* [NTG-context] index sort order (de)
@ 2024-05-14 16:57 Henning Hraban Ramm
2024-07-07 9:46 ` [NTG-context] " Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2024-05-14 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi,
I checked the German index sorting rules, and as far as I can tell, all
of them are somewhat wrong.
– de, default, or no setting (just mainlanguage de)
– Duden
- DIN 5007-1(:2005)
- DIN 5007-2(:1996)
- de-AT
IMO, "Duden" is obsolete, should be the same as default; it makes no
sense to have a default setting that doesn’t adhere to the official
rules. If Û#m not mistaken it’s also the same as DIN 5007-1; maybe there
was a difference before 2005. (DIN 5007-2 and de-AT have their uses.)
The order of umlauts etc. should be ok.
[ß]
In tex/context/base/mkiv/sort-lan.lua, ß is replaced by s, while it
should be sorted like ss in default and both DIN versions. (de-AT sorts
ss after ß.)
[upper-/lowercase]
While casing is not mentioned in Wikipedia
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetische_Sortierung), Duden „Satz
und Korrektur“ says:
Uppercase characters get sorted the same as lowercase (i.e. mixed), but
if both appear, lowercase comes first.
ATM all German settings sort lowercase behind uppercase.
Generally, default method seems to be not "default" but "before". Does
this make sense?
If we look at the method presets, there’s none for {zm,pm,zc,zm,uc}
(upper like lower, ignore diacritics – basic default for German).
"""
\mainlanguage[de]
\setupregister[index][language=de]
\starttext
\index{Apfel}
\index{Äpfel}
\index{apfel}
\index{äpfel}
\index{aepfel}
\index{Aepfel}
\index{Ápfel}
\index{ápfel}
\page
\completeindex
\stoptext
"""
default order should be:
aepfel
Aepfel
apfel
Apfel
äpfel
Äpfel
ápfel
Ápfel
aqua
DIN 5007-2 sorts like:
aepfel
Aepfel
äpfel
Äpfel
apfel
Apfel
ápfel
Ápfel
aqua
de-AT sorts like:
aepfel
Aepfel
apfel
Apfel
aqua
äpfel
Äpfel
ápfel
Ápfel
Hraban
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread* [NTG-context] Re: index sort order (de)
2024-05-14 16:57 [NTG-context] index sort order (de) Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2024-07-07 9:46 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2024-07-08 15:40 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2024-07-07 9:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Would any of the German users object to a change of the default?
Am 14.05.24 um 18:57 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm:
> Hi,
> I checked the German index sorting rules, and as far as I can tell, all
> of them are somewhat wrong.
>
> – de, default, or no setting (just mainlanguage de)
> – Duden
> - DIN 5007-1(:2005)
> - DIN 5007-2(:1996)
> - de-AT
>
> IMO, "Duden" is obsolete, should be the same as default; it makes no
> sense to have a default setting that doesn’t adhere to the official
> rules. If I’m not mistaken it’s also the same as DIN 5007-1; maybe there
> was a difference before 2005. (DIN 5007-2 and de-AT have their uses.)
>
> The order of umlauts etc. should be ok.
>
> [ß]
> In tex/context/base/mkiv/sort-lan.lua, ß is replaced by s, while it
> should be sorted like ss in default and both DIN versions. (de-AT sorts
> ss after ß.)
>
> [upper-/lowercase]
> While casing is not mentioned in Wikipedia
> (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetische_Sortierung), Duden „Satz
> und Korrektur“ says:
>
> Uppercase characters get sorted the same as lowercase (i.e. mixed), but
> if both appear, lowercase comes first.
>
> ATM all German settings sort lowercase behind uppercase.
>
>
>
> Generally, default method seems to be not "default" but "before". Does
> this make sense?
>
> If we look at the method presets, there’s none for {zm,pm,zc,zm,uc}
> (upper like lower, ignore diacritics – basic default for German).
>
> """
> \mainlanguage[de]
> \setupregister[index][language=de]
>
> \starttext
>
> \index{Apfel}
> \index{Äpfel}
> \index{apfel}
> \index{äpfel}
> \index{aepfel}
> \index{Aepfel}
> \index{Ápfel}
> \index{ápfel}
>
> \page
> \completeindex
>
> \stoptext
> """
>
> default order should be:
>
> aepfel
> Aepfel
> apfel
> Apfel
> äpfel
> Äpfel
> ápfel
> Ápfel
> aqua
>
> DIN 5007-2 sorts like:
>
> aepfel
> Aepfel
> äpfel
> Äpfel
> apfel
> Apfel
> ápfel
> Ápfel
> aqua
>
> de-AT sorts like:
>
> aepfel
> Aepfel
> apfel
> Apfel
> aqua
> äpfel
> Äpfel
> ápfel
> Ápfel
>
>
>
>
> Hraban
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
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