Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Maarten Wisse]

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Hello all fans of ConTeXt,

A friend of mine would like to make a critical edition of a latin text.
It was suggested to him that a TeX module exists which is able to do
that with support for two series of footnotes at the bottom of the text.
I know this module, but its user interface is very unfriendly. My
question is simple: is the possibility to use more that one series of
footnotes at the bottom of the page built in in standard ConTeXt? I
thought I saw anywhere that it was.
Thanks for the answer.
Greetings,

Maarten Wisse

--
Ever seen Microsoft Windows's multitasking capabilities when writing
to a floppy disk? Try it. Try the same on Linux.

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RE: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Berend de Boer]

> It was suggested to him that a TeX module exists which is able to do
> that with support for two series of footnotes at the bottom 
> of the text.

Can you elaborate a bit more? Or say the name of the latex package?

Groetjes,

Berend. (-:

RE: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Steve Grathwohl]

Berend de Boer wrote:

> > It was suggested to him that a TeX module exists which is able to do
> > that with support for two series of footnotes at the bottom
> > of the text.
>
>Can you elaborate a bit more? Or say the name of the latex package?
>
>Groetjes,
>
>Berend. (-:

I think he's referring to EDMAC, which was built as an extension to 
plain but can be used with LaTeX as well.

Steve

-- 
Steve Grathwohl
Duke Mathematical Journal * International Mathematics Research Notices
grath@duke.edu * +001 919-687-3634 * fax: +001 919-688-5595

RE: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Berend de Boer]

> I think he's referring to EDMAC, which was built as an extension to
> plain but can be used with LaTeX as well.

If it works with plain it should work with ConTeXt as well I think.

But how does it look/work?

ConTeXt has the concept of \startlocalfootnotes, but that's fine for
footnotes in tables, things on one page, but probably not very usefull when
page breaking is taking place.

Groetjes,

Berend. (-:

RE: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Steve Grathwohl]

Berend de Boer wrote:

> > I think he's referring to EDMAC, which was built as an extension to
> > plain but can be used with LaTeX as well.
>
>If it works with plain it should work with ConTeXt as well I think.
>
>But how does it look/work?
>
>ConTeXt has the concept of \startlocalfootnotes, but that's fine for
>footnotes in tables, things on one page, but probably not very usefull when
>page breaking is taking place.
>
>Groetjes,
>
>Berend. (-:

 From the EDMAC home page http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/edmac.html

"EDMAC is a program written as a set of plain TeX macros for formatting
complex critical editions.  You mark up your text and notes using the tags
provided by EDMAC, and then TeX will create a beautiful book for you with
the text line numbered, lemmata referred to by line-number, up to six
layers of notes at the bottom of the page (variants, testimonia, etc.), as
well as up to six sets of notes sent to appendices.  It is also possible to
control the layout of each layer of notes separately: single column, two-
or three-column, paragraphed, etc."

I played with it for a short while a few years ago when I toyed with 
the idea of offering to typeset a critical edition of Piers Plowman, 
but I left that for (in George Mallory's great phrase about Everest's 
Kangshung face) "other men, less wise." But it's a powerful tool.

-- 
Steve Grathwohl
Duke Mathematical Journal * International Mathematics Research Notices
grath@duke.edu * +001 919-687-3634 * fax: +001 919-688-5595

RE: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Hans Hagen]

At 05:34 PM 11/22/99 -0400, Steve Grathwohl wrote:
>Berend de Boer wrote:

>"EDMAC is a program written as a set of plain TeX macros for formatting
>complex critical editions.  You mark up your text and notes using the tags
>provided by EDMAC, and then TeX will create a beautiful book for you with
>the text line numbered, lemmata referred to by line-number, up to six
>layers of notes at the bottom of the page (variants, testimonia, etc.), as
>well as up to six sets of notes sent to appendices.  It is also possible to
>control the layout of each layer of notes separately: single column, two-
>or three-column, paragraphed, etc."

I wonder how they do the paragraph insert, since tex does not support them -) 

Anyhow, it sounds like a combination of blocks and buffers (already present) and multiple footnotes. Implementing classes of footnotes is no real problem, but in order not to break existing code, it is not a one hour hack either. 

Posing a limit on the number of classes seems unlogical, so we want as many levels as possible, each tunable in ways similar to the current one, of course working in columns, definable, start stoppable, optional being an end note, etc. I'll put it on my list of todo's.  

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Maarten Wisse]

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Hans Hagen wrote:

> At 05:34 PM 11/22/99 -0400, Steve Grathwohl wrote:
> >Berend de Boer wrote:
>
> >"EDMAC is a program written as a set of plain TeX macros for formatting
> >complex critical editions.  You mark up your text and notes using the tags
> >provided by EDMAC, and then TeX will create a beautiful book for you with
> >the text line numbered, lemmata referred to by line-number, up to six
> >layers of notes at the bottom of the page (variants, testimonia, etc.), as
> >well as up to six sets of notes sent to appendices.  It is also possible to
> >control the layout of each layer of notes separately: single column, two-
> >or three-column, paragraphed, etc."
>
> I wonder how they do the paragraph insert, since tex does not support them -)
>
> Anyhow, it sounds like a combination of blocks and buffers (already present) and multiple footnotes. Implementing classes of footnotes is no real problem, but in order not to break existing code, it is not a one hour hack either.
>
> Posing a limit on the number of classes seems unlogical, so we want as many levels as possible, each tunable in ways similar to the current one, of course working in columns, definable, start stoppable, optional being an end note, etc. I'll put it on my list of todo's.
>
> Hans
>
>

Some notes of the one who asked the question. Personally, I don't like the way critical editions typeset textcritical comments, in two series of footnotes. Readability of these apparatus is low, and therefore I recomended my friend to use footnotes for the bibliographical
comments (the larger ones) and marginnotes for the textual differences. This may not be usual, but readability is certainly higher. Moreover, marginnotes are built in in standard ConTeXt as well as LaTeX.
Ok, the reason for asking my question was that I, erroneously, thought I saw somewhere in the documentation of ConTeXt that it could do the job. With that idea in my mind, I said to my friend that Edmac (indeed, that's what I was pointing at) can do the job, but that the
interface of it is very unfriendly and that I thought that ConTeXt could do it, and that I would sort that out. Commands in EDmac are very complicated to type, such as horrible HTML-like commands as <B>This is a text <\B> Compare such commands to \title{This is a text}
and you see the difference.
Concluding: I've e-mailed the website of EDmac to my friend, along with the site of Piet van Oostrum, to let him read the LaTeX-handleiding, to give him an impression of what normal TeX typesetting is (sorry Hans, but at that time, my opinion was that LaTeX is standard in
Miktex whereas ConTeXt is not. Installing TeX is difficult for dummies, and he really is one. I've now seen fpTeX, but I still think that Miktex is the most convenient distri for win32. I like Yap. Much better than windvi.) He has just finished making his dissertation
camera-ready in Word (379 pages!) and he himself is not quite content about it (quite appropriately, as I heard from others). So I hope to convince him of typesetting his Latin critical editions in LaTeX (or ConTeXt), in particular because TeX is the only platform that
supports hyphenation of the Latin language.
Therefor, I don't think Hans has to do a second round of programming on behalf of me, especially not because in the end, I think critical apparatus in two series of footnotes is not the most beautiful way to do these things. I think there are a lot of things to do on
ConTeXt that are more important, such as documentation etc.
Thanks for all remarks and the answer, even now, when it is: no.
Greetings,

Maarten Wisse

--
Ever seen Microsoft Windows's multitasking capabilities when writing
to a floppy disk? Try it. Try the same on Linux.

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Re: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Hans Hagen]

At 08:54 PM 11/23/99 +0100, Maarten Wisse wrote:

> .... critical texts
>
higher. Moreover, marginnotes are built in in standard ConTeXt as well as LaTeX.

You probably haven't noticed yet that there can be classes of marginal notes, which can be positioned at different places in the margin. This means for instance that you can have marginal notes side to side. 

typesetting is (sorry Hans, but at that time, my opinion was that LaTeX is standard in
>Miktex whereas ConTeXt is not. Installing TeX is difficult for 

I'm not sure if context is in miktex yet. There are however some miktex users on this list! 

>Therefor, I don't think Hans has to do a second round of programming on behalf of me, especially not because in the end, I think critical apparatus in two series of footnotes is not the most beautiful way to do these things. I think there are a lot of things to do on
>ConTeXt that are more important, such as documentation etc.

Ok. I'll give it a lower priority -) Anyhow, implementing multiple layers of footnotes is not that hard: a definition macro and a few commalists handlers for popping and placing them. And, since everything in context is multiple and installable, it could even make sense (at least the multiple endnotes). 

As I already mentioned, paragraph footnotes are the hardest thing to achieve. I have something running, but I'm still sorting out the best way (han the thanh needs them for an old czech bible replica), especially combined with grid snapping columns. I just found myself another hack, so I'm nearing a solution for that problem.

And, I also have to implement pop up footnotes some day, but nobody asked for them yet -)

Hans   

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Possibility to have more than one series of footnotes

[Maarten Wisse]

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Hans Hagen wrote:

> At 05:34 PM 11/22/99 -0400, Steve Grathwohl wrote:
> >Berend de Boer wrote:
>
> >"EDMAC is a program written as a set of plain TeX macros for formatting
> >complex critical editions.  You mark up your text and notes using the tags
> >provided by EDMAC, and then TeX will create a beautiful book for you with
> >the text line numbered, lemmata referred to by line-number, up to six
> >layers of notes at the bottom of the page (variants, testimonia, etc.), as
> >well as up to six sets of notes sent to appendices.  It is also possible to
> >control the layout of each layer of notes separately: single column, two-
> >or three-column, paragraphed, etc."
>
> I wonder how they do the paragraph insert, since tex does not support them -)
>
> Anyhow, it sounds like a combination of blocks and buffers (already present) and multiple footnotes. Implementing classes of footnotes is no real problem, but in order not to break existing code, it is not a one hour hack either.
>
> Posing a limit on the number of classes seems unlogical, so we want as many levels as possible, each tunable in ways similar to the current one, of course working in columns, definable, start stoppable, optional being an end note, etc. I'll put it on my list of todo's.
>
> Hans
>
>

Some notes of the one who asked the question. Personally, I don't like
the way critical editions typeset textcritical comments, in two series
of footnotes. Readability of these apparatus is low, and therefore I
recomended my friend to use footnotes for the bibliographical
comments (the larger ones) and marginnotes for the textual differences.
This may not be usual, but readability is certainly higher. Moreover,
marginnotes are built in in standard ConTeXt as well as LaTeX.
Ok, the reason for asking my question was that I, erroneously, thought I
saw somewhere in the documentation of ConTeXt that it could do the job.
With that idea in my mind, I said to my friend that Edmac (indeed,
that's what I was pointing at) can do the job, but that the
interface of it is very unfriendly and that I thought that ConTeXt could
do it, and that I would sort that out. Commands in EDmac are very
complicated to type, such as horrible HTML-like commands as <B>This is a
text <\B> Compare such commands to \title{This is a text}
and you see the difference.
Concluding: I've e-mailed the website of EDmac to my friend, along with
the site of Piet van Oostrum, to let him read the LaTeX-handleiding, to
give him an impression of what normal TeX typesetting is (sorry Hans,
but at that time, my opinion was that LaTeX is standard in
Miktex whereas ConTeXt is not. Installing TeX is difficult for dummies,
and he really is one. I've now seen fpTeX, but I still think that Miktex
is the most convenient distri for win32. I like Yap. Much better than
windvi.) He has just finished making his dissertation
camera-ready in Word (379 pages!) and he himself is not quite content
about it (quite appropriately, as I heard from others). So I hope to
convince him of typesetting his Latin critical editions in LaTeX (or
ConTeXt), in particular because TeX is the only platform that
supports hyphenation of the Latin language.
Therefor, I don't think Hans has to do a second round of programming on
behalf of me, especially not because in the end, I think critical
apparatus in two series of footnotes is not the most beautiful way to do
these things. I think there are a lot of things to do on
ConTeXt that are more important, such as documentation etc.
Thanks for all remarks and the answer, even now, when it is: no.
Greetings,

Maarten Wisse

--
Ever seen Microsoft Windows's multitasking capabilities when writing
to a floppy disk? Try it. Try the same on Linux.

[-- Attachment #2: Card for Maarten Wisse --]
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