* ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
@ 2008-01-15 21:25 Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-15 22:12 ` luigi scarso
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-15 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
...is still not working for me.
For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
required"?
--Joel
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-15 21:25 ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha) Joel C. Salomon
@ 2008-01-15 22:12 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-16 0:47 ` Aditya Mahajan
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-01-15 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 1/15/08, Joel C. Salomon <joelcsalomon@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...is still not working for me.
>
> For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
> suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
> required"?
Works ok here with files from pragma and luatex from
www.luatex.org
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=7.10
DISTRIB_CODENAME=gutsy
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 7.10"
--
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-15 21:25 ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha) Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-15 22:12 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-01-16 0:47 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-01-16 2:47 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 10:37 ` Alex Lubberts
2008-01-18 7:47 ` Olivier
3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-01-16 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> ...is still not working for me.
>
> For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
> suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
> required"?
Can you use Debian sid repositories for Hardy? If so, Norbert Preining
provides deb packages for context, texlive, luatex, and tex-gyre, which
are fairly up-to-date, and may be the easiest way to get a fully working
mkiv.
I use Gusty and have a almost fully working mkiv. I compiled luatex on my
own, and had to set TEXMFCNF and LUAINPUTS variables in my shell.
Aditya
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 0:47 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2008-01-16 2:47 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 3:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-16 2:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Jan 15, 2008 7:47 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> > For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
> > suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
> > required"?
>
> Can you use Debian sid repositories for Hardy? If so, Norbert Preining
> provides deb packages for context, texlive, luatex, and tex-gyre, which
> are fairly up-to-date, and may be the easiest way to get a fully working
> mkiv.
As I understand it, Dr Preining is the Debian maintainer of the
context, luatex, &c. packages, and so the .debs on his website are
previews of the official packages. I'd installed and uninstalled his
packages trying to make things work, but only the install I did today
actually produced PDF output from "texexec --luatex hello.tex". I
did, however need to generate the format files; Norbert, can you
please include that in the ConTeXt package set-up?
(As an aside, texlive-xetex depends on a version of libpoppler that my
Ubuntu system doesn't yet have.)
> I use Gusty and have a almost fully working mkiv. I compiled luatex on my
> own, and had to set TEXMFCNF and LUAINPUTS variables in my shell.
Don't have them in the environment, only in kpathsea, but the
compilation went OK.
Is there a test file with mkiv-only features I can better test my
installation on?
--Joel
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 2:47 ` Joel C. Salomon
@ 2008-01-16 3:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-01-16 17:27 ` Joel C. Salomon
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-01-16 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
>> I use Gusty and have a almost fully working mkiv. I compiled luatex on my
>> own, and had to set TEXMFCNF and LUAINPUTS variables in my shell.
>
> Don't have them in the environment, only in kpathsea, but the
> compilation went OK.
I needed them to get mkiv run properly, otherwise luatools was getting
confused by my mashed up setup.
> Is there a test file with mkiv-only features I can better test my
> installation on?
\ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
This will definitely not work for mkii :)
Aditya
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-15 21:25 ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha) Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-15 22:12 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-16 0:47 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2008-01-16 10:37 ` Alex Lubberts
2008-01-18 7:47 ` Olivier
3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Alex Lubberts @ 2008-01-16 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> ...is still not working for me.
>
> For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
> suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
> required"?
>
For me the linux minimals from minimals.contextgarden.net work perfectly
on Ubuntu 7.10. Very easy to install as well.
Regards,
Alex
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 3:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2008-01-16 17:27 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 23:49 ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-01-17 0:38 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-16 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Jan 15, 2008 10:51 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> > Is there a test file with mkiv-only features I can better test my
> > installation on?
>
> \ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
>
> This will definitely not work for mkii :)
Good point; and here's where I ran into trouble:
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ cat hello_lua.tex
\starttext
Hello World
\ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
\stoptext
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texexec --lutex hello_lua.tex
TeXExec | processing document 'hello_lua.tex'
TeXExec | no ctx file found
TeXExec | tex processing method: context
TeXExec | TeX run 1
TeXExec | writing option file hello_lua.top
TeXExec | using randomseed 657
TeXExec | tex engine: pdftex
TeXExec | tex format: cont-en
This is pdfTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.40.3 (Web2C 7.5.6)
%&-line parsing enabled.
(/usr/share/texmf/web2c/natural.tcx)
entering extended mode
(./hello_lua.tex
ConTeXt ver: 2008.01.02 14:18 MKII fmt: 2008.1.15 int: english/english
language : language en is active
system : cont-new loaded
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-new.tex
systems : beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.tex
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-new.mkii)
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-mtx.tex))
system : cont-old loaded
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-old.tex
loading : Context Old Macros
)
system : cont-fil loaded
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/cont-fil.tex
loading : Context File Synonyms
)
system : cont-sys.rme loaded
(/etc/texmf/tex/context/user/cont-sys.rme
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/type-tmf.tex)
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/type-siz.tex)
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/type-one.tex)
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/type-akb.tex))
bodyfont : 12pt rm is loaded
language : patterns en->ec:ec->1->2:3 uk->ec:ec->2->2:3 de->texnansi:tex
nansi->3->2:3 de->ec:ec->4->2:3 fr->texnansi:texnansi->5->2:3 fr->ec:ec->6->2:3
es->ec:ec->7->2:3 pt->texnansi:texnansi->8->2:3 pt->ec:ec->9->2:3 it->texnansi
:texnansi->10->2:3 it->ec:ec->11->2:3 nl->texnansi:texnansi->12->2:3 nl->ec:ec-
>13->2:3 cz->il2:il2->14->2:3 cz->ec:ec->15->2:3 sk->il2:il2->16->2:3 sk->ec:ec
->17->2:3 pl->pl0:pl0->18->2:3 pl->ec:ec->19->2:3 pl->qx:qx->20->2:3 loaded
specials : tex,postscript,rokicki loaded
system : hello_lua.top loaded
(./hello_lua.top
specials : loading definition file tpd
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/spec-tpd.tex
specials : loading definition file fdf
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/spec-fdf.tex
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/spec-fdf.mkii))
specials : fdf loaded
)
specials : fdf,tpd loaded
)
systems : system commands are disabled
(/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/pdfr-def.tex)
systems : begin file hello_lua at line 1
! Undefined control sequence.
l.3 \ctxlua
{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
?
Is texexec for some reason not actually running luatex here?
--Joel
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 17:27 ` Joel C. Salomon
@ 2008-01-16 23:49 ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-01-17 19:52 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-17 0:38 ` Aditya Mahajan
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-01-16 23:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2008 10:51 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
>>> Is there a test file with mkiv-only features I can better test my
>>> installation on?
>> \ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
>>
>> This will definitely not work for mkii :)
>
> Good point; and here's where I ran into trouble:
> ...
> ! Undefined control sequence.
> l.3 \ctxlua
> {a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
> ?
>
> Is texexec for some reason not actually running luatex here?
Yes ...
> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texexec --lutex hello_lua.tex
--luatex, not --lutex
typos on texexec's command line are silently ignored, and mkii is
still the default, so texexec runs pdftex instead of luatex.
Best wishes,
Taco
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 17:27 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 23:49 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-01-17 0:38 ` Aditya Mahajan
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-01-17 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2008 10:51 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
>>> Is there a test file with mkiv-only features I can better test my
>>> installation on?
>>
>> \ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
>>
>> This will definitely not work for mkii :)
>
> Good point; and here's where I ran into trouble:
>
> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ cat hello_lua.tex
> \starttext
> Hello World
> \ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
> \stoptext
>
> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texexec --lutex hello_lua.tex
> [snip]
> ConTeXt ver: 2008.01.02 14:18 MKII fmt: 2008.1.15 int: english/english
Notice MKII here. This means MKII is running.
Did you actually type --lutex (the correct option is --luatex or simply
--lua)?
Aditya
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-16 23:49 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-01-17 19:52 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-17 20:36 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-17 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Jan 16, 2008 6:49 PM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> > Is texexec for some reason not actually running luatex here?
>
> Yes ...
>
> > chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texexec --lutex hello_lua.tex
>
> --luatex, not --lutex
Good eye!
But now the problem looks different:
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ cat hello_lua.tex
\starttext
Hello World
\ctxlua{a = 1.5 ; b = 1.8 ; c = a*b ; tex.print(c) ;}
\stoptext
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texexec --luatex hello_lua.tex
TeXExec | processing document 'hello_lua.tex'
TeXExec | no ctx file found
TeXExec | tex processing method: context
TeXExec | TeX run 1
TeXExec | writing option file hello_lua.top
TeXExec | using randomseed 734
TeXExec | tex engine: luatex
TeXExec | tex format: cont-en
LuaTools | using format name
///home/chesky/luatex-cache/context/192d6cc536013c8f36d612384a3a539c/formats/cont-en.fmt
LuaTools | no luc/lua with name
///home/chesky/luatex-cache/context/192d6cc536013c8f36d612384a3a539c/formats/cont-en
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.012 seconds
TeXUtil | parsing file hello_lua.tui
TeXUtil | check loading of file 'hello_lua', begin/end problem
TeXUtil | shortcuts : 0
TeXUtil | expansions: 0
TeXUtil | reductions: 0
TeXUtil | divisions : 0
TeXUtil | loaded files: 1
TeXUtil | temporary files: 0
TeXUtil | commands: 3
TeXUtil | programs: 0
TeXUtil | tuo file saved
TeXExec | runtime: 0.399001
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$
...and no PDF file is generated. Any clues as to what I'm still doing wrong?
--Joel
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-17 19:52 ` Joel C. Salomon
@ 2008-01-17 20:36 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-18 0:40 ` Joel C. Salomon
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-01-17 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
What about
$> luatools --variables
and
$>texlua -help
--
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-17 20:36 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-01-18 0:40 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-18 2:44 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-18 0:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Jan 17, 2008 3:36 PM, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
> What about
>
> $> luatools --variables
> and
> $>texlua -help
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ luatools --variables
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texlua -help
Usage: luatex --lua=FILE [OPTION]... [TEXNAME[.tex]] [COMMANDS]
or: luatex --lua=FILE [OPTION]... \FIRST-LINE
or: luatex --lua=FILE [OPTION]... &FMT ARGS
Run luaTeX on TEXNAME, usually creating TEXNAME.pdf.
Any remaining COMMANDS are processed as luatex input, after TEXNAME is read.
Alternatively, if the first non-option argument begins with a backslash,
interpret all non-option arguments as a line of luatex input.
Alternatively, if the first non-option argument begins with a &, the
next word is taken as the FMT to read, overriding all else. Any
remaining arguments are processed as above.
If no arguments or options are specified, prompt for input.
--lua=FILE the lua initialization file
--safer disable some easily exploitable lua commands
--fmt=FORMAT load the format file FORMAT
--ini be initex, for dumping formats
--help display this help and exit
--version output version information and exit
Alternate behaviour models can be obtained by special switches
--luaonly run a lua file, then exit
--luaconly byte-compile a lua file, then exit
Email bug reports to dev-luatex@ntg.nl.
chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-18 0:40 ` Joel C. Salomon
@ 2008-01-18 2:44 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-18 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-01-18 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ luatools --variables
Nothing ?
Strange, here
$>luatools --variables
AFMFONTS=.:$TEXMF/fonts/afm//:$OSFONTDIR//
BIBINPUTS=.:$TEXMF/bibtex/bib//
BIBINPUTS.bibtex8=.:$TEXMF/bibtex/{bib,}//
BSTINPUTS=.:$TEXMF/bibtex/{bst,csf}//
BSTINPUTS.bibtex8=.:$TEXMF/bibtex/{bst,csf,}//
CMAPFONTS=.:$TEXMF/fonts/cmap//
CWEBINPUTS=.:$TEXMF/cweb//
ENCFONTS=.:$TEXMF/fonts/enc//
FC_CACHEDIR=$SELFAUTOLOC/cache
FONTCONFIG_FILE=fonts.conf
<snippet>
parse_first_line=t
parse_first_line.tex=f
pool_free=47500
pool_size=1250000
save_size=5000
shell_escape=f
stack_size=5000
string_vacancies=90000
trie_size=300000
(166 lines)
Do you have luatools in your $PATH ?
It should be in the same dir of texlua.
> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ texlua -help
> Usage: luatex --lua=FILE [OPTION]... [TEXNAME[.tex]] [COMMANDS]
ok, texlua is in your $PATH
--
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-18 2:44 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-01-18 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-01-18 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
luigi scarso wrote:
>> chesky@maxwell:~/Documents/tex practice$ luatools --variables
> Nothing ?
Just in case:
Did you run
$ luatools --generate
and
$ texexec --make --luatex
?
Best wishes,
Taco
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-15 21:25 ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha) Joel C. Salomon
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2008-01-16 10:37 ` Alex Lubberts
@ 2008-01-18 7:47 ` Olivier
2008-01-18 16:45 ` Joel C. Salomon
3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Olivier @ 2008-01-18 7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Quoting "Joel C. Salomon" :
> -- was joelcsalomon@gmail.com on Jan 15, 2008 at 04:25:09PM --
> ...is still not working for me.
>
> For those of you who have used mkiv under Ubuntu (or Debian, I
> suppose), had it worked "out of the box" or is "some assembly
> required"?
I am using Debian packages. It works but as Aditya already said,
you have to export at least those two variables: TEXMFCNF and TEXMFCACHE.
So something like :
$ export TEXMFCNF=/usr/share/texmf/web2c
$ cd ~; mkdir .texmf-cache
$ export TEXMFCACHE=~/.texmf-cache
$ luatools --generate
$ texexec --lua --make --all
and then
$ texexec --luatex test.tex
should work. But (from your mails) you do not seem to have set the
environment variables correctly.
Olivier
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha)
2008-01-18 7:47 ` Olivier
@ 2008-01-18 16:45 ` Joel C. Salomon
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joel C. Salomon @ 2008-01-18 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Jan 18, 2008 2:47 AM, Olivier <billet@eurecom.fr> wrote:
> I am using Debian packages. It works but as Aditya already said,
> you have to export at least those two variables: TEXMFCNF and TEXMFCACHE.
<snip>
> But (from your mails) you do not seem to have set the environment
> variables correctly.
That put me on the right track:
chesky@maxwell:~$ kpsewhich --expand-var '$TEXMFCNF'
/usr/share/texmf/web2c:/usr/local/share/texmf/web2c
chesky@maxwell:~$ luatools --generate
LuaTools | skipping
/usr/share/texmf/web2c:/usr/local/share/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.005 seconds
chesky@maxwell:~$ export TEXMFCNF=/usr/share/texmf/web2c
chesky@maxwell:~$ luatools --generate
LuaTools | loading /usr/share/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf
<many lines of output deleted>
...And now mkiv works!
So do I report as a Debian/Ubuntu package bug that TEXMFCNF is set
with multiple directories, or as a luatools bug that it can't handle a
multiple path?
--Joel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-01-18 16:45 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-01-15 21:25 ConTeXt mkiv on Ubuntu (Hardy alpha) Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-15 22:12 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-16 0:47 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-01-16 2:47 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 3:51 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-01-16 17:27 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-16 23:49 ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-01-17 19:52 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-17 20:36 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-18 0:40 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-18 2:44 ` luigi scarso
2008-01-18 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-01-17 0:38 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-01-16 10:37 ` Alex Lubberts
2008-01-18 7:47 ` Olivier
2008-01-18 16:45 ` Joel C. Salomon
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