From: Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>,
Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>
Subject: Re: what defines the font size?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 11:57:45 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <40a0e2ef-8ce1-e0a5-7207-57972724e46d@xs4all.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <919343B5-4CB9-42B6-9648-FA2402B77E70@elvenkind.com>
On 10/18/2018 10:37 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
>
> Let me go back an try to answer the original question:
>
>> On 15 Oct 2018, at 21:21, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> sorry for this basic question, but what defines the size in a font?
>
> The font designer decides on the ‘natural’ size of the font.
> There are two parts to this.
>
> First, what the ‘natural’ size indicates is the designer’s
> _intended use size_ for the font, such that when you plan
> to use the font “Times-Roman” without any special rescaling,
> it should in fact be equivalent to “Times-Roman at ’natural size’”.
>
> For most fonts, this ‘natural size’ is 10pt, but special display
> or footnote fonts may have a different intended use size, and the
> font designer may have made special glyph adjustments for that
> purpose. For example, the computer modern family has special fonts
> with a ‘natural’ size anywhere between 5pt and 17pt. The glyphs in
> the specific fonts with a smaller ‘natural’ size (like 8pt)
> are in fact a little bit bolder and wider than the same glyphs in
> the font designed to be used at 10pt. This makes sense when you
> consider that the 8pt font is likely be used along with the 10pt
> font for e.g. footnotes. The 10pt font used at 8pt size would look
> thinner and weaker than the actual font designed for 8pt.
>
> Second, a design size in points like ‘10pt’ is somewhat misleading,
> because what it actually is, is just a different way of saying “at
> the expected size for traditional main text”. The “10pt" is not
> necessarily a measure of _anything_ in the font. In fact, font designers
> sometimes do not use a “XXpt” design size at all.The Minion font family
> has fonts with names like "Minion Pro Caption" and "Minion Pro Display”,
> which is actually a better indication of the information the font
> designer wants to convey.
>
>
> That leaves the question of what the actual size is of a font used
> at “10pt”. As explained above, there are no hard rules. But usually
> for a modern font the “10pt" is the _vertical_ space needed to enclose
> all of the ascenders and descenders in the font when all the glyphs
> are overlaid on top of each other. Traditionally, this was also the
> with of an ‘em’, going back to the Roman era, where inscribed text fitted
> characters into a square. But these days that is no longer always the
> case, since some font families have condensed or extended members
> (and it really only applied to ‘upright’ fonts anyways).
>
> In short:
>
>> If two fonts have the same size, I think there may be a dimension which
>> has the same length in both. Which one is this?
>
> No, there is no such thing. "TeX Gyre Bonum and TeX Gyre Adventor at twelve
> point” really only means this:
>
> "TeX Gyre Bonum at a somewhat larger size than the TeX Gyre Bonum designer
> intended and TeX Gyre Adventor at a somewhat larger size than the TeX Gyre
> Adventor designer intended"
>
> Nothing more, nothing less.
A nice explanation.
In context one can actually scale in two more ways than standard tex but
it's more a gimmick than useful:
\starttext
% at : fraction of design size
% sa : fraction of current bodyfont size
% ht : fraction of font ascender
% cp : fraction of height of glyph X
\starttexdefinition ShowThem #1#2#3
\startoverlay
{\color[trace:r]{\definedfont[#1*default #3]This is a just a
simple line.}}
{\color[trace:g]{\definedfont[#2*default #3]This is a just a
simple line.}}
\stopoverlay
\stoptexdefinition
\ShowThem {dejavu-sans} {ibmplexsans-regular} {at 12pt}
\ShowThem {dejavu-sans} {ibmplexsans-regular} {sa 1}
\ShowThem {dejavu-sans} {ibmplexsans-regular} {ht 12pt}
\ShowThem {dejavu-sans} {ibmplexsans-regular} {cp 12pt}
\blank
\ShowThem {dejavu-serif} {texgyrepagella-regular} {at 12pt}
\ShowThem {dejavu-serif} {texgyrepagella-regular} {sa 1}
\ShowThem {dejavu-serif} {texgyrepagella-regular} {ht 12pt}
\ShowThem {dejavu-serif} {texgyrepagella-regular} {cp 12pt}
\blank
\ShowThem {lmroman12-regular} {lucidabrightot} {at 12pt}
\ShowThem {lmroman12-regular} {lucidabrightot} {sa 1}
\ShowThem {lmroman12-regular} {lucidabrightot} {ht 12pt}
\ShowThem {lmroman12-regular} {lucidabrightot} {cp 12pt}
\stoptext
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-10-18 9:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-10-15 19:21 Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-15 20:02 ` Ulrike Fischer
2018-10-15 20:59 ` Hans Hagen
2018-10-16 7:07 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2018-10-16 7:35 ` Hans Hagen
2018-10-17 9:01 ` Ulrike Fischer
2018-10-16 17:50 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-16 20:52 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2018-10-17 9:13 ` luigi scarso
2018-10-17 16:15 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-18 8:44 ` luigi scarso
2018-10-16 17:48 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-16 22:59 ` Hans Hagen
2018-10-17 15:59 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-17 9:02 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2018-10-17 16:14 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-17 17:05 ` Hans Hagen
2018-10-17 17:10 ` Alan Braslau
2018-10-17 17:13 ` Alan Braslau
2018-10-18 7:54 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2018-10-18 8:20 ` Hans Hagen
2018-10-19 6:24 ` luigi scarso
2018-10-19 8:15 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2018-10-22 19:10 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-10-18 8:37 ` Taco Hoekwater
2018-10-18 9:57 ` Hans Hagen [this message]
2018-10-18 16:38 ` Pablo Rodriguez
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=40a0e2ef-8ce1-e0a5-7207-57972724e46d@xs4all.nl \
--to=j.hagen@xs4all.nl \
--cc=ntg-context@ntg.nl \
--cc=taco@elvenkind.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).