* bib module (again)
@ 2011-07-06 9:00 Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 9:19 ` Taco Hoekwater
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-06 9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Thomas Schmitz, Taco Hoekwater
Hi,
I have a basic problem with the very first step of using bibliographies in ConTeXt: converting BBI to BBL files.
And, as far as I have understood, the only thing that ".bst" files do is sorting. This means that a plain run of bibtex like this ...
\setupbibtex[database=mytry_x.bib]
\starttext
Test
\completepublications
\stoptext
... should convert the entire database (eg. from a ".bib" file) in TeX-parsable records, written in a ".bbl" file.
If I want to shorten many authors to just one followed by "et al." there is the otion "authoretallimit" that specifies the number needed to trigger 'et al.' handling.
This can be set *later* in setuppublicationlist.
But when I run the minimal exmaple above against this database "mytry_x.bib":
@BOOK{daunerliebkonzenschmidt,
author = {Peter Schlechtriem and Horst Konzen},
}
@BOOK{schlechtriemschmidtkessel,
author = {Peter Schlechtriem and Horst Konzen and Karsten Schmidt},
}
... the resulting bbl lookes like this:
\setuppublicationlist[samplesize={SKS},totalnumber=2]
\startpublication[k=daunerliebkonzenschmidt,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem},{Konzen}},y=,
n=1,s=SK]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\stoppublication
\startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem},{}},y=,
n=2,s=SKS]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
\stoppublication
So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!
Is this a bug or a hidden preset that I just didn't found yet?
Any help would be appreciated
Steffen
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 9:00 bib module (again) Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2011-07-06 9:19 ` Taco Hoekwater
2011-07-06 9:38 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2011-07-06 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Thomas Schmitz, Steffen Wolfrum
Hi,
On 07/06/11 11:00, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>
> So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!
This is a limitation of both the bst and the macros, you cannot have
... as explained in AuthorA, AuthorB and AuthorC (1990).
Best wishes,
Taco
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 9:19 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2011-07-06 9:38 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 9:47 ` Taco Hoekwater
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-06 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater
Am 06.07.2011 um 11:19 schrieb Taco Hoekwater:
> Hi,
>
> On 07/06/11 11:00, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>
>> So the three authors *are* already shortened to "a={{Schlechtriem},{}}" only!
>
> This is a limitation of both the bst and the macros, you cannot have
>
> ... as explained in AuthorA, AuthorB and AuthorC (1990).
What is required is
... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).
[Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]
Where/how can the current limitation be changed?
Steffen
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 9:38 ` Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2011-07-06 9:47 ` Taco Hoekwater
2011-07-06 10:03 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2011-07-06 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Steffen Wolfrum
On 07/06/11 11:38, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>
> What is required is
>
> ... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).
>
> [Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
> ... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]
>
>
> Where/how can the current limitation be changed?
I have long since forgotten how to write bst files, and (more
worryingly) I have no idea how to change the mkiv bib 'macros',
so my proposal (especially since you want odd separators as well)
would is: fix the bbl manually so that it looks like this:
\startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
a={{Schlechtriem/Konzen/Schmidt}},y=,
n=2,s=SKS]
\author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
\author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
\author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
\stoppublication
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 9:47 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2011-07-06 10:03 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 10:47 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-06 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater
Am 06.07.2011 um 11:47 schrieb Taco Hoekwater:
>
>
> On 07/06/11 11:38, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>
>> What is required is
>>
>> ... as explained in AuthorA/AuthorB/AuthorC (1990).
>>
>> [Is is required not until *four* authors to set an authoretallimit like
>> ... as explained in AuthorX et al. (1991)]
>>
>>
>> Where/how can the current limitation be changed?
>
> I have long since forgotten how to write bst files, and (more
> worryingly) I have no idea how to change the mkiv bib 'macros',
> so my proposal (especially since you want odd separators as well)
> would is: fix the bbl manually so that it looks like this:
>
> \startpublication[k=schlechtriemschmidtkessel,t=book,
> a={{Schlechtriem/Konzen/Schmidt}},y=,
> n=2,s=SKS]
> \author[]{Peter}[P.]{}{Schlechtriem}
> \author[]{Horst}[H.]{}{Konzen}
> \author[]{Karsten}[K.]{}{Schmidt}
> \stoppublication
as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)
skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries,
finding those how have exactly 3 authors
and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!
hope that nothing will go wrong ...
Steffen
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 10:03 ` Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2011-07-06 10:47 ` Hans Hagen
2011-07-07 9:25 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2011-07-06 10:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater, Steffen Wolfrum
On 6-7-2011 12:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)
>
> skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries,
> finding those how have exactly 3 authors
> and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!
>
> hope that nothing will go wrong ...
you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I
will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority
on my agenda
Hans
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-06 10:47 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2011-07-07 9:25 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-07 13:18 ` Stefan Müller
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-07 9:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Cc: Hans Hagen, Taco Hoekwater, Thomas A. Schmitz
Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 6-7-2011 12:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>
>> as databases usually have *lots* of entries this really is a daring venture :o)
>>
>> skimming through hundreds, thousands of entries,
>> finding those how have exactly 3 authors
>> and stuffing the information from the three "\author" fields into the one "a" field!
>>
>> hope that nothing will go wrong ...
>
> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda
an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:
an article is cited in a footnote.
the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).
if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.
as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.
Steffen
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-07 9:25 ` Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2011-07-07 13:18 ` Stefan Müller
2011-07-07 20:41 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Müller @ 2011-07-07 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 07.07.2011 11:25, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda
>
> an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:
>
> an article is cited in a footnote.
> the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
> if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
> and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).
>
> if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.
>
>
> as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.
>
> Steffen
Hi Steffen,
I think Andreas Schneider posted a working solution for this some time
ago.
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100121.112244.d88e2646.en.html
But it is possible that this does not work anymore with the current beta
(untested).
Best regards,
Stefan.
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-07 13:18 ` Stefan Müller
@ 2011-07-07 20:41 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-07 21:50 ` Andreas Schneider
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-07 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen
Am 07.07.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Stefan Müller:
> On 07.07.2011 11:25, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> Am 06.07.2011 um 12:47 schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>> you can write a script that does it for you ... maybe at some point I will provide some extra hooks in the bib module but it has no priority on my agenda
>>
>> an even more challenging option, that might need some extra hooks, is the "ibid" option:
>>
>> an article is cited in a footnote.
>> the macro looks if this article is already cited before.
>> if so it looks if this is exactly the same article as cited directly before.
>> and it makes sure that it is not the first cite on the current page (resp. spread).
>>
>> if all these are true, the \cite command gives an "Ibid." instead of the full cite.
>>
>>
>> as this is provided for latex users by Philipp Lehman with his biblatex package, it is considered to be kind of standard by some publisher today.
>>
>> Steffen
>
> Hi Steffen,
>
> I think Andreas Schneider posted a working solution for this some time ago. http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100121.112244.d88e2646.en.html
>
> But it is possible that this does not work anymore with the current beta (untested).
>
> Best regards,
> Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
thanks for the note. Unfortunately Andreas' module doesn't work anymore.
I had a correspondence with him on that in April this year:
he could reproduce the error, but had no idea what the reason might be,
resp. what changes in MkIV now cause a conflict with his module.
Maybe Hans knows?
Steffen
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-07 20:41 ` Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2011-07-07 21:50 ` Andreas Schneider
2011-07-15 9:02 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schneider @ 2011-07-07 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context; +Cc: Steffen Wolfrum
[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1362 bytes --]
On Thursday, July 7, 2011 22:41 Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> thanks for the note. Unfortunately Andreas' module doesn't work anymore.
> I had a correspondence with him on that in April this year:
> he could reproduce the error, but had no idea what the reason might be,
> resp. what changes in MkIV now cause a conflict with his module.
> Maybe Hans knows?
> Steffen
After a lot of work with ConTeXt the past few weeks, I had some more
thoughts on possible causes for this problem. I finally found the
culprits:
\expandoneargafter doesn't seem to be around anymore ... it works fine
without, though.
\doifnotempty doesn't quite seem to work (the way I intend it to), so
I replaced them with \doifnot{...}{}{...}
I attached the current "module" (yes, it's not really a module, but
it's slightly more convenient to use that way ... the whole thing is
nothing more than a workaround anyway).
I hope I haven't killed any functionality while toying around and
hunting the bug, but at least my Diploma Thesis looks still right when
processed with that "module".
Since I currently don't use that module actively, I will probably not
enhance or otherwise improve it. So if anyone else feels like
providing a better solution for the Ibidem-problem: please do!
--
Best Regards,
Andreas
[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1.1.2: t-mycite.tex --]
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\def\mycite{\dodoubleempty\domycite}
\def\defaultciterepeat{Ebenda}
\def\defaultciteprefix{Vgl. }
\def\defaultcitepage{S. }
\def\defaultcitechapter{Kap. }
\def\domycite[#1][#2]{%
\ifsecondargument%
\getparameters[MCP][prefix={\defaultciteprefix},page=,chapter=,suffix=,repeat=,#2]%
\doinsertmycite[#1]{\MCPprefix}{%
\doifnot{\MCPpage}{}{\ \defaultcitepage\MCPpage.}%
\doifnot{\MCPchapter}{}{\ \defaultcitechapter\MCPchapter.}%
\doifnot{\MCPsuffix}{}{\ \MCPsuffix}%
}%
\else%
\doinsertmycite[#1]{\defaultciteprefix}{}%
\fi%
}
\def\doinsertmycite[#1]#2#3{%
\footnote{%
\doifelse{\MCPrepeat}{yes}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{#1}}{\doif{\MCPrepeat}{no}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{}}}%
#2\doifnot{#2}{}{\strut}%prefix
\doifelse{\getvalue{mycitelast}}{#1}%
{\doifelse{#2}{}%
{\defaultciterepeat}%
{\lowercase{\defaultciterepeat}}%If there's a prefix, lower-case the cite-repeat string
.%
}%
{\doifelse{\getvalue{mycitepast #1}}{used}%
{\bgroup%
\getcitedata[title][#1] to \bibtitle%
\getcitedata[arttitle][#1] to \bibarttitle%
\cite[alternative=authoryear][#1]. {\it\bibtitle\bibarttitle}.%
\egroup}%
{\cite[alternative=data][#1]}%
}%
#3%suffix
\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{#1}%
\global\setvalue{mycitepast #1}{used}%
}%
}
%Reset last citation on page break (which we check when placing footnotes)
\appendtoks
\doifnoteonsamepageelse[footnote]{}{\global\setvalue{mycitelast}{}}
\to\everyinsidenoteinsert
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]
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* Re: bib module (again)
2011-07-07 21:50 ` Andreas Schneider
@ 2011-07-15 9:02 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2011-07-15 9:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi,
Am 07.07.2011 um 23:50 schrieb Andreas Schneider:
> I hope I haven't killed any functionality while toying around and
> hunting the bug, but at least my Diploma Thesis looks still right when
> processed with that "module".
could you provide a (minimal) example that demonstrates the functionality you have intended?
Thanks a lot for your efforts,
Steffen
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Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2011-07-06 9:00 bib module (again) Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 9:19 ` Taco Hoekwater
2011-07-06 9:38 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 9:47 ` Taco Hoekwater
2011-07-06 10:03 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-06 10:47 ` Hans Hagen
2011-07-07 9:25 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-07 13:18 ` Stefan Müller
2011-07-07 20:41 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2011-07-07 21:50 ` Andreas Schneider
2011-07-15 9:02 ` Steffen Wolfrum
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