(fake) bold as font feature

(fake) bold as font feature

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Hans,

would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
font feature) that fakes the bold font with
\starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?

This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
(https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> Hans,
> 
> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?

much is possible if i can motivate myself

> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at 
the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add 
something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which 
is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx 
meeting luatex release)

(even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when 
loading a font)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> Hans,
>>
>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
> 
> much is possible if i can motivate myself
> 
>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at 
> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add 
> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which 
> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx 
> meeting luatex release)
> 
> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when 
> loading a font)
i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or 
1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>> Hans,
>>>
>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>
>> much is possible if i can motivate myself

Good to know in order to propose new features :-).

>>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
>> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at 
>> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add 
>> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which 
>> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx 
>> meeting luatex release)
>>
>> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when 
>> loading a font)
> i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or 
> 1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient

Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
versions (1.08 v. 1.07).

Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/26/2018 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Hans,
>>>>
>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>
>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
> 
> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
> 
>>>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>>>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
>>> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at
>>> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add
>>> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which
>>> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx
>>> meeting luatex release)
>>>
>>> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when
>>> loading a font)
>> i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or
>> 1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient
> 
> Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
> Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
> versions (1.08 v. 1.07).
> 
> Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
> latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?
only after tex live has been frozen (tag 1.07) we will officially move 
to 1.08 (then trunk)

windows always has the edge as Akira compiles the latest greatest too so 
that permits experiments (he also always tests it so that helps us a lot)

don't expect support for experimental versions on this mailing list as 
we feel free to change whatever we like

(fwiw: we don't expect huge functionality changes .. the biggest change 
coming is lua 5.3 which can have a few consequences for those writing 
lua as well as a 5-10 % performance boost)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/27/2018 09:01 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
>> Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
>> Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
>> versions (1.08 v. 1.07).
>>
>> Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
>> latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?
> only after tex live has been frozen (tag 1.07) we will officially move 
> to 1.08 (then trunk)
> 
> windows always has the edge as Akira compiles the latest greatest too so 
> that permits experiments (he also always tests it so that helps us a lot)
> 
> don't expect support for experimental versions on this mailing list as 
> we feel free to change whatever we like
> 
> (fwiw: we don't expect huge functionality changes .. the biggest change 
> coming is lua 5.3 which can have a few consequences for those writing 
> lua as well as a 5-10 % performance boost)

Many thanks for your reply, Hans.

I understand now why Windows always has the edge versions ;-).

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[luigi scarso]

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Hans,
>>>>
>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>
>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>
> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
Hm.
Fake bold / slanted / small caps /<what ever> of a base font
are dangerous, there is an high risk to compromise the
legibility of the text (this is especially true nowadays with user
consumer tablets  10" full hd ).
A font is not only glyphs, but also kernings and  hints and all these
things must match.
As Knuth  shown , the right way is to design from the beginning how
each glyph should be transformed
instead of apply to all the glyphs  the same transformation  (which is
faster, this is sure).
This is the key concept of metafont --- in my opinion better than the
variable fonts .
I am not saying that this impossible to do in context-mkiv ( *it is*
possible: just see  5.3 Virtual fonts of the luatex reference)
but in the end the result is the same of write the correct
bold/slanted/small caps/<whatever>  version of the  base font .



-- 
luigi
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Re: (fake) bold as font feature

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/28/2018 11:32 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>>> Hans,
>>>>>
>>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>>
>>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>>
>> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
> Hm.
> Fake bold / slanted / small caps /<what ever> of a base font
> are dangerous, there is an high risk to compromise the
> legibility of the text (this is especially true nowadays with user
> consumer tablets  10" full hd ).
> A font is not only glyphs, but also kernings and  hints and all these
> things must match.
> As Knuth  shown , the right way is to design from the beginning how
> each glyph should be transformed
> instead of apply to all the glyphs  the same transformation  (which is
> faster, this is sure).
> This is the key concept of metafont --- in my opinion better than the
> variable fonts .
> I am not saying that this impossible to do in context-mkiv ( *it is*
> possible: just see  5.3 Virtual fonts of the luatex reference)
> but in the end the result is the same of write the correct
> bold/slanted/small caps/<whatever>  version of the  base font .
it's anyway not true to say that 'boldening a font' is a bold font .. 
it's more like: hey, we can do the same as all these font vendors, 
provide 25 weights of the same base regular (we can't go thinner btw)

a boldened latin modern regular for instance looks like a real 'modern' 
latin modern and looks way different from the metafontish produced bold 
latin modern (i actually like the boldened more in this case so we can 
have a "modern latin modern" typescript ... of course math is a 
different issue but even that can be made acceptable

it anway makes a nice topic / presentation for the ctx meeting

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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