beta

beta

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

In the process of extending math export I decided to finish and 
integrate an old experiment with units. Details can change as can 
configuration.

\usemodule[dimensions]
\setupbackend[export=yes]

\starttext

\startlines
$10\su{km/h}$
$\su{10 km/h}$
\su{10 km/h}
10\su{km/h}
10 \su{km/h}
$10 \su{km/h}$
10 \su{KiloMeter/Hour}
10 \su{kilometer/hour}
10 \su{km/h}
10 \su{kilometer per hour}
10 \su{km / h}
10 \su{ km / h }
10 \su{km/ms2}
10 \su{meter per second}
10 \su{cubic meter}
10 \su{cubic meter per second}
10 \su{cubic meter / second}
$10 \su{cubic meter / second}$
30 \su{kilo pascal }
30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / second}
30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second}
\su{30 kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second}
$30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second }$
30 \su{crap}
30 \su{AC}
$ \frac{10 \su{m/s}}{20 \su{m/s}} $
{\ss 30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / second kelvin}}
\stoplines

\stoptext

I might decide to push it in the core. The su is an abbreviation for 
scientific unit as we already have \unit (which I like more) and \dim is 
also taken. Of course \u would be even nicer but that's a accent 
placement (ok, we could drop all those as we have utf). Using two 
character names is not handy as they look like language switches.

Hans

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Re: beta

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 11.06.2011 um 16:54 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> Hi,
> 
> In the process of extending math export I decided to finish and integrate an old experiment with units. Details can change as can configuration.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I might decide to push it in the core. The su is an abbreviation for scientific unit as we already have \unit (which I like more) and \dim is also taken. Of course \u would be even nicer but that's a accent placement (ok, we could drop all those as we have utf). Using two character names is not handy as they look like language switches.

Nice but i suggest to use \si as name for the command.

What’s still missing is a reimplementation of the \digits macro where you have more control about the decimal and thousand separator and a few more options.

Wolfgang

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Re: beta

[Vedran Miletić]

2011/6/11 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>:
> Nice but i suggest to use \si as name for the command.

+1

>
> What’s still missing is a reimplementation of the \digits macro where you have more control about the decimal and thousand separator and a few more options.

Also +1, it would be cool to have something similar to siunitx[1] in
terms of functionality.

Vedran

[1] http://mirror.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/siunitx/siunitx.pdf
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Re: beta

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans,

Just out of curioisity I tested your example, but mkiv stopped with the error:

	! Undefined control sequence.
	system          > tex > error on line 14 in file units-math-export.tex: Undefined control sequence ...
	l.14 $10\su
	           {km/h}$

Probably I am being somewhat dumb… since the module « dimenesions » is not present in the minimals. Has one to define \su somewhere?
I am reporting this upon using ConTeXt  ver: 2011.06.09 12:49 MKIV.

Best regards: OK

On 11 juin 2011, at 16:54, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> In the process of extending math export I decided to finish and integrate an old experiment with units. Details can change as can configuration.
> 
> \usemodule[dimensions]
> \setupbackend[export=yes]
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \startlines
> $10\su{km/h}$
> $\su{10 km/h}$
> \su{10 km/h}
> 10\su{km/h}
> 10 \su{km/h}
> $10 \su{km/h}$
> 10 \su{KiloMeter/Hour}
> 10 \su{kilometer/hour}
> 10 \su{km/h}
> 10 \su{kilometer per hour}
> 10 \su{km / h}
> 10 \su{ km / h }
> 10 \su{km/ms2}
> 10 \su{meter per second}
> 10 \su{cubic meter}
> 10 \su{cubic meter per second}
> 10 \su{cubic meter / second}
> $10 \su{cubic meter / second}$
> 30 \su{kilo pascal }
> 30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / second}
> 30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second}
> \su{30 kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second}
> $30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / kelvin second }$
> 30 \su{crap}
> 30 \su{AC}
> $ \frac{10 \su{m/s}}{20 \su{m/s}} $
> {\ss 30 \su{kilo pascal square meter / second kelvin}}
> \stoplines
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> I might decide to push it in the core. The su is an abbreviation for scientific unit as we already have \unit (which I like more) and \dim is also taken. Of course \u would be even nicer but that's a accent placement (ok, we could drop all those as we have utf). Using two character names is not handy as they look like language switches.
> 
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>    tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Otared Kavian
Département de Mathématiques
Université de Versailles Saint-Quentin
Bâtiment Fermat
45 avenue des Etats Unis
78035 Versailles cedex

Téléphone: +33 1 39 25 46 42
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 44 
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 46

e-mail: Otared.Kavian@math.uvsq.fr




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Re: beta

[Marco]

On 2011-06-12 Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> wrote:

> Probably I am being somewhat dumb… since the module « dimenesions » is not
> present in the minimals. Has one to define \su somewhere? I am reporting
> this upon using ConTeXt  ver: 2011.06.09 12:49 MKIV.

Read the subject ;)

And give it a shot with 2011.06.11 16:45

Marco


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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 11-6-2011 5:12, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> Am 11.06.2011 um 16:54 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In the process of extending math export I decided to finish and integrate an old experiment with units. Details can change as can configuration.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I might decide to push it in the core. The su is an abbreviation for scientific unit as we already have \unit (which I like more) and \dim is also taken. Of course \u would be even nicer but that's a accent placement (ok, we could drop all those as we have utf). Using two character names is not handy as they look like language switches.
>
> Nice but i suggest to use \si as name for the command.

I don't like that one ... we're not exclusively dealing with si units 
and it's also a language tag.

> What’s still missing is a reimplementation of the \digits macro where you have more control about the decimal and thousand separator and a few more options.

I have a scanner for that as well (needs to be integrated)

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 11-6-2011 5:23, Vedran Miletić wrote:

> Also +1, it would be cool to have something similar to siunitx[1] in
> terms of functionality.

I don't know that one but I seldom model from something else anyway (no 
fun and no time to follow all that is around) .. I'd rather improve what 
we have (and the units module has a rather long history in context). 
Also, I want to stay away from too much tex hackery as in mkiv we follow 
a different approach. One thing that I need to add is
cultural elements (present in the units module and needed for 
educational texts etc).

Hans

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Re: beta

[Otared Kavian]

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On 12 juin 2011, at 09:52, Marco wrote:

> On 2011-06-12 Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Probably I am being somewhat dumb… since the module « dimenesions » is not
>> present in the minimals. Has one to define \su somewhere? I am reporting
>> this upon using ConTeXt  ver: 2011.06.09 12:49 MKIV.
> 
> Read the subject ;)
> 
> And give it a shot with 2011.06.11 16:45
> 
> Marco

Thanks…
I didn't notice the new beta yesterday.
Indeed it works as expected, and it's great!

Best regards: OK

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Re: beta

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Am 12.06.2011 um 12:57 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> On 11-6-2011 5:12, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> 
>> Nice but i suggest to use \si as name for the command.
> 
> I don't like that one ... we're not exclusively dealing with si units

What a lame excuse, “si” is easier to remember than “su” and even
though the code isn’t limited to si units this isn’t a good reason
to avoid the name.

> and it's also a language tag.

Not for ConTeXt:

\starttext
\show\si
\stoptext

> \si=undefined. 

Collision between language tags a context commands do exist since
a long time, e.g. \sl or \it.

>> What’s still missing is a reimplementation of the \digits macro where you have more control about the decimal and thousand separator and a few more options.
> 
> I have a scanner for that as well (needs to be integrated)

Yes i know you have it also commented in the source but the input is
too strict and expect something where you can write

  10000.00

and depending on the setup you can get

  - 10.000,00
  - 10\,000.00
  - 10\,000,00
  - ...

as output.

Wolfgang


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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 12-6-2011 9:15, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> What a lame excuse, “si” is easier to remember than “su” and even
> though the code isn’t limited to si units this isn’t a good reason
> to avoid the name.

I don't like \su either but I needed something that related to \unit 
(which is what I prefer) but the problem is that one then cannot us the 
m-units module at the same time. Well, I could save \unit when loading 
it, and one can wonder if they will be used mixed anyway so we might end 
up with \unit. We have a \m (inline math) macro and I'd like a one 
character one for units and digits and these could be \u and \d if we 
can assume that everyone uses utf (we could make them accent commands 
while dealing with bibtex).

>> and it's also a language tag.
>
> Not for ConTeXt:
>
> \starttext
> \show\si
> \stoptext
>
>> \si=undefined.

anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian

> Collision between language tags a context commands do exist since
> a long time, e.g.
\sl or \it.

which is bad enough (I wonder if we'd have \it as font switch if italian 
had been needed in an earlier stage -)

> Yes i know you have it also commented in the source but the input is
> too strict and expect something where you can write

not that code, it's specific digits code not yet in the distribution

>    10000.00
>
> and depending on the setup you can get
>
>    - 10.000,00
>    - 10\,000.00
>    - 10\,000,00
>    - ...

currently the units code just uses the predefined number scanner (I 
needed a quick hack) but it will get the digits scanner

Hans


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Re: beta

[Mojca Miklavec]

>>> \si=undefined.
>
> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian

No, only to Sinhalese.

SI is just the country code of Slovenia and doesn't interfere at all.

>> Collision between language tags a context commands do exist since
>> a long time, e.g.
>
> \sl or \it.
>
> which is bad enough (I wonder if we'd have \it as font switch if italian had
> been needed in an earlier stage -)

\it for italic is needed by way more people than two-letter code for
switching to Italian.

I prefer to be able to use \sl for slanted than as a switch to
slovenian. I need it approximately two hundred times more often than I
need a language switch. Why would it be any different for Italians and
what is wrong with \language[sl]/\language[it]?

Mojca
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Re: beta

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 00:27, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> \si=undefined.
>>
>> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian
>
> No, only to Sinhalese.

Oh, btw. \su stands for Sundanese, so I strongly suggest not to use it
for units ;)

Mojca
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Re: beta

[Otared Kavian]

On 12 juin 2011, at 23:47, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 12-6-2011 9:15, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>> What a lame excuse, “si” is easier to remember than “su” and even
>> though the code isn’t limited to si units this isn’t a good reason
>> to avoid the name.
> 
> I don't like \su either but I needed something that related to \unit (which is what I prefer) but the problem is that one then cannot us the m-units module at the same time. Well, I could save \unit when loading it, and one can wonder if they will be used mixed anyway so we might end up with \unit. We have a \m (inline math) macro and I'd like a one character one for units and digits and these could be \u and \d if we can assume that everyone uses utf (we could make them accent commands while dealing with bibtex).

…so why not \SIunit or \siunit?
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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 13-6-2011 7:20, Otared Kavian wrote:

> …so why not \SIunit or \siunit?

for the moment I'll go for just \unit (maybe with \un as abbreviation)

when I'm in the mood I'll make a \siunit : \siunit{1in} will then 
typeset 0.0254 m or so

Hans

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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 13-6-2011 12:28, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 00:27, Mojca Miklavec
> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> \si=undefined.
>>>
>>> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian
>>
>> No, only to Sinhalese.

not always ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_S#.C2.A0Slovenia

> Oh, btw. \su stands for Sundanese, so I strongly suggest not to use it
> for units ;)
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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-- 

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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 13-6-2011 12:27, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> what is wrong with \language[sl]/\language[it]?

Or \language[italian] etc. I think it depends on how often one switches 
language. I seldom switch fonts mid-document (using \it etc) as normally 
it is done in an environment.

Hans


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Re: beta

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 22:24, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 13-6-2011 12:28, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>>>>>> \si=undefined.
>>>>
>>>> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian
>>>
>>> No, only to Sinhalese.
>
> not always ....
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_S#.C2.A0Slovenia

No. Always.

This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch language,
that "ch" and "si" should refer to Italian and "it" should refer to
German language.

I suggest to switch the language code for Dutch into "be" and call the
format cont-be :)

Mojca
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Re: beta

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 22:24, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> On 13-6-2011 12:28, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> \si=undefined.
>>>>>
>>>>> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian
>>>>
>>>> No, only to Sinhalese.
>>
>> not always ....
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_S#.C2.A0Slovenia
>
> No. Always.
>
> This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch language,
> that "ch" and "si" should refer to Italian and "it" should refer to
> German language.
>
> I suggest to switch the language code for Dutch into "be" and call the
> format cont-be :)
why not iso 639-3 ?
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20110525.ta

-- 
luigi
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Re: beta

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:36 AM, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Mojca Miklavec
> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 22:24, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>> On 13-6-2011 12:28, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> \si=undefined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anyway, afaik si is relates to slovenian
>>>>>
>>>>> No, only to Sinhalese.
>>>
>>> not always ....
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_S#.C2.A0Slovenia
>>
>> No. Always.
>>
>> This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch language,
>> that "ch" and "si" should refer to Italian and "it" should refer to
>> German language.
>>
>> I suggest to switch the language code for Dutch into "be" and call the
>> format cont-be :)
> why not iso 639-3 ?
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20110525.ta
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20110525.tab


-- 
luigi
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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 14-6-2011 12:06, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch language,

you mean flemish (as belgium also has french) .. actually belgians 
always win the language contest so maybe we should switch to be indeed -)

(which makes me wonder, as animation movies can come with dutch and 
flemisch voice over, there must be such significant differences that we 
might consider flemisch pattern files so it might backfire to you)

Hans

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Re: beta

[Vnpenguin]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 00:54, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 14-6-2011 12:06, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>> This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch language,
>
> you mean flemish (as belgium also has french) .. actually belgians always
> win the language contest so maybe we should switch to be indeed -)
>

<OFFTOPIC>
Stop to speak about belgium/flemish/french! It's a too sensitive
subject for us here :)
</OFFTOPIC>
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Re: OT: Belgium (was: beta)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2011-06-14 um 11:52 schrieb Vnpenguin:

>>> This is exactly like saying that "be" should refer to Dutch  
>>> language,
>>
>> you mean flemish (as belgium also has french) .. actually belgians  
>> always
>> win the language contest so maybe we should switch to be indeed -)
>
> <OFFTOPIC>
> Stop to speak about belgium/flemish/french! It's a too sensitive
> subject for us here :)
> </OFFTOPIC>

In my saturday newspaper there was an article about the botanical  
garden in Brussels - seems like they started to define plants and  
seeds to be either flemish or french. Crazy nationalists!


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: beta

[Ian Lawrence]

Back on topic...

In starting out we often want to write out the units in full - that is
the words, not the abbreviations.

any chance of implementing these? At the moment I have (crudely, I
suspect) a large number of definitions of the kind

\define\metre{\;{\tf m}}
\define\metrew{\;{\tf metre}}
\define\kilometre{\;{\tf km}}
\define\kilometrew{\;{\tf kilometre}}
\define\millimetre{\;{\tf mm}}
\define\millimetrew{\;{\tf millimetre}}
\define\centimetre{\;{\tf cm}}
\define\centimetrew{\;{\tf centimetre}}

Which is *my way* of getting what I wanted - prior to this upgrade...


Ian
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Re: beta

[Hans Hagen]

On 8-7-2011 5:27, Ian Lawrence wrote:
> Back on topic...
>
> In starting out we often want to write out the units in full - that is
> the words, not the abbreviations.
>
> any chance of implementing these? At the moment I have (crudely, I
> suspect) a large number of definitions of the kind
>
> \define\metre{\;{\tf m}}
> \define\metrew{\;{\tf metre}}
> \define\kilometre{\;{\tf km}}
> \define\kilometrew{\;{\tf kilometre}}
> \define\millimetre{\;{\tf mm}}
> \define\millimetrew{\;{\tf millimetre}}
> \define\centimetre{\;{\tf cm}}
> \define\centimetrew{\;{\tf centimetre}}
>
> Which is *my way* of getting what I wanted - prior to this upgrade...

we do have \unit {10 km} and \unit {10 kilo meter} etc but currently 
they expand to km

it's no big deal to have the expandable form (slight variation of the 
old units mechanism) but in mkiv it would be

\defineunit[fullunit][...=yes]

and then \fullunit{10 km}

would that work out ok?

Hans

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