* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
@ 2005-06-17 10:57 ` Christopher Creutzig
2005-06-17 11:22 ` Jörg Hagmann
` (4 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Creutzig @ 2005-06-17 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
> At this moment I’ve to make a choice: continue using Word or start
> learning a new tool, which will probably consume much of my time. So,
> I’m in a dilemma. That’s why I’m asking for help.
Off the top of my head, I'd say you have to ask yourself at least the
following questions:
- How much time are you willing to spend on a tool?
- How much do you *really* bother about the final appearance?
- What formats is your PhD advisor happy with?
- Assuming you would like to reuse some parts of your thesis for
independent publications, what formats do the journals in your
field accept?
- How much help do you need when learning? How much of this
can come from a mailing list (and its archives), how much
must be presented in book format and how much face-to-face
introduction do you need? What do people around you know
and use?
> Is it really worth learning Context? I mean, does this package deal
It depends. For me, definitely, but I've long reached the area in
LaTeX where doing what I want to do means hacking around the design
limitations of that system – and that probably implies that I'll have a
hard time being satisfied by InDesign, OOo or whatever program limited
by the WYSIWYG approach.
> efficiently with some important things like TOC, cross-references,
> bibliography, figures, math, …?
Certainly. (You did not mention footnotes and multiple indices, but I
regard those as crucial in any typesetting tool, too.)
> Is it too hard to learn (for a mere
> mortal, of course)?
It depends. The worst thing about ConTeXt is its almost complete lack
of error diagnostics. Forget a curly brace somewhere or mistype the
name of an option and you'll probably spend hours looking for it, the
first couple of times. It certainly helps to have some programming
experience.
> What about support for different languages, in
> particular for Portuguese?
I don't know any Portuguese, but multiple languages are supported.
> If I choose Context, can some somebody give me some guidelines/advices?
Do read the manual. Print it and have it next to your computer. Make
notes in there.
After reading the manual, go to contextgarden.net and click on “Random
Page” a couple of times. Do this every morning – you will find a lot of
things which are completely irrelevant to you (and solve problems of
others, which is why they are there), but the occasional gem is worth
the time.
Christopher
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
2005-06-17 10:57 ` Christopher Creutzig
@ 2005-06-17 11:22 ` Jörg Hagmann
2005-06-17 12:02 ` luigi.scarso
` (3 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Jörg Hagmann @ 2005-06-17 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2426 bytes --]
Hi Alex,
I am in a similar situation, just a few months ahead of you. I am
writing a textbook and decided to do that in Context, without having
had any experience with TeX or LaTeX.
So far, I am pleased with my decision (my experience covers figures,
math, tables, footnotes, text and figures in margin - a lot of it
default stuff - but not yet bibliography, index, fonts (except greek)
and table of contents).
The discussion group helped me when necessary and politely ignored some
premature idiotic questions. However, the level of the discussions is
way above my head, and I at times get the feeling of being an obnoxious
intruder.
The most important thing: it is fun and often a welcome change from
writing. It reminds me of old-style photography, where you exposed the
film and then had to wait, wondering whether the picture would come out
as hoped or not. But if one doesn't like that, the effort is probably
too much for a PhD thesis.
Cheers, Jörg.
Prof. Dr.med. Jörg Hagmann-Zanolari
Institute of Biochemistry and Genetics
DKBW, University of Basel
Mattenstrasse 28
CH-4058 Basel
Switzerland
Phone +41 (0)61 6953049
On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:49 AM, Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis.
>
> I’m completely new to TeX and of course to Context but I’m convinced
> that Microsoft Word is far away from being the right tool for writing
> a long document. Well, in the past I had some big big headaches…
>
> At this moment I’ve to make a choice: continue using Word or start
> learning a new tool, which will probably consume much of my time. So,
> I’m in a dilemma. That’s why I’m asking for help.
>
> Is it really worth learning Context? I mean, does this package deal
> efficiently with some important things like TOC, cross-references,
> bibliography, figures, math, …? Is it too hard to learn (for a mere
> mortal, of course)? What about support for different languages, in
> particular for Portuguese?
>
> If I choose Context, can some somebody give me some guidelines/advices?
>
> I’ve already downloaded mswincontext.zip and I’ll start
> studying/testing Context.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Alex
> alex.r@netcabo.pt_______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/enriched, Size: 3526 bytes --]
Hi Alex,
I am in a similar situation, just a few months ahead of you. I am
writing a textbook and decided to do that in Context, without having
had any experience with TeX or LaTeX.
So far, I am pleased with my decision (my experience covers figures,
math, tables, footnotes, text and figures in margin - a lot of it
default stuff - but not yet bibliography, index, fonts (except greek)
and table of contents).
The discussion group helped me when necessary and politely ignored
some premature idiotic questions. However, the level of the
discussions is way above my head, and I at times get the feeling of
being an obnoxious intruder.
The most important thing: it is fun and often a welcome change from
writing. It reminds me of old-style photography, where you exposed the
film and then had to wait, wondering whether the picture would come
out as hoped or not. But if one doesn't like that, the effort is
probably too much for a PhD thesis.
Cheers, Jörg.
Prof. Dr.med. Jörg Hagmann-Zanolari
Institute of Biochemistry and Genetics
DKBW, University of Basel
Mattenstrasse 28
CH-4058 Basel
Switzerland
Phone +41 (0)61 6953049
On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:49 AM, Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Hi,</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I need some
advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis.</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I’m completely new to TeX and
of course to Context but I’m convinced that Microsoft Word is far away
from being the right tool for writing a long document. Well, in the
past I had some big big headaches…</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>At this moment I’ve to make a
choice: continue using Word or start learning a new tool, which will
probably consume much of my time. So, I’m in a dilemma. That’s why I’m
asking for help.</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Is it really worth learning
Context? I mean, does this package deal efficiently with some
important things like TOC, cross-references, bibliography, figures,
math, …? Is it too hard to learn (for a mere mortal, of course)? What
about support for different languages, in particular for Portuguese?</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>If I choose Context, can some
somebody give me some guidelines/advices?</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I’ve already downloaded
mswincontext.zip and I’ll start studying/testing Context.</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thank you.</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> </smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Alex</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>alex.r@netcabo.pt</smaller></fontfamily>_______________________________________________
ntg-context mailing list
ntg-context@ntg.nl
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
</excerpt>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]
_______________________________________________
ntg-context mailing list
ntg-context@ntg.nl
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
2005-06-17 10:57 ` Christopher Creutzig
2005-06-17 11:22 ` Jörg Hagmann
@ 2005-06-17 12:02 ` luigi.scarso
2005-06-18 14:18 ` Willi Egger
` (2 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: luigi.scarso @ 2005-06-17 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis.
>
>
>
>I'm completely new to TeX and of course to Context but I'm convinced that Microsoft Word is far away from being the right tool for writing a long document. Well, in the past I had some big big headaches.
>
>
Here some useful pdfs :
1. mp-cb-en.pdf: a first guide to commands;
2. cont-enp.pdf: The manual;
3. metafun-p.pdf: a beautiful book on graphics.
* mtexexec.pdf: explain at least how to make pdf from your tex
document;
* mtexfont.pdf: how to install new fonts;
* mtexutil.pdf: sometimes I need it to make some works.
You can find them starting from
http://mirror.contextgarden.net/document-1.htm
luigi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-06-17 12:02 ` luigi.scarso
@ 2005-06-18 14:18 ` Willi Egger
2005-06-18 16:06 ` Peter Münster
2005-06-20 17:52 ` Peter Münster
5 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Willi Egger @ 2005-06-18 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi Alexandra,
I would say that Christopher and Jörg showed a good deal of the
implications you will encounter when you start using Context. Still I
believe, that it is really worthwhile to give it a try. - I do not know
which OS you are using. Whatever, I strongly recommend you to install a
minimal distribution from the Pragma site. Those distributions are
working out of the box and this prevents you from dealing with a lot of
hassels other distributions might cause. As a next step print the
beginners manual (mp-cb-en.pdf). Try to setup some simple texts while
working through these pages. Hereafter if your appetite grows you will
find more and detailed info in the main manual (cont-enp.pdf).
The mailinglist is always willing to help you getting started.
The Wiki on Context (http://contextgarden.net/Main_Page) contains a lot
of helpful information.
Personally I started to use Context a couple of years ago when I had to
get a large number of figures typeset in a long text. Yes, it took me
some time to get it all setup. In the meantime I hardly use any other
typsetting software. I prepare letters, labels, invoices, articles,
presentations, books, greeting-cards etc. all with this great tool.
Kind regards
Willi
Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis.
>
>
>
> I'm completely new to TeX and of course to Context but I'm convinced that Microsoft Word is far away from being the right tool for writing a long document. Well, in the past I had some big big headaches.
>
>
>
> At this moment I've to make a choice: continue using Word or start learning a new tool, which will probably consume much of my time. So, I'm in a dilemma. That's why I'm asking for help.
>
>
>
> Is it really worth learning Context? I mean, does this package deal efficiently with some important things like TOC, cross-references, bibliography, figures, math, .? Is it too hard to learn (for a mere mortal, of course)? What about support for different languages, in particular for Portuguese?
>
>
>
> If I choose Context, can some somebody give me some guidelines/advices?
>
>
>
> I've already downloaded mswincontext.zip and I'll start studying/testing Context.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
> alex.r@netcabo.pt
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2005-06-18 14:18 ` Willi Egger
@ 2005-06-18 16:06 ` Peter Münster
2005-06-19 16:27 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2005-06-20 17:52 ` Peter Münster
5 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2005-06-18 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
> At this moment I've to make a choice: continue using Word or start
> learning a new tool, which will probably consume much of my time. So, I'm
> in a dilemma. That's why I'm asking for help.
Hi Alex,
I don't know MS-Word very well, but *all* of my colleagues use it. I can
see how they use it, the resulting documents and how much time they spend.
With this experience I'm quite sure, that ConTeXt is much easier to use
for a thesis, than MS-Word. After about 4 or 5 days reading the
documentation, you should be able to write a thesis with a standard layout
and all the automatically generated lists (table of contents, of figures,
of tables, of bibliography and so on), automatic references, automatic
placement of figures and much more.
None of my colleagues, even those with several years of experience with
MS-Word, is able to do that.
Another important thing: *only* MS-Word can read your Word-document, and of
course only the right version (M$ won't guarantee, that Word-2005 prints
out your document the same way as Word-2000).
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-18 16:06 ` Peter Münster
@ 2005-06-19 16:27 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2005-06-19 22:33 ` Peter Münster
2005-06-20 7:11 ` andrea valle
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2005-06-19 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
Am 18.06.2005 um 18:06 schrieb Peter Münster:
> With this experience I'm quite sure, that ConTeXt is much easier to
> use
> for a thesis, than MS-Word. After about 4 or 5 days reading the
Don't know if it's easier (for a programmer, sure), but much more
reliable -
MSW is famous for destroying huge works like books or theses.
A German computer magazine (I think it was c't) recently tested the
ability of
different word processors to process big documents with footnotes,
registers,
lists etc, and MSW became bad grades - if you choose to use a word
processor,
use OpenOffice.org!
> None of my colleagues, even those with several years of experience
> with
> MS-Word, is able to do that.
It *is* possible if you know how and are very careful (split the text in
chapters, safe and backup often etc.), but OpenOffice.org is better
for that -
besides any TeX, of course. ;-)
> Another important thing: *only* MS-Word can read your Word-
> document, and of
> course only the right version (M$ won't guarantee, that Word-2005
> prints
> out your document the same way as Word-2000).
That's not true since about Word 98; and there are a lot of other word
processors that can import MSW-Docs (e.g. OOo again).
Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-19 16:27 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2005-06-19 22:33 ` Peter Münster
2005-06-20 7:11 ` andrea valle
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2005-06-19 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 18.06.2005 um 18:06 schrieb Peter Münster:
>
> > With this experience I'm quite sure, that ConTeXt is much easier to
> > use
> > for a thesis, than MS-Word. After about 4 or 5 days reading the
>
> Don't know if it's easier (for a programmer, sure), but much more
> reliable -
Hello Hraban,
imagine someone with a one week Word-experience producing a document with
200 pages, dozens of citations, figures and so on. I can hardly believe,
that the result would be similar to a ConTeXt-document.
About 3 years ago, my fellow students wrote their thesis with Word, each
chapter in one file. At the end they lived about 10 days of night-mares
because of wrong figure placements, problems with the bibliography and so
on. I didn't try it myself, but it seemed to me very very difficult, and
they spent a lot of time with these problems.
> MSW is famous for destroying huge works like books or theses.
I can confirm. My fellow students had also such problems.
> > None of my colleagues, even those with several years of experience
> > with
> > MS-Word, is able to do that.
>
> It *is* possible if you know how and are very careful (split the text in
> chapters, safe and backup often etc.),
Of course it's possible, but the question is, with how much effort?
> > Another important thing: *only* MS-Word can read your Word-
> > document, and of
> > course only the right version (M$ won't guarantee, that Word-2005
> > prints
> > out your document the same way as Word-2000).
>
> That's not true since about Word 98; and there are a lot of other word
> processors that can import MSW-Docs (e.g. OOo again).
It's in the details. At my job I have to read each day some Word-documents,
and I open them always at first with OOo. But often, I have to start a
M$-system, because of wrong fonts, wrong figures and other problems with
OOo. And unfortunately, it's still true, that different Word-versions print
out the pages differently: sometimes I find a section title on another
page, than the guy, who wrote the document and other things.
It's quite possible, that working with OOo is more pleasant, than working
with M$-Word. But when speaking only about M$-Word: the only guys I know,
who are happy with Word, have never known anything else.
So, for the original poster, Alex: if you want to compare Word with
ConTeXt, then count the people who have switched from Word to ConTeXt
without regrets, and those who have switched from ConTeXt to Word (if you
find them...).
This is one reason, why I've switched from LaTeX to ConTeXt: I found a lot
of people, who have switched the same direction, but nobody the opposite
way.
Of course, Hraban is right: OOo could be an alternative for you.
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-19 16:27 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2005-06-19 22:33 ` Peter Münster
@ 2005-06-20 7:11 ` andrea valle
2005-06-20 7:24 ` andrea valle
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: andrea valle @ 2005-06-20 7:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
>
> It *is* possible if you know how and are very careful (split the text
> in
> chapters, safe and backup often etc.), but OpenOffice.org is better
> for that -
> besides any TeX, of course. ;-)
>
I like the idea of OO, but I have to say I have always found strange
behaviour in OO. I switched to latex (and then very probably to
context) because on Macosx in the version I tried of OO I wrote
italics, I printed italics, but I didn't see on the screen italics. So,
if I have to use a non-wysysyg, oh well, I use TeX. As a word processor
AbiWord is interesting.
>> Another important thing: *only* MS-Word can read your Word-document,
>> and of
>> course only the right version (M$ won't guarantee, that Word-2005
>> prints
>> out your document the same way as Word-2000).
>
> That's not true since about Word 98; and there are a lot of other word
> processors that can import MSW-Docs (e.g. OOo again).
>
>
I do not agree. Microsoft always changes in some unpredictable and
bad-documented way their file format. I've *always* found enormous
difficulties in opening with other word processors M$ files, even when
they should be rtf. It is simply not possible, if you want to retain
the exact document information.
So, I switched to latex...
Question:
One of the main feature I appreciated in latex was a very simple but
effective latex2rtf converter. It is very useful if you have simple
document to be shared with other non-tex people, especially during
preliminary work on a project. You write the context (with structure:
section, subsection, etc,), share it, modify it, and finally control
the typographic stuff in details. Is anything similar for context?
Best
-a-
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facoltà di Scienze della Formazione
Università degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle@unito.it
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis
2005-06-17 9:49 I need some advices/guidelines before start writing my PhD thesis Alexandra Ribeiro
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2005-06-18 16:06 ` Peter Münster
@ 2005-06-20 17:52 ` Peter Münster
5 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2005-06-20 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Alexandra Ribeiro wrote:
> At this moment I've to make a choice: continue using Word or start
> learning a new tool, which will probably consume much of my time. So, I'm
> in a dilemma. That's why I'm asking for help.
Another point, that you should perhaps consider when choosing between
something like Word/OOo and LaTeX/ConTeXt:
It's often a great advantage to have plain text files instead of binary
format! With versioning systems such as SVN you can merge changes, you can
process your files with simple scripts, you can use database-backends, you
can make a lot of automatisations and a lot more, that's impossible or
difficult with binary files.
Or just: you would have more control with plain text files!
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread