From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/113422
Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Wolfgang Schuster via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context
Subject: Re: directsetup vs setups
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:54:59 +0100
Message-ID: <2bcacade-324c-26c1-16cf-293168c8ca3f@gmail.com>
References: <9314580b-537f-a406-0bab-4db53c71d8bf@rik.users.panix.com>
 <c3886125-3ca7-009e-d380-545c729c3dff@xs4all.nl>
 <9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com>
Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8593986564896184277=="
Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214";
	logging-data="7548"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
 PostboxApp/7.0.51
Cc: Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com>,
 Rik Kabel <rik@panix.com>
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>,
 Rik Kabel via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Nov 15 19:55:35 2021
Return-path: <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl>
Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org
Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl)
	by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl>)
	id 1mmh8h-0001h1-8l
	for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:35 +0100
Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623B8289124;
	Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:06 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl
Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1])
	by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id MV_rXH3QdjPW; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:04 +0100 (CET)
Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3DC28930F;
	Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:04 +0100 (CET)
Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E24D289262
 for <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:02 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl
Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id oPgZbneR3qLD for <ntg-context@ntg.nl>;
 Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:01 +0100 (CET)
Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.221.52;
 helo=mail-wr1-f52.google.com; envelope-from=wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com;
 receiver=<UNKNOWN> 
Original-Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com (mail-wr1-f52.google.com
 [209.85.221.52])
 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC4B289124
 for <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:55:01 +0100 (CET)
Original-Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id t30so32595871wra.10
 for <ntg-context@ntg.nl>; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:55:01 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112;
 h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent
 :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language;
 bh=vT9rCLtW4wHpiFUOtUNqPqtx1QY2I92E1V48oI7/2k4=;
 b=MU3EwtdtCSLzV+Epo0rdci2b3x48UldXdVaj83Br6ct3kgznuHZ1pvoIj+O5o7Phjc
 ws0g4WHtpsJw2L30CZDwq/iKDd6PJd0+Tp88HzguZbj35RwnlXNeeSbiDwtYj8PxLltY
 JCFRonQUi2o46jz2iAbdwn9KicwSrTeOlsBH3er2lK/ke9I3BS1bSTfy4cYUwmAMmJ6t
 YIu3CLHH4M1iRHJsfTogpMz2xSSg47hnQF0POzFGQHV+cGnQv+CkfwH1hftSFxGxw61A
 zl7iQXK9V1JkQT/vk93MVNc1BBv3BENfsGmbM/IJCz7I9vyIRXG/f/UicMxRWHSxooJr
 PioQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
 h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date
 :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language;
 bh=vT9rCLtW4wHpiFUOtUNqPqtx1QY2I92E1V48oI7/2k4=;
 b=6Tp062Kxzge8Y2I6UrHz8Vi8EByIJdXQuZ73C/fPyRqn39sfokzR3CJ4sx8s1ZFADi
 R6zHp3vh5BJEMXngE9c2i+rZzQKPKsZBXtkmfMGn0JnUgdd/B9NmUeNVIagO4CO5H5KY
 ACNojdUWuOvAR3PmUKRbObu6SyDtFw9xVg4ISI2R0WuX6IYAZswCX7A8h42QLmFnIar4
 KYWW6nws6rXUrQI6YimSP9txwJ0Wc5Uq/9TjsjKhuXgDYZyxsOg3PgtsuaG6woMhRtUE
 EACaQ6q8iVy/GIvPqD6aly+NcsjYLcVsosan+V1smUln5OfBiSzDwD/b6qUflzdWhJ57
 OtvA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533NBsfdHDW63LdWnkij3f/RxDAhF8PRhy4Cqn6lfzz9Dl4chzPC
 QavSgm219qyJhFOLj1mMDTDvgnOjAgQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwLZD4o5jGX+eMD2WVrJxigkfwsI0uU/HzMxLXrT4EIGLjIBClEQKw4rEkTPDnRmG8EHh7Brw==
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6347:: with SMTP id b7mr1567054wrw.36.1637002500977;
 Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Original-Received: from ?IPv6:2a02:810d:a8bf:f874:4581:4215:f65a:89e2?
 ([2a02:810d:a8bf:f874:4581:4215:f65a:89e2])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm17179977wre.32.2021.11.15.10.55.00
 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com>
Content-Language: en-US
X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context.ntg.nl>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman/options/ntg-context>,
 <mailto:ntg-context-request@ntg.nl?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>
List-Help: <mailto:ntg-context-request@ntg.nl?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context>,
 <mailto:ntg-context-request@ntg.nl?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl
Original-Sender: "ntg-context" <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl>
Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.context:113422
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context/113422>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============8593986564896184277==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------628846CB4FD6FF10BCFCC893"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------628846CB4FD6FF10BCFCC893
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Rik Kabel via ntg-context schrieb am 15.11.2021 um 19:06:
> So, some follow-up questions:
>
> 1. What do you mean by "only one setup" in the description of 
> directsetup and fastsetup? I have examples of using two different 
> directsetup in one after key, so it does not seem to mean that.

With \directsetup, \fastsetup and \setup (I'm correcting Hans here) you 
can pass only the name of a single setups-environment as argument, e.g.

     \directsetup{my_fancy_setup}

while \setups allows you to pass a list of names, e.g.

     \setups[custom_setup_a,custom_setup_b,...]

> 2. What is meant by saying that directsetup supports gridsnapping? Do 
> you mean that fastsetup does not? (If that is the case, should a 
> module writer not use fastsetup because it might be used in a document 
> that requires a grid?)

The \startsetups environment has a optional argument which accepts (at 
the moment) the "grid" keyword to set values which are only used when 
grid snapping (\setuplayout[grid=yes]) is enabled, e.g.

\startsetups [grid] [my_fancy_setup]
     % settings which are used when grid mode is enabled
\stopsetups

\startsetups [my_fancy_setup]
     % settings which are used when grid mode is disabled
     % or when no grid related setups with the same name exist
\stopsetups

When you now use \directsetup{my_fancy_setup} (or \setup[...]) ConTeXt 
checks if grid mode is enabled and selects the right settings but 
\fastsetup never performs this check and always uses the non grid 
settings. The \fastsetup command is even more basic because it doesn't 
even check if there is a setups environment with the given name which is 
done by the other commands.

> 3. Is the support for {} and [] in setup simply to maintain legacy 
> support for {}, or are there reasons to choose one over the other? I 
> do see consistently faster times with the curlies.

You can run Hans example with MkIV and the differences should be even 
bigger because the check for [] is slower here while in LMTX it's a 
engine feature. The main difference in LMTX is a extra expansion for 
\setup compared to \directsetup.

> 4. Are there operations that are supported in directsetup that are not 
> supported in setup or fastsetup? Are there operations supported in 
> fastsetup that are not supported in setup or directsetup?

There is no difference between \setup and \directsetup but \fastsetup 
should only be used when you can ensure the requested environment exists.

> 5. Is it fair to say that setup can do the most, directsetup a bit 
> less, and fastsetup is the most restrictive? Except for the most 
> performance-constrained documents, setup is a safe choice, but when 
> constructing modules or performance tuning, the others might be tested?
>

As I already wrote before there is no difference between \setup and 
\directsetup. When you care about performance \directsetup is the wrong 
start because you won't notice a difference.

Wolfgang


--------------628846CB4FD6FF10BCFCC893
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html theme="default-light" iconset="color"><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head><body text="#000000"><span>Rik Kabel via ntg-context schrieb am 
15.11.2021 um 19:06:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com">
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
So, some follow-up questions:
    
  <ol>

      
  </ol>
1. What do you mean by "only one setup" in the description of
        directsetup and fastsetup? I have examples of using two
        different directsetup in one after key, so it does not seem to
        mean that.</blockquote>
<br>
With \directsetup, \fastsetup and \setup (I'm correcting Hans here) you 
can pass only the name of a single setups-environment as argument, e.g.<br>
<br>
    \directsetup{my_fancy_setup}<br>
<br>
while \setups allows you to pass a list of names, e.g.<br>
<br>
    \setups[custom_setup_a,custom_setup_b,...]<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com">
  <ol>

      
  </ol>
2. What is meant by saying that directsetup supports
        gridsnapping? Do you mean that fastsetup does not? (If that is
        the case, should a module writer not use fastsetup because it
        might be used in a document that requires a grid?)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The \startsetups environment has a optional argument which accepts (at 
the moment) the "grid" keyword to set values which are only used when 
grid snapping (\setuplayout[grid=yes]) is enabled, e.g.<br>
<br>
\startsetups [grid] [my_fancy_setup]<br>
    % settings which are used when grid mode is enabled<br>
\stopsetups<br>
<br>
\startsetups [my_fancy_setup]<br>
    % settings which are used when grid mode is disabled<br>
    % or when no grid related setups with the same name exist<br>
\stopsetups<br>
<br>
When you now use \directsetup{my_fancy_setup} (or \setup[...]) ConTeXt 
checks if grid mode is enabled and selects the right settings but 
\fastsetup never performs this check and always uses the non grid 
settings. The \fastsetup command is even more basic because it doesn't 
even check if there is a setups environment with the given name which is
 done by the other commands.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com">3. Is the 
support for {} and [] in setup simply to maintain
        legacy support for {}, or are there reasons to choose one over
        the other? I do see consistently faster times with the curlies.</blockquote>
<br>
You can run Hans example with MkIV and the differences should be even 
bigger because the check for [] is slower here while in LMTX it's a 
engine feature. The main difference in LMTX is a extra expansion for 
\setup compared to \directsetup.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com">
  <ol>

      
  </ol>
4. Are there operations that are supported in directsetup that
        are not supported in setup or fastsetup? Are there operations
        supported in fastsetup that are not supported in setup or
        directsetup?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
There is no difference between \setup and \directsetup but \fastsetup 
should only be used when you can ensure the requested environment 
exists.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:9ca345bf-bcb7-0e13-262e-830563326384@panix.com">
      
  <ol>

      
  </ol>
5. Is it fair to say that setup can do the most, directsetup a
        bit less, and fastsetup is the most restrictive? Except for the
        most performance-constrained documents, setup is a safe choice,
        but when constructing modules or performance tuning, the others
        might be tested?
  <ol>

    
  </ol>
</blockquote>
<br>
As I already wrote before there is no difference between \setup and 
\directsetup. When you care about performance \directsetup is the wrong 
start because you won't notice a difference.<br>
<br>
Wolfgang<br>
<br>
</body></html>

--------------628846CB4FD6FF10BCFCC893--

--===============8593986564896184277==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline
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--===============8593986564896184277==--