Re: \showmakeup adds unwanted space despite accurate readings; \qquad mandatory before \TeX\

[Carlos <linguafalsa@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Jul 06, 2023 at 12:57:57PM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2023 at 09:16:58AM -0400, Carlos wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:52:30PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > On 7/5/2023 6:38 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 06:12:32PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > On 7/5/2023 5:53 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 04:43:56PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > > > > > On 7/5/2023 3:18 PM, Carlos wrote:
> > > > > > > > \showmakeup on \TeX\ shows a
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > tSP:3.282
> > > > > > > > THK:-1.721
> > > > > > > > H__E
> > > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > > HK:-1.291
> > > > > > > > SP:3.282
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > no MWE includes so clueless
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > \starttypescript[mylucidaserif]
> > > > > >     \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightRegular]    [file:LucidaBrightRegular]
> > > > > >     \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightItalic]     [file:LucidaBrightItalic]
> > > > > >     \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiBold]       [file:LucidaBrightDemiBold]
> > > > > >     \definefontsynonym[LucidaBrightDemiItalic] [file:LucidaBrightDemiItalic]
> > > > > > \stoptypescript
> > > > > Hm, isn't that this lucida rip off again? Maybe bad metricks then but I'm
> > > > > not going to look into that as the official TUG lucida opentype fonts
> > > > > perform okay.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hans
> > > > 
> > > > The first sentence is irrelevant. And a guess. Bad metrics is not the
> > > > culprit
> > > > 
> > > > if it were true, the same problem would be under lualatex, correct?
> > > 
> > > well, who knows what (me)tricks those fonts have embedded .. are these the
> > > official TUG lucida open type fonts? if so,
> > > 
> > > \setupbodyfont[lucida]
> > > 
> > > should just work (btw, you also don't set up math)
> > > 
> > > > But it's not there.
> > > I can't (and won't) check that as I don't have (lua)latex installed nor have
> > > those fonts. I also don't see where this \qquad is in your example.
> > 
> > 
> > Using the same fonts under lualatex yields \TeX\ without an issue. 
> > 
> > \documentclass{article}
> > 
> > \usepackage{unicode-math}
> > 
> > \defaultfontfeatures{Ligatures=TeX}
> > 
> > \setmainfont[
> >       ItalicFont=LucidaBrightItalic,
> >         BoldFont=LucidaBrightDemiBold,
> >   BoldItalicFont=LucidaBrightDemiItalic,
> >   ]{LucidaBrightRegular}
> > %
> > \setsansfont[
> >       ItalicFont=LucidaSansOblique,
> >         BoldFont=LucidaSansDemiBold,
> >   BoldItalicFont=LucidaSansDemiOblique,
> >   ]{LucidaSansRegular}
> > %
> > \setmonofont[
> > %      ItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterOblique,
> >         BoldFont=LucidaTypewriterBold,
> > %  BoldItalicFont=LucidaTypewriterBoldOblique,
> >   ]{LucidaTypewriterRegular}
> > 
> > \begin{document}
> > 
> > {\rm    \input{knuth}}
> > 
> > \textsf{\input{knuth}}
> > 
> > \end{document}
> > 
> > > 
> > > As for the \showmakup ... it is used extensively and afaiks there are no
> > > issues with it.
> > 
> > After running lualatex the problem dissappears. Or it seems like it. 
> > 
> 
> I take it back. It doesn't disappear. It's still there.  \showmakeup
> yields the right readings but yet the kerning is off on \TeX\.
> 
> With \showmakeup everything ‹seems› correct. I guess the readings
> output are correct, and also, amazingly, the horizontal kerning,
> as you aptly named it, for \TeX\
> 
> Not under lualatex. Everytihng seems fine there.
> 
> But I perfectly understand that there would not be any support for these
> fonts. Thanks though! 
> 
> (trying to send this message with an attachment as before but it wouldn't
> go through) 


In other words, and please, just ignore my message. 

But it seems as if \showmakeup masks the problem. Dont' get me wrong, I
find \showmakeup output as one of the best indicators out there. 

But if one were to say 

{\rm \qquad{\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!\!hurt \TeX\ significantly}}

the readings are quite probably as accurate as readings can ever be, but
at the same time, \TeX\ is displayed perfectly, which shouldn't have. 

It really doesn't matter how many quad quad quad quad happened to be, or
how many negative spaces happened to be included, because it never gets
it quite right unless \showmakeup is used 

This is quite interesting actually. 

If, for example, with \showmakeup, one were to say within the same document 

\hbox to 1cm{\ss \input{knuth}}

or rather, \vbox to 1cm{\ss \input{knuth}} or whatever

\showmakeup displays it astonishingly correctly indeed

anyhow


___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________