\blank[force] and pos-fonts

\blank[force] and pos-fonts

[Uwe Koloska]

Hello,

I have found a very annoying problem:

\setupbodyfont[ber,pos,sans]

\starttext
Hallo?
\page
\blank[force,4*big]
Hallo, erstmal!
\stoptext

There is no topspace at the second page.  After removing "pos" from 
\setupbodyfont[ber,sans] there is.

What's going on there?  It has nothing to do with "pos" itself since if I 
include my own postscript font there is the same behaviour.

pdfeTeX, Version 3.14159-14e-released-20000217-2.1 (Web2C 7.3.1)
ConTeXt  ver: 2001.1.19  fmt: 2001.1.23  int: english  mes: english

nothing unusal (AFAIK) in .log.

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Is \em font-dependent?

[Michal Kvasnicka]

Good morning.

Is \em font-dependent? I'm using \em command with Computer Modern

a Concrete and it works O.K. I also can switch it to italic. Everything

is O.K.

When I use Riccione + Frank Heavy, the \em does nothing. I can't

even switch to italic -- \tf is used all the way. (\it command

works well in the same time.)

Any hint?

Many thanks

Michal Kvasnicka

--
Economics is the only field in which two people can get a Nobel Prize
for saying exactly the opposite things.

Re: Is \em font-dependent?

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:55 AM 1/30/01 +0100, Michal Kvasnicka wrote:
>Good morning.
>
>Is \em font-dependent? I'm using \em command with Computer Modern
>
>a Concrete and it works O.K. I also can switch it to italic. Everything
>
>is O.K.
>
>When I use Riccione + Frank Heavy, the \em does nothing. I can't
>
>even switch to italic -- \tf is used all the way. (\it command
>
>works well in the same time.)

It depends on your font def's. Are you sure that you defined "sl"? Or say: 

\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=\it]

etc. 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 07:46 PM 1/29/01 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have found a very annoying problem:
>
>\setupbodyfont[ber,pos,sans]
>
>\starttext
>Hallo?
>\page
>\blank[force,4*big]
>Hallo, erstmal!
>\stoptext
>
>There is no topspace at the second page.  After removing "pos" from 
>\setupbodyfont[ber,sans] there is.
>
>What's going on there?  It has nothing to do with "pos" itself since if I 
>include my own postscript font there is the same behaviour.
>
>pdfeTeX, Version 3.14159-14e-released-20000217-2.1 (Web2C 7.3.1)
>ConTeXt  ver: 2001.1.19  fmt: 2001.1.23  int: english  mes: english
>
>nothing unusal (AFAIK) in .log.

Interesting. At the top of the page prevdepth = .12pt in pos fonts
[probably delta topskip/strutheight or so]. 

In main-001.tex you may change (search for \ifblankforceer): 

       \ifblankoforceer
         % -1000pt signals top of page or column (\ejectcolumn)
         \vbox{\strut}\kern-\lineheight
       \fi

Since [given its usage] no additional testing is needed. 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[S2P development]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting. At the top of the page prevdepth = .12pt in pos fonts
> [probably delta topskip/strutheight or so].

This is the origin of this dimension:

0.13791pt = 0.11493pt (the depth of overshoots in phv8t.tfm) 
            * 1.2     (from 12pt instead of 10pt) 

To put it another way: TeX never leaves the current vertical
list, so \prevdepth is always the depth of the previous
paragraph! 

The fact that cmss12 has overshoots of 0.0pt is just a
coincidence (try "Gutentag" instead of "Hallo") 

Greetings, Taco

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 03:18 PM 1/30/01 +0100, S2P development wrote:
>Hans Hagen wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Interesting. At the top of the page prevdepth = .12pt in pos fonts
>> [probably delta topskip/strutheight or so].
>
>This is the origin of this dimension:
>
>0.13791pt = 0.11493pt (the depth of overshoots in phv8t.tfm) 
>            * 1.2     (from 12pt instead of 10pt) 
>         

How in, in font terminology, a overhoot defined? 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> How in, in font terminology, a overhoot defined?

What do you mean?

I'm sure you understand the basic idea behind overshoot
(the same principle as hanging punctuation).

-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 05:17 PM 1/30/01 +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>Hans Hagen wrote:
>> 
>> How in, in font terminology, a overhoot defined?

sure 

>What do you mean?
>
>I'm sure you understand the basic idea behind overshoot
>(the same principle as hanging punctuation).

\font\bigfont=cmr10 at 100pt \ruledhbox{o}

part of a glyph can go beyond the bbox, but do you mean that this happens
only in cmr and that in other fonts the bbox is a real one? 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: \blank[force] and pos-fonts

[S2P development]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> Me>I'm sure you understand the basic idea behind overshoot
> Me>(the same principle as hanging punctuation).
> 
> \font\bigfont=cmr10 at 100pt \ruledhbox{o}
> 
> part of a glyph can go beyond the bbox, but do you mean that this happens
> only in cmr and that in other fonts the bbox is a real one?

Doesn't have to be this way, but it generally is. Both Type1
and TrueType allow you to define metrics independant of the
glyph shape. In 'real life' fonts though, the bounds are usually
not explicitly set by the font designer but calculated by the
font program instead. The program doesn't know the difference
between overshoots and very small descenders, so it will add
these short depths by default.

Greetings, Taco