mac install & page layout & numbered margin notes

mac install & page layout & numbered margin notes

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

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Hello context-helpers for newbie:

in the documents planned (in and over the Westphalian language) I  
wish to use many margin notes (word translations, exlanations etc.).  
The margin notes should be numbered with reference number (or other  
indication) in the text body. And I should be able to input utf-8  
(because of umlaute and phonetical notations, IPA etc.).

Therefore I installed some week ago
=> MacTeX on my MacBook Pro with OSX 10.4 (Tiger)
and would like to use => ConTeXt,
possibly within => TexShop (or elsewise, if better).

But I need a lot of start-up help. Therefore I put the main questions  
of the moment here hoping, that some take pity with me and answer the  
one or the other of the following questions:

1. Installation of ConTeXt complete and actual?

Has MacTeX braught me with it the main components of the ConTeXt  
system or should I update/complete it and how?

texexec --version
TeXExec | version 6.2.0 - 1997-2006 - PRAGMA ADE/POD

2. How to switch to the German commands in ConTeXt?

(Perheps that might help me a little to learn and remember commands.  
Therefore I want to switch if possible now at the beginning.)

3. How to setup page/layout dimensions?

Because of the work with margin notes as a form of ever present  
accompanying, helping side text for the reader and learner, I need  
say ==> the third width of the right page for the margin notes. I  
read the applying chapters and passages in Hans Hagen's "ConTEXt
the manual" (November 12, 2001) several times, but I couldn't get it  
yet.

4. How to set up => numbered margin notes and, thereover,
=> prevent, that they are printed one over the other, when there is  
not enough space between the referenced words/phrases in the text body?

5. How to find and learn the possible options to the commands?

The few commands and options I found yet were token from the manuals,  
but this was rather trial and error.

I attach the (abbreviated) Example of my first Text with ConTeXt, so  
that you can better see, what my most needed help could be (fo to  
come to an output with bride (right) margin and automatically  
numbered margin notes).

The attached TeX file gave the pdf output, but nevertheless texexec  
(or what ever) gives me a FAILED message in the TexShop Console:

### /usr/texbin/dvips -R -Poutline  -o /tmp/altpdflatex. 
1646-1211465898/LyraV-TShop-source-u.ps LyraV-TShop-source-u.dvi
This is dvips(k) 5.96 Copyright 2005 Radical Eye Software  
(www.radicaleye.com)
/usr/texbin/dvips: ! DVI file can't be opened.
### FAILED to generate /tmp/altpdflatex.1646-1211465898/LyraV-TShop- 
source-u.ps ()

Any help suggestions also for that?

Thank you for reading my cry fore help, best wishes,
"Met echt-westfälsken Gröiten"
joachim


[-- Attachment #2: LyraV-TShop-src-abbr.tex --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1600 bytes --]

\enableregime[utf]
\setuphead[subject][style=\tfb]
\setuphead[title][style=\tfd]
\setuphead[section][style=\tfc]
\setupinmargin[style=smallslanted]
\starttext

\title{Een paar Värse van Lyra ...}

... uut dem Bouk "Plattdeutsche Briefe, Erzählungen und Gedichte" 
van F. W. Lyra, Osnabrück 1844, S. 178-187

\boldslanted{Nigge 'ruutgiewen van \bold{Joachim Kreimer-de Fries}, Berlin 2008}
\section{De Värse}

\subject{[Junfer Eegensinn]\footnote[to]{Uäwerschriften in Eckklammern van J. K.}}
\startnarrower
\startlines
Ick was de Junfer Eegensinn,
In Gooen \inright{im Guten, gutwillig} nich to tiämen \inright{zähmen},
Un stiiwd' \inright{streifte (häufig her u. hin} mi faaken hier un hen,
To gierwen un to niemen.
De Hiemel weet't, wo et kwam,
Dat ick sau nääe \inright[small]{nääe: ungern, bedenklich.} gaf un nam.

Dau kwam 'n jungen Plumenbaar ...
...

Wi seiten in 'n schmööden Kott'\inright{in 'n schmööen Kott: in einem weichen Lager.}
Un wöören nett an'n Küüren;
Ick gaf den Karr'n \inright{Kern} uut miiner Nott,
Nam de van siinem wieren.
De Hiemel weet't, wo et kwam,
Dat ick su arglauf gab un nam.
...
\stoplines
\stopnarrower

\subject{[Fruusvolk un Süüpergesinn']\note[to]}
\startnarrower
\startlines
Daar ginten, daar kiiket de Strauten henup,
Daar steht wual 'n half Stiige Fruusvolk in'n Trupp:
De Anntke, de Hildke, de Gerdrut, de Siltke,
...
Dat joolet, dat anket,
Dat schleit sick, dat klei't sick, dat bitt sick tolest,
As fiirden de Düüwels in'r Höllen 'n Fest.
\stoplines
\stopnarrower

\stoptext


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--
Kreimer-de Fries, Berlin

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: mac install & page layout & numbered margin notes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hello Joachim,

> Hello context-helpers for newbie:
> 
> in the documents planned (in and over the Westphalian language) I  
> wish to use many margin notes (word translations, exlanations etc.).  
> The margin notes should be numbered with reference number (or other  
> indication) in the text body. And I should be able to input utf-8  
> (because of umlaute and phonetical notations, IPA etc.).
> 
> Therefore I installed some week ago
> => MacTeX on my MacBook Pro with OSX 10.4 (Tiger)
> and would like to use => ConTeXt,
> possibly within => TexShop (or elsewise, if better).
> 
> But I need a lot of start-up help. Therefore I put the main questions  
> of the moment here hoping, that some take pity with me and answer the  
> one or the other of the following questions:
> 
> 1. Installation of ConTeXt complete and actual?
> 
> Has MacTeX braught me with it the main components of the ConTeXt  
> system or should I update/complete it and how?
> 
> texexec --version
> TeXExec | version 6.2.0 - 1997-2006 - PRAGMA ADE/POD

What is the result from "ctxtools --contextversion"

> 2. How to switch to the German commands in ConTeXt?
> 
> (Perheps that might help me a little to learn and remember commands.  
> Therefore I want to switch if possible now at the beginning.)

Don't do this, the german interface is not complete, new commands have
english names and a few entries need better names and it would be hard
for us to help you.

> 3. How to setup page/layout dimensions?
> 
> Because of the work with margin notes as a form of ever present  
> accompanying, helping side text for the reader and learner, I need  
> say ==> the third width of the right page for the margin notes. I  
> read the applying chapters and passages in Hans Hagen's "ConTEXt
> the manual" (November 12, 2001) several times, but I couldn't get it  
> yet.

\setuplayout
  [backspace=2cm, 
   width=10cm,
   rightmargin=8cm,
   ...]

Give us more information about your layout.

> 4. How to set up => numbered margin notes and, thereover,
> => prevent, that they are printed one over the other, when there is  
> not enough space between the referenced words/phrases in the text body?

Try the following code from Hans:

\definenote
  [glossary]
  [way=bypage,
   location={page,high},
   factor=0,
   width=\leftmarginwidth,
   scope=page,
   %conversion=ownnote,
   %numbercommand=,
   %textcommand=,
   textstyle=,
   rule=,
   before=,
   after=]

\setupnotedefinition
  [glossary]
  [location=left,
   width=fit,
   distance=.5em,
   align={right,tolerant,stretch},
   headstyle=bold,
   hang=1]

\setuplayout
  [width=middle,
   height=middle,
   backspace=5cm,
   margin=4cm,
   margindistance=.25cm,
   cutspace=2cm]

\setuptexttexts
  [margin]
  [\setups{glossary}]
  [\setups{glossary}]

\startsetups glossary
    \vbox to \textheight {\placenotes[glossary]\vfill}
\stopsetups

\starttext

dog\glossary{Hund}

\input knuth

cat\glossary{Katze}

\stoptext

> 5. How to find and learn the possible options to the commands?
> 
> The few commands and options I found yet were token from the manuals,  
> but this was rather trial and error.

- texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net/
- Quick References: http://pragma-ade.nl/show-man-10.htm
- The source files

> I attach the (abbreviated) Example of my first Text with ConTeXt, so  
> that you can better see, what my most needed help could be (fo to  
> come to an output with bride (right) margin and automatically  
> numbered margin notes).

Replace "..." with \unknown

Use \quotation{my quoted text} instead of "my quoted text"

> The attached TeX file gave the pdf output, but nevertheless texexec  
> (or what ever) gives me a FAILED message in the TexShop Console:
> 
> ### /usr/texbin/dvips -R -Poutline  -o /tmp/altpdflatex. 
> 1646-1211465898/LyraV-TShop-source-u.ps LyraV-TShop-source-u.dvi
> This is dvips(k) 5.96 Copyright 2005 Radical Eye Software  
> (www.radicaleye.com)
> /usr/texbin/dvips: ! DVI file can't be opened.
> ### FAILED to generate /tmp/altpdflatex.1646-1211465898/LyraV-TShop- 
> source-u.ps ()

Looks like a old ConTeXt version.

> Any help suggestions also for that?
> 
> Thank you for reading my cry fore help, best wishes,
> "Met echt-westfälsken Gröiten"
> joachim

Pfiat di
Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: mac install & page layout & numbered margin notes

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

22.05.2008 at 18:39 Wolfgang Schuster - thankworthily answering my  
help questions - asked :
> What is the result from "ctxtools --contextversion"

joachim$ ctxtools --contextversion
CtxTools | context version: 2007.01.12 15:56 (/usr/local/texlive/2007/ 
texmf-dist/tex/context/base/context.tex)
CtxTools | context version: 2007.01.12 15:56 (/usr/local/texlive/2007/ 
texmf-dist/tex/context/base/cont-new.tex)

Is that the actual version?

>> 2. How to switch to the German commands in ConTeXt?
> Don't do this, the german interface is not complete, new commands have
> english names and a few entries need better names and it would be hard
> for us to help you.

Does this means, that the German interface _is_ complete together  
with the new commands that have English names? Then only the last  
argument  ("it would be hard for us to help you") prevents me from  
switching to the German interface. (And ... not knowing how to do  
that...)

>> 3. How to setup page/layout dimensions?
> \setuplayout
>   [backspace=2cm,
>    width=10cm,
>    rightmargin=8cm,
>    ...]

This worked immediatly. Thank you very much, Wolfgang,  for your  
swift help!

>> 4. How to set up => numbered margin notes and, thereover,
>> => prevent, that they are printed one over the other, when there is
>> not enough space between the referenced words/phrases in the text  
>> body?
>
> Try the following code from Hans: [...]

That code sets the notes into the _left margin_, not into the right.  
I could not reverse that. Or because I didn't find out the right  
commands/option or because it is not possible.

I even tried then to set reverse the width of the margins, e. g. the  
broader one left and small one at the right, so that the notes  
produced with the code of Hans in the left margin of the text body  
should find place. Without success. But I'd like to know if this is  
possible and how.

The code of Hans is doubtlessly a very useful code for certain  
purposes but perhaps less for the purpose I asked for. It sets the  
(then indeed numbered, "glossary"-) notes pagewise from the top down  
one after another, so again (as with footnotes) far away from theyr  
reference text (word, phrase) in the body text. I wanted the effect  
that I experimented before with the package "footmisc" in LaTeX  
(footnotes as margin notes), but avoiding having printed two notes on  
the same place (one over the other, not readable) but in _those_  
cases the second note below the first.

Perhaps this is not possible in TeX and therefore in ConTeXt neither?

Best wishes,
joachim


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: mac install & page layout & numbered margin notes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Fri, 23 May 2008 01:41:47 +0200
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer@jpberlin.de> wrote:

> 
> 22.05.2008 at 18:39 Wolfgang Schuster - thankworthily answering my  
> help questions - asked :
> > What is the result from "ctxtools --contextversion"
> 
> joachim$ ctxtools --contextversion
> CtxTools | context version: 2007.01.12 15:56 (/usr/local/texlive/2007/ 
> texmf-dist/tex/context/base/context.tex)
> CtxTools | context version: 2007.01.12 15:56 (/usr/local/texlive/2007/ 
> texmf-dist/tex/context/base/cont-new.tex)
> 
> Is that the actual version?

No, the current version is from 21. May 2008 but you could update your
installation with "ctxtools --updatecontext".

> >> 2. How to switch to the German commands in ConTeXt?
> > Don't do this, the german interface is not complete, new commands have
> > english names and a few entries need better names and it would be hard
> > for us to help you.
> 
> Does this means, that the German interface _is_ complete together  
> with the new commands that have English names? Then only the last  
> argument  ("it would be hard for us to help you") prevents me from  
> switching to the German interface. (And ... not knowing how to do  
> that...)

The german interface is not complete, Tobias Burnus translated a lot of
the command names years ago but most of the new commands and keys in
the last few years got no german names.

I doubt you will be happy with the german interface because you're
forced to look the names all by yourself, the manuals use only english
commands and finding the german alternative takes time.

> >> 3. How to setup page/layout dimensions?
> > \setuplayout
> >   [backspace=2cm,
> >    width=10cm,
> >    rightmargin=8cm,
> >    ...]
> 
> This worked immediatly. Thank you very much, Wolfgang,  for your  
> swift help!

THis was only meant as a simple example who the to setu a new layout,
many more commands are avaiable and once you understood the system it
is easy to set you own ones.

> >> 4. How to set up => numbered margin notes and, thereover,
> >> => prevent, that they are printed one over the other, when there is
> >> not enough space between the referenced words/phrases in the text  
> >> body?
> >
> > Try the following code from Hans: [...]
> 
> That code sets the notes into the _left margin_, not into the right.  
> I could not reverse that. Or because I didn't find out the right  
> commands/option or because it is not possible.

It is possible to change the location for the notes.

> I even tried then to set reverse the width of the margins, e. g. the  
> broader one left and small one at the right, so that the notes  
> produced with the code of Hans in the left margin of the text body  
> should find place. Without success. But I'd like to know if this is  
> possible and how.

You should take a closer look at \setuplayout to change the layout.

> The code of Hans is doubtlessly a very useful code for certain  
> purposes but perhaps less for the purpose I asked for. It sets the  
> (then indeed numbered, "glossary"-) notes pagewise from the top down  
> one after another, so again (as with footnotes) far away from theyr  
> reference text (word, phrase) in the body text. I wanted the effect  
> that I experimented before with the package "footmisc" in LaTeX  
> (footnotes as margin notes), but avoiding having printed two notes on  
> the same place (one over the other, not readable) but in _those_  
> cases the second note below the first.
> 
> Perhaps this is not possible in TeX and therefore in ConTeXt neither?

More a questions Hans could answer.

> Best wishes,
> joachim

Greetings
Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

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Hey friendly helpers,

I see, this list is one for experts and programmers, less for simple  
users. But given that there is no list for beginners of ConTeXt, I  
make my last attempt to get help in the following problem:

How to create _numbered_ margin notes in ConTeXt?

I have already spent some week of my disposable time to that problem  
without success. I attach an example file as pdf, created in several  
attempts with OpenOffice-writer, with spare success and giving up  
after the 14th note on this half-page. But it can illustrate what I  
want and need:

- Margin(al) notes, numbered/referenced like footnotes, preferably in  
the wider right margin of the page.

- Each margin note possibly on the same line with the referenced word/ 
expression in the text body which shall be translated/explained => if  
possible, i. e. if this place is not yet occupied by a foregoing  
margin note for a word or phrase in the same or a former line.

- In the latter case, the margin note shall be typeset _below_ the  
former margin note (without printing one note on the other).

Is there a way to setup/define the inmargin in the preamble of a  
ConTeXt document but then getting this result with a normal or  
(foregoing defined) command?

Any other advice for to get this result?

Or is it - for TeXnical reasons - not possible to achieve this result  
with reasonable effort in ConTeXt neither?

I would be happy to get assistance (best the necessary commands/setup  
text) or any other advice to get the wanted result.

Hopefully,

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries

Am 23.05.2008 um 09:23 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

>>>> 3. How to setup page/layout dimensions?
>>> \setuplayout
>>>   [backspace=2cm,
>>>    width=10cm,
>>>    rightmargin=8cm,
>>>    ...]
>>
>> This worked immediatly. Thank you very much, Wolfgang,  for your
>> swift help!
--------------------------------
Text from 1844 by F. W. Lyra in the Westphalian language:


[-- Attachment #2: lyra-test.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 25532 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
> Hey friendly helpers,
> 
> I see, this list is one for experts and programmers, less for simple 
> users. But given that there is no list for beginners of ConTeXt, I make 
> my last attempt to get help in the following problem:
> 
> How to create _numbered_ margin notes in ConTeXt?

This may be possible, but if it is, I do not know how. I reply
just to let you know that I have read your message.

Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
> Hey friendly helpers,
> 
> I see, this list is one for experts and programmers, less for simple 
> users. But given that there is no list for beginners of ConTeXt, I make 
> my last attempt to get help in the following problem:
> 
> How to create _numbered_ margin notes in ConTeXt?

quick and dirty command (instead one can use enumerations and do some 
complex setup)

\def\mnote{\dosingleempty\domnote}

\def\domnote[#1]#2%
   {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote\plusone
    \inmargin
      {\MyMarginalNote:
       \doifsomething{#1}
         {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}%
       #2}}

\setupinmargin[stack=yes]

\starttext

bla bla bla \mnote{xxx} bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla 
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla \mnote[foo]{xxx} bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla 
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla \mnote{xxx} bla \mnote{xxx} bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla 
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

in \in {note} [foo]

\stoptext


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

In friendly and helpfully answering to my late night question

>> How to create _numbered_ margin notes in ConTeXt?

Hans Hagen wrote 05.06.2008 at 10:04:
> quick and dirty command (instead one can use enumerations and do some
> complex setup)

Before ending this day, I want to thank you for your endeavour (also  
for Taco's attentive regret).

Dear Hans, you know what your code produces:

- indeed, the marginal notes are numbered (I can live with the fact  
that this is not the kind numbering of notes (cf. footnotes) one -  
the reader - expects);

- indeed the notes are no longer printed one over the other.

BUT:

- the accent sign ( ´ ) placed in the text body before the next word  
following that wich is explained in the marginal note will not be  
accepted and understood by the readers. It must, of course, be a  
superscripts number (the same number as in the referencing marginal  
note).

AND:

You won't really expect that someone outside the circle of you  
programmers who have developed ConTeXt, i. e. a simple (beginning)  
user of ConTeXt - even if highly willing to learn, is able to change  
this code in a way to get the wanted results (which I had illustrated  
with the pdf-file produced under extremly frustrating formating  
effort with OpenOffice Writer).

With two exceptions (\def and \setupinmargin) I did not find any of  
the used commands documented in "ConTEXt - the manual" or the  
"commands" quick reference of 2001. I could not verify in the http:// 
texshow.contextgarden.net/
because not available - as almost everytime. But from my last  
remember, when it - for once - was available, they are not in there,  
neither.

On the one hand I have still the impression, that ConTeXt is a highly  
adaptable and flexible typesetting system within TeX (probably my  
intents with marginal notes as help for understanding texts could  
find a solution),

on the other hand I'm almost giving up with my intention, because the  
only program/system with wich I a had hope to resolve this problem is  
not configurable for me, because ... I'm not a programmer or software  
developer, because you ConTeXt-developers don't care enough about  
usable, applicable documentation, because the cultural, didactical  
value of the old (hand-)  typesetting technique of marginal notes has  
come out of fashion, what ever...

N. B. I recommend the provision in ConTeXt for marginal notes in my  
intented sense warmly to you: they are an acquirement of civilization  
with big possibilities for the future and no other - at least no word  
processing program - is able to handle them yet in a acceptable manner!

Nevertheless, be it pure curiousness or still persistant hope in  
acquiring the skills for ConTeXt, I would like to know:

1.
in your sample code, Hans:
between \starttext and \stoptext you write once (the first time of  
occurrence):
> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx} bla bla

but in the second time:
> bla bla bla \mnote[foo]{xxx} bla bla bla

and then again:

> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx}

Has the [foo] after the first \mnote any relevance and which?

2.
the last row of your "document" text is:

> in \in {note} [foo]

in my pdf-output this appears as :

"in note 2"

This is not reasonable and desired (it should not appear). Was it a  
"slip of the pen" on your side or any purpose, if yes, which one?

All the best and
Goutgaun!
joachim
--
Kreimer-de Fries



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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Tobias Burnus]

Hi Joachim,

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
>> bla bla bla \mnote[foo]{xxx} bla bla bla
>>     
> Has the [foo] after the first \mnote any relevance and which?
>   
Preremark: Usually, in ConTeXt, text in curly braces is printed and in 
brackets is not.

In this case, \mnote{xxx} and \mnote[foo]{xxx} print the same, but you 
defined a label "foo", which you can access later like in "See in my 
margin note 1 on page 22."

>> in \in {note} [foo]
>>     
> in my pdf-output this appears as :
>
> "in note 2"
Well, this is exactly the purpose, if you want to refer to a previous 
margin note, you can access it again. \in[foo] prints the margin-note 
number. And "\in{note}[foo]" prefixes it with the word "note". If you 
have an setup interactivity, you can click on "note 2" and jump to the note.

It might well be that you do not need that feature, but sometimes it 
might becomes handy.

Tobias
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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:

> - indeed, the marginal notes are numbered (I can live with the fact  
> that this is not the kind numbering of notes (cf. footnotes) one -  
> the reader - expects);

you can put anything there the way you want

> - indeed the notes are no longer printed one over the other.
> 
> BUT:
> 
> - the accent sign ( ´ ) placed in the text body before the next word  
> following that wich is explained in the marginal note will not be  
> accepted and understood by the readers. It must, of course, be a  
> superscripts number (the same number as in the referencing marginal  
> note).

i'm not sure what accent you mean, anyhow,

\def\domnote[#1]#2%
    {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote\plusone
     \inmargin
       {\MyMarginalNote:
        \doifsomething{#1}
          {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}%
        #2}%
     \high{\MyMarginalNote}}

this will put a footnote like number in the text

> AND:
> 
> You won't really expect that someone outside the circle of you  
> programmers who have developed ConTeXt, i. e. a simple (beginning)  
> user of ConTeXt - even if highly willing to learn, is able to change  
> this code in a way to get the wanted results (which I had illustrated  
> with the pdf-file produced under extremly frustrating formating  
> effort with OpenOffice Writer).

well, there are quite some users here who change code -)

it takes a while but at somepoint any user can define simple macros; 
maybe the #1 is confusing but that's just the argument

> With two exceptions (\def and \setupinmargin) I did not find any of  
> the used commands documented in "ConTEXt - the manual" or the  
> "commands" quick reference of 2001. I could not verify in the http:// 
> texshow.contextgarden.net/
> because not available - as almost everytime. But from my last  
> remember, when it - for once - was available, they are not in there,  
> neither.

i could have used \definenumber or \definelabel but the shown code was a 
quicky; the advantage of the other approach is that you can influence 
their rendering

> On the one hand I have still the impression, that ConTeXt is a highly  
> adaptable and flexible typesetting system within TeX (probably my  
> intents with marginal notes as help for understanding texts could  
> find a solution),

sure; the main probem is that everyone wants something slightly 
different and we end up with many commands that need examples and 
documentation and then get overseen ... the best resource for special 
cases is still this mailing list since others may have needed you 
rfeature before

> on the other hand I'm almost giving up with my intention, because the  
> only program/system with wich I a had hope to resolve this problem is  
> not configurable for me, because ... I'm not a programmer or software  
> developer, because you ConTeXt-developers don't care enough about  
> usable, applicable documentation, because the cultural, didactical  
> value of the old (hand-)  typesetting technique of marginal notes has  
> come out of fashion, what ever...

well, there's actually quite some marginal stuff in context (you don't 
wanna know what we need context for ourselves)

you should keep one thing in mind: tex is a 30 year old system (ok it 
gets updated now) and some things are simply non trivial and marginal 
notes are one of them (the stacking code is quite tricky)

concerning documentation ... if i had 60 hours in a day .... keeping up 
with user demands, developments, my work etc etc takes time too

> N. B. I recommend the provision in ConTeXt for marginal notes in my  
> intented sense warmly to you: they are an acquirement of civilization  
> with big possibilities for the future and no other - at least no word  
> processing program - is able to handle them yet in a acceptable manner!
> 
> Nevertheless, be it pure curiousness or still persistant hope in  
> acquiring the skills for ConTeXt, I would like to know:
> 
> 1.
> in your sample code, Hans:
> between \starttext and \stoptext you write once (the first time of  
> occurrence):
>> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx} bla bla
> 
> but in the second time:
>> bla bla bla \mnote[foo]{xxx} bla bla bla

the [foo] is the optional cross reference; i thought that you might need 
that

> and then again:
> 
>> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx}
> 
> Has the [foo] after the first \mnote any relevance and which?
> 
> 2.
> the last row of your "document" text is:
> 
>> in \in {note} [foo]
> 
> in my pdf-output this appears as :
> 
> "in note 2"
> 
> This is not reasonable and desired (it should not appear). Was it a  
> "slip of the pen" on your side or any purpose, if yes, which one?

huh? if you don't want it, just delete it; that;s the problem with 
example code ... all users have different demands -)

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:

> \def\domnote[#1]#2%
>    {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote\plusone
>     \inmargin
>       {\MyMarginalNote:
>        \doifsomething{#1}
>          {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}%
>        #2}%
>     \high{\MyMarginalNote}}
>

There should not be a \plusone in the first line. Read the documentation 
of \increment in syst-ext ;)

Aditya
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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> \def\domnote[#1]#2%
>>    {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote\plusone
>>     \inmargin
>>       {\MyMarginalNote:
>>        \doifsomething{#1}
>>          {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}%
>>        #2}%
>>     \high{\MyMarginalNote}}
>>
> 
> There should not be a \plusone in the first line. Read the documentation 
> of \increment in syst-ext ;)

yeah, stupid ... actualy, in the core i'm weeding out those increments 
because we now have many counters and \advance needs the plusone, but 
nevertheless for quick and dirty usage macro based counters are ok

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> \def\domnote[#1]#2%
>>    {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote\plusone
>>     \inmargin
>>       {\MyMarginalNote:
>>        \doifsomething{#1}
>>          {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}%
>>        #2}%
>>     \high{\MyMarginalNote}}
>>
> 
> There should not be a \plusone in the first line. Read the documentation 
> of \increment in syst-ext ;)

btw, interesting side effect ... i used luatex and char 1 there is quite 
invisible -)


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

- hartelik dankseggen! -

What a beatific surprise when I opened my Mail in the late morning  
for the first time: all my yesterdays problems with marginal notes in  
ConTeXt and Hans' Code resolved, almost all used commands and  
elements explained, so that I have won confidence that I shall make  
it to configure the marginalia in the wanted format and to learn and  
use ConTeXt.

I'm really impressed of your helpfullness!

Thank you, Hans, for the improved code and expanation, thank you,  
Tobias and Aditya for the explanations and the links, also for the  
correction of the code regarding "\plusone" (that was the reason for  
the typeset accent signs ´ instead of superscript numbers in the body  
text)!

Despite your extended help, I have still acquire a lot to build my  
first little document in ConTeXt - I postponed this learning process  
to have more certainty that the marginalia question can be resolved  
and confidence that I can make it.

Am 06.06.2008 um 00:24 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> concerning documentation ... if i had 60 hours in a day ....  
> keeping up
> with user demands, developments, my work etc etc takes time too

I understand this very well, the more I'm happy for the help.

> the best resource for special
> cases is still this mailing list since others may have needed you
> rfeature before

As was demonstrated... I'll come back to this, when certainly needed  
again.

Prachtig wiekenende!
Goutgaun!
joachim
--
Kreimer-de Fries



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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Aditya Mahajan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 6191 bytes --]

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:

>
> In friendly and helpfully answering to my late night question
>
>>> How to create _numbered_ margin notes in ConTeXt?
>
> Hans Hagen wrote 05.06.2008 at 10:04:
>> quick and dirty command (instead one can use enumerations and do some
>> complex setup)
>
> Before ending this day, I want to thank you for your endeavour (also
> for Taco's attentive regret).
>
> Dear Hans, you know what your code produces:
>
> - indeed, the marginal notes are numbered (I can live with the fact
> that this is not the kind numbering of notes (cf. footnotes) one -
> the reader - expects);
>
> - indeed the notes are no longer printed one over the other.
>
> BUT:
>
> - the accent sign ( ´ ) placed in the text body before the next word
> following that wich is explained in the marginal note will not be
> accepted and understood by the readers. It must, of course, be a
> superscripts number (the same number as in the referencing marginal
> note).

A slight bug in Hans's code. See below.

> AND:
>
> You won't really expect that someone outside the circle of you
> programmers who have developed ConTeXt, i. e. a simple (beginning)
> user of ConTeXt - even if highly willing to learn, is able to change
> this code in a way to get the wanted results (which I had illustrated
> with the pdf-file produced under extremly frustrating formating
> effort with OpenOffice Writer).
>
>
> With two exceptions (\def and \setupinmargin) I did not find any of
> the used commands documented in "ConTEXt - the manual" or the
> "commands" quick reference of 2001. I could not verify in the http://
> texshow.contextgarden.net/
> because not available - as almost everytime. But from my last
> remember, when it - for once - was available, they are not in there,
> neither.

The user manual is for already existing features. In order to understand 
how to *extend* context, you need to know how the internals work. See
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Inside_ConTeXt


Let me try to explain the code (slightly adapted). First the adapted code:

\newcounter\MyMarginalNote

\def\mnote{\dosingleempty\domnote}

\def\domnote[#1]#2%
   {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote
    \high{\MyMarginalNote}%
    \inmargin
       {\MyMarginalNote:
        \doifsomething{#1}
         {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}#2}}



Now the explaination:

\newcounter\MyMarginalNote

Defines a new counter called MyMarginalNode. Hans did not use this because 
he knows how \increment works internally, but explicitly stating this 
helps in understanding.

\def\mnote{\dosingleempty\domnote}

This is the standard method in context of dealing with optimal arguments. 
See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Commands_with_optional_arguments

\def\domnote[#1]#2%

#1 is the optional argument (in square brackets), and #2 is the required 
arugment (in curly brackets)

   {\doglobal\increment\MyMarginalNote

Increment the counter MyMaginalNote. The \doglobal is there so that the 
counter is incremented even when the mnote occurs inside a group, for 
example, something like

\startframedtext
   blah blah\mnote{abc}
\stopfamedtext

    \high{\MyMarginalNote}%

Place the number as a superscript.

    \inmargin

Place the contents in the margin

       {\MyMarginalNote:

Place margin note number followed by colon

        \doifsomething{#1}
         {\expanded{\textreference[#1]{\MyMarginalNote}}}

if #1 is something (that is, #1 is not empty) create a textreference #1 
with the text \MyMarginNote. The expanded is there so that the reference 
is to the value of MyMarginNote when the margin note was created and not 
want the value of text reference was asked.

        #2}}

Place #2, that is the contents of the note.


> On the one hand I have still the impression, that ConTeXt is a highly
> adaptable and flexible typesetting system within TeX (probably my
> intents with marginal notes as help for understanding texts could
> find a solution),
>
> on the other hand I'm almost giving up with my intention, because the
> only program/system with wich I a had hope to resolve this problem is
> not configurable for me, because ... I'm not a programmer or software
> developer, because you ConTeXt-developers don't care enough about
> usable, applicable documentation, because the cultural, didactical
> value of the old (hand-)  typesetting technique of marginal notes has
> come out of fashion, what ever...

This is not configurable because it was more like a proof of concept 
solution. There is no documentation because of the same reason.

> N. B. I recommend the provision in ConTeXt for marginal notes in my
> intented sense warmly to you: they are an acquirement of civilization
> with big possibilities for the future and no other - at least no word
> processing program - is able to handle them yet in a acceptable manner!

Hans, would it be too difficult to incorporate marginal notes in the core, 
so that one could define \definenote[mnote][location=margin]. Most of the 
pieces are already there.

> Nevertheless, be it pure curiousness or still persistant hope in
> acquiring the skills for ConTeXt, I would like to know:
>
> 1.
> in your sample code, Hans:
> between \starttext and \stoptext you write once (the first time of
> occurrence):
>> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx} bla bla
>
> but in the second time:
>> bla bla bla \mnote[foo]{xxx} bla bla bla
>
> and then again:
>
>> bla bla bla \mnote{xxx}
>
> Has the [foo] after the first \mnote any relevance and which?

This is the standard approach in ConTeXt of providing a means to reference 
the notes later if you want. As you observed

> 2.
> the last row of your "document" text is:
>
>> in \in {note} [foo]
>
> in my pdf-output this appears as :
>
> "in note 2"
>
> This is not reasonable and desired (it should not appear). Was it a
> "slip of the pen" on your side or any purpose, if yes, which one?

one can use \in {note} [foo] to recall the number of the note. In case you 
do not need it, simply do not type it.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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Re: Last attempt: numbered margin notes in ConTeXt?

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> Hans, would it be too difficult to incorporate marginal notes in the 
> core, so that one could define \definenote[mnote][location=margin]. Most 
> of the pieces are already there.

sure, but it would take a bit more code then, for instance we should use 
proper counters (definnumber) so that we get the goodies of numbering 
per chapter etc etc

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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