From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/85253 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Keith J. Schultz" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: announcement and call Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:13 +0100 Message-ID: <247FFAEB-F286-4968-823D-34ACFE7569A1@uni-trier.de> References: <5284D95B.1070602@uni-bonn.de> <20131114204020.GA10496@phlegethon> <528538B7.8010307@uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1384511485 15875 80.91.229.3 (15 Nov 2013 10:31:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:31:25 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Nov 15 11:31:31 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VhGgU-0003dV-VK for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC9B10216; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id zzqTCwD6jqZV; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138D5101FB; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61292101FB for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:21 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id o-g6tYQf-Xcf for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter1-til.mf.surf.net (filter1-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.217]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4525B101F0 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mx2.uni-trier.de (mx2.uni-trier.de [136.199.224.18]) by filter1-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rAFAVGiw026014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:17 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,706,1378850400"; d="scan'208";a="8231028" Original-Received: from rzmail.uni-trier.de ([136.199.8.220]) by mx2i.uni-trier.de with ESMTP; 15 Nov 2013 11:31:10 +0100 Original-Received: from [10.0.62.5] (dslb-084-058-252-244.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.252.244]) by rzmail.uni-trier.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3679B40208 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:31:10 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <528538B7.8010307@uni-bonn.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=136.199.224.18; country=DE; region=08; city=Trier; latitude=49.7500; longitude=6.6333; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=49.7500,6.6333&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0RKNKvgVI - 0c09007a4288 - 20131115 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.217 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:85253 Archived-At: Hi Thomas, Am 14.11.2013 um 21:55 schrieb Thomas A. Schmitz : > On 11/14/2013 09:40 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote: >> What I=92d consider the most pressing issue, pertaining both to >> Context and to TeX as a whole, would be text streams a.k.a. >> parallel typesetting. It was discussed on the list a couple times >> already and at one point someone collected examples [1]. Also, I >> sketched the current state of parallel texts elsewhere [2]. > = > For certain values of "pressing" :-) Two pessimistic remarks about that: = (1) I experimented with a mechanism that Hans build for mkii a while ago, a= nd I found it difficult to decide how to define what was expected of parall= el typesetting. In the end, I wasn't convinced that an entirely automated v= ersion was possible at all. (2) I'm afraid that's not part of the present p= roject and is related neither to critical editions nor to bibliographies. I have to strongly disagree with you here. A critical edition is only a spe= cialized case of parallel texts! You two or more editions that are contrast= ed/compared to each other. Naturally, it must be bibliographically annotated and there are the comment= s of the author of the critical edition. The editions have to be typeset in parallel. There are many ways how an au= thor can lay this out. In the far past it was common just to stack the cont= rasted versions on top of each other! Very very ugly. Lots of examples in libraries. More recent ways= are to use column. Yet, the more editions involved the harder it is to pla= ce on one page. For such cases it would be best to spread them across two facing pages. = The problem with the two page setup is synchronizing the comments, notes, d= iscussion of the critical edition's author. For a half way pleasing layout = these should interplaced between the contrasted editions across the two pag= es. Yes, not an easy task. I agree that it is hard to automate the synchronization of text passages. T= he only viable approach would be at the paragraph level. A line level appro= ach can only be achieved by interaction of the author of the critical edition with synchronization mark= s of some sort inside the editions. Early, in my education in Computer Linguistics, decades ago, we had project= where we wrote a program for entry of critical editions. The editions/text= s and comments were entered in parallel on the tty-terminal screen and stored in a database. At= that time we where no interested in fancy output and used a simple stacked= output. As you probably know yourself, it is the entry and synchronization of the e= ditions that is the problem an not as much the layout itself, though that = is hard enough by itself. I do not see any way to do this in a normal linear single pass process. The= question is in how far ConTeXt can support this task. = 1) provide possibilities of laying out the texts synchronized in column= s, stacks and two page layouts. Footnotes, under, columns, pages or across either. Another, nice feature would be the availability of marginal= s in a synchronized way. This should be a generalized module or set of commands as it can be used = in many other fields be critical editions. In other words a parallel texts layout package: \defineparalleltextlayout[name][=85] \setupparalleltextlayout[name][=85]{=85} \defineparalleltextpart[name][..] \setupparalleltextpart[name][=85]{=85} \startparalleltext[name][=85] \stopparalleltext . . . = 2) providing commands that define which parts belong together I would suggest that this be done mostly on the Lua side as you ca= n then develop a database of sorts and worry about the layout/typesetting of the critical edition later. A package for marking up the editions directly. \defineeditionslayout[name][=85] \setupeditionslayout[name][=85]{=85} \defineedition[name][..] \setupedition[name][=85]{=85} \starteditionsl[name][=85] \stopeditions \starteditiontext{name}{text} \stopeditiontext \startauthorremarks \stopauthorsremarks . . . desired MWE: % definitions and setups \starttext % some text \starteditions[style1] \starteditiontext{edition1} % some text \stopeditiontext \starteditiontext[edition2] % some text \stopeditiontext \starteditiontext[edition3] % some text \stopeditiontext \startauthorremarks % remark \stopauthorremarks \stopeditions = % some more text \starteditions[style1] \starteditiontext{edition2} % some text \stopeditiontext \starteditiontext{edition1} % some text \stopeditiontext \startauthorremarks % remark \stopauthorremarks \starteditiontext{edition3} % some text \stopeditiontext \stopeditions % some more text \starteditions[style2] \starteditiontext{edition1} % some text \stopeditiontext \starteditiontext{edition2} % some text \stopeditiontext \starteditiontext{edition3} % some text \stopeditiontext \stopeditions \stoptext = 3) Provide Lua Tools to help automate the process of synchronization of= large texts. This would provide a database/knowledge base of the texts wh= ich can be then integrated into a critical edition typeset in ConTeXt. A package could already integrate the commands from 2 or that can = be converted into a file(s) with commands of 2 that then gets edited by the aut= hor of the critical edition. I have just a brain stormed possible starting point. It as you can see it h= as quite some felixiblity as to how the texts is entered and ConTeXt does some rearranging during typesetting. One type of critical edition we have not discussed is when the author whats= to work on a word basis. But, that is even a bigger can of worms for collating the data/texts. = Most of what I have describe it probably obvious to you, yet = Hope this helps regards Keith. = = >> Looking forward to status reports! Will the improvements be >> directly merged into Context or do you prefer releasing it as a >> self-contained module? > = > During development, we need to keep the code separate since we need to do= cument what we do for our funding agency, but it will be part of ConTeXt. > = > Thomas > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to= the Wiki! > = > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-co= ntext > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________