From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/41822 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alan Stone" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Geeze, I might try Linux after all... (not too off-tpic I hope) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:44:53 +0200 Message-ID: <326847810806210044r2cc1c1e1v47e8a5d59b579e63@mail.gmail.com> References: <326847810806130328k73f9ed0bw4ec3ede296a29d55@mail.gmail.com> <326847810806191240y180c1e90tc92a8039a85ca804@mail.gmail.com> <6faad9f00806200003s57f528aahf6729ee562297a11@mail.gmail.com> <326847810806200117y3a98e1ddlb6594b5c088ce83d@mail.gmail.com> <326847810806200521j77fd17cbne4654d9ceceeb895@mail.gmail.com> <115224fb0806200527g4d14d25ag7644b7f9b4887cb@mail.gmail.com> <326847810806200639hfb10979o11625179fb3cc193@mail.gmail.com> <6faad9f00806200731t6d1d7fd3mf3ff2d1e7995f7f9@mail.gmail.com> <326847810806200921p1af4ca96l8f7442b810a5092f@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1940630737==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214034396 7596 80.91.229.12 (21 Jun 2008 07:46:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:46:36 +0000 (UTC) To: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jun 21 09:47:20 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K9xoc-0000Ip-7F for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:47:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2551FC07; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:46:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15495-04-3; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:45:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A681FBBA; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:45:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43DB1FB89 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:45:29 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 19690-01-2 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:44:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com (ik-out-1112.google.com [66.249.90.180]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040511FBBE for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:44:53 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so837346ika.2 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.210.30.1 with SMTP id d1mr3878074ebd.26.1214034293808; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.210.136.3 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:41822 Archived-At: --===============1940630737== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8404_4411723.1214034293797" ------=_Part_8404_4411723.1214034293797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks for your extensive comments Aditya. It's (finally) *much* clearer now. > Now you have two options: Either isolate minimal context from the one > provided by the distribution, or make them co-exist. Isolating them is > easy, the minimals even come with a script "setuptex" which does that. So, > you just source setuptex before running context. If you want minimals and > distribution tex to coexits, things are a bit tricky. You need to > understand how the tex distribution works, which is an intangled (for the > want of a better word) mess. I'll take the isolation option then. A question about the minimals... http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals mentions "The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files." What's the difference (in provided functionalities) between the contextgarden minimals and the pragma ones ? Alan On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote: > Yes. If you do not need latex, the safest thing to not install anything > tex related from your distribution and only install the minimals from the > garden. (You need to update using the mechanism provided by the minimals, > and not ctxtools). > > The trouble with this is two-fold. First, you may need to use latex, and > second, many packages on linux require tex, so you get a tex from the > distribution also. > > Now you have two options: Either isolate minimal context from the one > provided by the distribution, or make them co-exist. Isolating them is > easy, the minimals even come with a script "setuptex" which does that. So, > you just source setuptex before running context. If you want minimals and > distribution tex to coexits, things are a bit tricky. You need to > understand how the tex distribution works, which is an intangled (for the > want of a better word) mess. > > However, the more fundamental question is: why do you need to update tex > manually, why doesn't the distribution update tex frequently. Part of the > reason is that it did not need to. Before luatex and xetex, tex binaries > got updated occasionally. So, a periodic update of the binaries was good > enough. As for macro packages, the biggest component is LaTeX, and LaTeX > core is updated *very* slowly. So, again a periodic update was good > enough. > > ConTeXt somehow spoils the party by adding features at an alarmingly fast > rate. So, if you want to use new features you must update. So, someone > needs to package everything for the distribution so that all users can > frequently update context. > > Currently the only distribution that does that is Debian. Norbert Preining > maintains a .deb for context macros which is updated fairly regularly. So, > if you are on a debian based system, you can use Norbert's context > package, and have a fairly recent context (~1-2 months old) distribution. > For most cases this would work, unless you want to test the latest > features. > > >> Side-question: "But if you happen to update TL package" - what does TL >> stand for ? > > Texlive. Currently TUG (Tex User group) releases a DVD each year > containing the recent copy of all tex/latex/context packages and all > binaries needed to run tex and friends on Windows, linux and mac. These > days, most linux distributions use texlive as a source of tex packages > that they include. > > Aditya > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > ------=_Part_8404_4411723.1214034293797 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks for your extensive comments Aditya. It's (finally) *much* clearer now.

> Now you have two options: Either isolate minimal context from the one
> provided by the distribution, or make them co-exist. Isolating them is
> easy, the minimals even come with a script "setuptex" which does that. So,
> you just source setuptex before running context. If you want minimals and
> distribution tex to coexits, things are a bit tricky. You need to
> understand how the tex distribution works, which is an intangled (for the
> want of a better word) mess.

I'll take the isolation option then.

A question about the minimals...

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals mentions "The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files."

What's the difference (in provided functionalities) between the contextgarden minimals and the pragma ones ?

Alan


On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> Yes. If you do not need latex, the safest thing to not install anything
> tex related from your distribution and only install the minimals from the
> garden. (You need to update using the mechanism provided by the minimals,
> and not ctxtools).
>
> The trouble with this is two-fold. First, you may need to use latex, and
> second, many packages on linux require tex, so you get a tex from the
> distribution also.
>
> Now you have two options: Either isolate minimal context from the one
> provided by the distribution, or make them co-exist. Isolating them is
> easy, the minimals even come with a script "setuptex" which does that. So,
> you just source setuptex before running context. If you want minimals and
> distribution tex to coexits, things are a bit tricky. You need to
> understand how the tex distribution works, which is an intangled (for the
> want of a better word) mess.
>
> However, the more fundamental question is: why do you need to update tex
> manually, why doesn't the distribution update tex frequently. Part of the
> reason is that it did not need to. Before luatex and xetex, tex binaries
> got updated occasionally. So, a periodic update of the binaries was good
> enough. As for macro packages, the biggest component is LaTeX, and LaTeX
> core is updated *very* slowly. So, again a periodic update was good
> enough.
>
> ConTeXt somehow spoils the party by adding features at an alarmingly fast
> rate. So, if you want to use new features you must update. So, someone
> needs to package everything for the distribution so that all users can
> frequently update context.
>
> Currently the only distribution that does that is Debian. Norbert Preining
> maintains a .deb for context macros which is updated fairly regularly. So,
> if you are on a debian based system, you can use Norbert's context
> package, and have a fairly recent context (~1-2 months old) distribution.
> For most cases this would work, unless you want to test the latest
> features.
>
>
>> Side-question: "But if you happen to update TL package" - what does TL
>> stand for ?
>
> Texlive. Currently TUG (Tex User group) releases a DVD each year
> containing the recent copy of all tex/latex/context packages and all
> binaries needed to run tex and friends on Windows, linux and mac. These
> days, most linux distributions use texlive as a source of tex packages
> that they include.
>
> Aditya
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

------=_Part_8404_4411723.1214034293797-- --===============1940630737== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1940630737==--