checked with the eforms manual linked above. Check marks and radio
buttons seem to work, but calculations don't.

> >> for annotations (correction workflow; generally just nice to have):
> >>   - similar to Adobe/Foxit Reader
> > 
> > Reading annotations works, but you can't modify anything.
> 
> Ok. There’s still no PDF viewer on Linux that can handle annotations 
> well. (But even Acrobat Reader on MacOS frequently crashes on them; I’m 
> using Foxit Reader for annotations, but the one for Linux is too old.)

Microsoft Edge has decent PDF annotation support. I've never tested it
on Linux, but a Linux version does exist. Okular also lets you add some
annotations.


> > I've been using pdf.js almost exclusively for the past few years either
> > via Firefox or VS Code, and I've never really had any problems. The only
> > real issue that I've had is that it gets fairly slow with documents over
> > a few thousand pages long. Otherwise, it seems pretty fast and stable,
> > and it supports nearly every feature that I tend to need.
> 
> Well, documents with thousands of pages are probably unreliable/slow in 
> most viewers.

I've got a 1.1GB document with 16000 pages, and Okular handles it just
as fast as a 10 page document. Firefox at least manages to not crash
when opening the document, which is better than most viewers.

Okular is actually a pretty nice viewer in general. It's really fast,
and it also seems to support most of these features. The tricky thing
with it though is that I think that it would be much harder to modify
compared to pdf.js.

-- Max

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Re: PDF viewer

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 9/22/22 20:07, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
> […]
> I suggest we’ll discuss funding in the context group board, but there
> was also a discussion about fundraising at the 2022 meeting that I
> didn’t follow – I think Paulo said he had experience in fundraising?

Hi Hraban,

sorry if I’m misreading, but I’m afraid I wasn’t able to find any Paulo
in the messages I have from this list.

Now I wonder who he might be.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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Re: PDF viewer

[Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context]

On 23 Sep 2022, at 08:59, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, Firefox doesn’t register itself as a PDF viewer (at least on MacOS), that means I can’t use it easily to open a PDF from the command line (e.g. in scripts).

The following works for me in Monterey on an Intel Mac:

$ /Applications/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox test.pdf  

—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK

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Re: PDF viewer

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 9/23/22 12:18, Max Chernoff via ntg-context wrote:
>> Unfortunately, Firefox doesn’t register itself as a PDF viewer (at
>> least on MacOS), that means I can’t use it easily to open a PDF
>> from the command line (e.g. in scripts).
>
> That's odd. You can set it as the default PDF viewer on Windows and
> Linux at least.

Hi Hraban,

I know you wrote scripts, but here you have two links on how to set
another PDF default viewer:

  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7883441
  https://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-change-default-pdf-viewer-on-mac/

And to open PDF documents from scripts, once the default viewer is set,
it seems that "open" is the right way to go (similar to "xdge-open" in
Linux).


>>> […]
>>>> - JS for calculations

I would love that JS worked fine in PDF.js.

I was surprised that not even this worked fine
(https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/13918):

  this.pageNum = this.numPages ;

I would love that the kind of presentation contained in
https://free-culture.tk could be displayed as
https://www.vector-video.tk/bga-presvoz.pdf (only Acrobat seems to be
able to deal with it).

If PDF.js could deal with multimedia and JS in PDF, other audio formats
than MP3 (such as Opus) could be used.

>>>> for annotations […]
>>> Reading annotations works, but you can't modify anything.
>> […]
> Microsoft Edge has decent PDF annotation support. I've never tested
> it on Linux, but a Linux version does exist. Okular also lets you add
> some annotations.

Annotations may be part of a PDF viewer, but the problem is that in some
projects they understand that the feature to add them is part of a PDF
editor (so annotations won’t be added).

I think this is what happened to annotations in Evince (but I may be
wrong here). And I wonder whether PDF.js might take this approach.

Just in case it might help,

Pablo
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Re: PDF viewer

[juh via ntg-context]

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Am Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 06:47:50PM -0600 schrieb Max Chernoff via ntg-context:
> I think that pdf.js (the Firefox PDF viewer) meets most of these
> requirements. There are a few requirements that it doesn't meet, but
> it's open source and written in JavaScript, so we should be able to add
> anything that's missing.
> 

I found a nasty bug in firefox.

https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2022/105212.html

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1781022

juh


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Re: PDF viewer

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 9/25/22 17:24, juh via ntg-context wrote:
> Am Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 06:47:50PM -0600 schrieb Max Chernoff via ntg-context:
>> I think that pdf.js (the Firefox PDF viewer) meets most of these
>> requirements. There are a few requirements that it doesn't meet, but
>> it's open source and written in JavaScript, so we should be able to add
>> anything that's missing.
>
> I found a nasty bug in firefox.
>
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2022/105212.html
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1781022

As Jonathan Kew explained, TeX Gyre Heros is also poorly displayed with
Acrobat. The issue may be trickier than we thought (since fixing Firefox
with Heros+LMTX is only part of the issue).

Just as a personal note, I tend to avoid using Heros with LMTX, since
resulting PDF documents may be displayed (poorly on screen) with Acrobat.

I wonder whether this is related to common code for both Acrobat and
Firefox (originally comming from
https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2013-05/msg00000.html).

Pablo
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Re: PDF viewer

[Willi Egger via ntg-context]

Hi Pablo,

Hraban refers to Paulo Ney de Souza from US. He recently joined the ConTeXt meeting and indeed he mentioned that TUG had a fund raising campaign which was successful.

Kind regards
Willi

> On 23 Sep 2022, at 17:23, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 9/22/22 20:07, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
>> […]
>> I suggest we’ll discuss funding in the context group board, but there
>> was also a discussion about fundraising at the 2022 meeting that I
>> didn’t follow – I think Paulo said he had experience in fundraising?
> 
> Hi Hraban,
> 
> sorry if I’m misreading, but I’m afraid I wasn’t able to find any Paulo
> in the messages I have from this list.
> 
> Now I wonder who he might be.
> 
> Many thanks for your help,
> 
> Pablo
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Re: PDF viewer

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 9/26/22 16:44, Willi Egger via ntg-context wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
>
> Hraban refers to Paulo Ney de Souza from US. He recently joined the
> ConTeXt meeting and indeed he mentioned that TUG had a fund raising
> campaign which was successful.
Many thanks for your replies, Hraban and Willi.

Pablo
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