* Re: Place footnote after reference
@ 2019-07-22 16:34 Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 17:11 ` Rik Kabel
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Huseyin Özoguz @ 2019-07-22 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: taco@elvenkind.com >> Taco Hoekwater
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Hi,
> But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
> never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
> *not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
> settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.
I have this problem everywhere in a 400-page project with hundrets of
footnotes and no special grid settings at all. How would you solve this
situation (my minexamle):
\showgrid
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
\stoptext
The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
Thanks
Huseyin
--
Huseyin Özoguz
E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 16:34 Place footnote after reference Huseyin Özoguz
@ 2019-07-22 17:11 ` Rik Kabel
2019-07-22 17:14 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-23 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Rik Kabel @ 2019-07-22 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
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On 7/22/2019 12:34, Huseyin Özoguz wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
>> never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
>> *not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
>> settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.
>
> I have this problem everywhere in a 400-page project with hundrets of
> footnotes and no special grid settings at all. How would you solve
> this situation (my minexamle):
>
> \showgrid
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
>
> Thanks
> Huseyin
>
> --
> Huseyin Özoguz
>
> E-Mail:h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
>
Have you tried \setupnote[footnote][before={\blank[none]}] ?
--
Rik
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 16:34 Place footnote after reference Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 17:11 ` Rik Kabel
@ 2019-07-22 17:14 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-22 18:46 ` Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-23 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2019-07-22 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Huseyin Özoguz; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:34:34 +0200
Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor
> typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is
> not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So
> the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page
> seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
notes would appear where needed.
Alan
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 17:14 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2019-07-22 18:46 ` Huseyin Özoguz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Huseyin Özoguz @ 2019-07-22 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Braslau; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
> space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
> notes would appear where needed.
Would be possibe in some cases, but not in mine: I have many small
footnones, only a few words, and some very long with several lines. With
your solution I would waste 50%+ of the area or - as an alternative - I
had to split the long footnotes across several pages and their
footnote-areas. Actually that might be an interesting workaround ... I
will try it, but it would cost still a lot of space and pages.
Huseyin
Huseyin Özoguz
E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
Am 22.07.2019 um 19:14 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:34:34 +0200
> Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
>
>> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor
>> typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is
>> not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So
>> the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page
>> seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
> So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
> space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
> notes would appear where needed.
>
> Alan
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 16:34 Place footnote after reference Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 17:11 ` Rik Kabel
2019-07-22 17:14 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2019-07-23 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2019-07-23 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi,
> On 22 Jul 2019, at 18:34, Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
>
>
> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable.
ConTeXt does not skip too much in this example, it the second footnote
will just not fit with the (default) parameter set ConTeXt is using.
If the footnote 2 would be on the first page, that is an extra line for
the reference line, and an extra line for the actual note. There is
an implicit \blank before the footnote rule, and that is a third ‘line’.
Since there only is 2 lines (and a bit) of space available, it will not fit.
Disable the default \blank with:
\setupnote[footnote][before=]
and both notes will fit on the first page.
Best wishes,
Taco
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
@ 2019-07-23 8:48 Huseyin Özoguz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Huseyin Özoguz @ 2019-07-23 8:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: taco; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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Thank Taco, that worked in the example, of course the general problem
stays (thanks to Rik Kabel, too).
But with your suggestion I dicovered a interesting behaviour, see this
example:
\showgrid
\setupnote[footnote][before=]
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} That
does\footnote{Footnote 3} only\footnote{Footnote 4} work in special cases.
\stoptext
Now Context indeed sets the third and fourth footnote on the second
page, but leaves the reference to them on the last line of the first
page. This is exactly the behaviour I want in general. Could we force that?
/For testing: /If we add another footnote in the example above, it fails
again - despite of the possibility to just typeset the lines exactly
like in the example above, just move the footnotes on the next page, not
the references - here might be some logic-mistake at work, because there
should be no difference in my opinion between the examples:
\showgrid
\setupnote[footnote][before=]
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote extra} \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what
}\footnote{Footnote 2} That does\footnote{Footnote 3}
only\footnote{Footnote 4} work in special cases.
\stoptext
--
Huseyin Özoguz
E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 14:37 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-22 15:00 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2019-07-22 18:01 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2019-07-22 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Alan Braslau
Alan Braslau schrieb am 22.07.2019 um 16:37:
> I do not know the details, but take a look at the following keywords
> (which do the *opposite* of what you are seeking):
>
> \setupnote
> [footnote]
> [split=verystrict,scope=page]
The scope setting isn't used in the current beta and the code is
commented in the source.
Wolfgang
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 14:37 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2019-07-22 15:00 ` Taco Hoekwater
2019-07-22 18:01 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2019-07-22 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi,
> On 22 Jul 2019, at 16:37, Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:27:45 +0200
> Denis Maier <maier.de@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
>> With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a
>> command ` \AtBeginShipoutNext`:
>>
>> ```
>> \footnotemark
>> \clearpage
>> \AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}
ConTeXt has a token register called \everybeforeoutput, which sounds
somewhat similar to me. The only problem is that it does not auto-reset,
so you have to do that yourself (by globally redefining the macro
that is called)
\def\outstuff
{\footnotetext{Whatever}%
\gdef\outstuff{}}
\prependtoks \outstuff \to \everybeforeoutput
(there is also \everyafteroutput)
Whether that is usable or not for this problem, I do not know …
But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
*not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.
Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 14:27 ` Denis Maier
@ 2019-07-22 14:37 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-22 15:00 ` Taco Hoekwater
2019-07-22 18:01 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2019-07-22 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Denis Maier; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:27:45 +0200
Denis Maier <maier.de@gmail.com> wrote:
> llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
> With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a
> command ` \AtBeginShipoutNext`:
>
> ```
> \footnotemark
> \clearpage
> \AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}
> ```
>
> This only works for individual footnotes, but it's already quite
> useful. Is there something similar for ConTeXt?
> I can think of at least three situations:
>
> 1. Put footnote text to the next page for a single footnote.
> 2. Allow footnote text on next page for all footnotes.
> 3. Allow footnote text on next page of a double page spread for all
> footnotes.
>
> Best,
> Denis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am Mo., 22. Juli 2019 um 08:43 Uhr schrieb Huseyin Özoguz <
> h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the
> > footenotereference. See this example:
> >
> > \showgrid
> > \starttext
> > \input tufte
> > \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> > \input tufte
> > \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2}
> > \input tufte
> > \stoptext
> >
> > But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.
> >
> > Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER
> > move lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference
> > beging on the same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next
> > page, after the reference.
> >
> > Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with
> > grid=yes, so the default-setting is not suitable.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Huseyin
I do not know the details, but take a look at the following keywords
(which do the *opposite* of what you are seeking):
\setupnote
[footnote]
[split=verystrict,scope=page]
Alan
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* Re: Place footnote after reference
2019-07-22 6:38 Huseyin Özoguz
@ 2019-07-22 14:27 ` Denis Maier
2019-07-22 14:37 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Denis Maier @ 2019-07-22 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a command `
\AtBeginShipoutNext`:
```
\footnotemark
\clearpage
\AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}
```
This only works for individual footnotes, but it's already quite useful.
Is there something similar for ConTeXt?
I can think of at least three situations:
1. Put footnote text to the next page for a single footnote.
2. Allow footnote text on next page for all footnotes.
3. Allow footnote text on next page of a double page spread for all
footnotes.
Best,
Denis
Am Mo., 22. Juli 2019 um 08:43 Uhr schrieb Huseyin Özoguz <
h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:
> Hello,
>
> ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the
> footenotereference. See this example:
>
> \showgrid
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input
> tufte
> \stoptext
>
> But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.
>
> Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER move
> lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference beging on the
> same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next page, after the
> reference.
>
> Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with grid=yes, so
> the default-setting is not suitable.
>
> Thanks
> Huseyin
>
>
> --
> Huseyin Özoguz
>
> E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Place footnote after reference
@ 2019-07-22 6:38 Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 14:27 ` Denis Maier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Huseyin Özoguz @ 2019-07-22 6:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hello,
ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the
footenotereference. See this example:
\showgrid
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
\stoptext
But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.
Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER move
lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference beging on the
same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next page, after the
reference.
Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with grid=yes, so
the default-setting is not suitable.
Thanks
Huseyin
--
Huseyin Özoguz
E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2019-07-22 16:34 Place footnote after reference Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 17:11 ` Rik Kabel
2019-07-22 17:14 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-22 18:46 ` Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-23 7:41 ` Taco Hoekwater
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2019-07-23 8:48 Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 6:38 Huseyin Özoguz
2019-07-22 14:27 ` Denis Maier
2019-07-22 14:37 ` Alan Braslau
2019-07-22 15:00 ` Taco Hoekwater
2019-07-22 18:01 ` Wolfgang Schuster
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