more footnotes:-)

more footnotes:-)

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear partners in crime,

I have come across a situation where, in a left-to-right document, I need 
to make the footnotes operate right to left: that is, the footnote numeral 
and rule should be on the right side of the page. Now when using the 
global direction changes that eomega/Gamma offers, this is trivial for a 
global right-to-left document (\pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT are the 
global settings), but in a globally left-to-right document I have not been 
able to get this to work locally.

To explain:

\textdir TRT

and

\pardir TRT

locally switch the text and paragraph directions respectively, but not the 
footnote markers and rule. This is correct behavior of course. But I have 
an article that includes a long right-to-left extract with footnotes, and 
those footnotes need to be RL in the sense described above (numeral 
+ rule). Is there any way to add a parameter option to \setupfoonotes 
which, between---say, a \start-\stop---that can locally switch the 
location of the numeral and marker to RL?

Please help: I'm supposed to send this thing to the printer next week:-))

Best
Idris

PS \pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT don't seem to help this proble when 
applied in a local context.

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more footnotes:-)

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

> Dear partners in crime,
>
> I have come across a situation where, in a left-to-right document, I 
> need to make the footnotes operate right to left: that is, the 
> footnote numeral and rule should be on the right side of the page. Now 
> when using the global direction changes that eomega/Gamma offers, this 
> is trivial for a global right-to-left document (\pagedir TRT and 
> \bodydir TRT are the global settings), but in a globally left-to-right 
> document I have not been able to get this to work locally.
>
> To explain:
>
> \textdir TRT
>
> and
>
> \pardir TRT
>
> locally switch the text and paragraph directions respectively, but not 
> the footnote markers and rule. This is correct behavior of course. But 
> I have an article that includes a long right-to-left extract with 
> footnotes, and those footnotes need to be RL in the sense described 
> above (numeral + rule). Is there any way to add a parameter option to 
> \setupfoonotes which, between---say, a \start-\stop---that can locally 
> switch the location of the numeral and marker to RL?
>
> Please help: I'm supposed to send this thing to the printer next week:-))

i need a small example file for this 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: more footnotes:-)

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:10:26 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>> Does the latest fpTeX carry dvipdfmx (r u still using fpTeX)? I must 
>> confess I'm still using odvips-ps2pdf for all of my output...
>>
> i think that fptex always had dvipdfmx (at least mine had -) Hans

Well, I only have dvipdfm, which works for Aleph/Omega but has some 
quirks...

I downloaded the latest fpTeX and will install it after some 
mission-critical stuff is out the door.

Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: more footnotes:-)

[Hans Hagen]

ishamid wrote:

>[please forward to list]
>  
>
>>===== Original Message From Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> =====
>>% program=aleph output=dvipdfmx
>>
>>% the next texexec will automatically generate pdf which is handy for
>>scit eusers -)
>>
>>\setupcolors[state=start]
>>
>>\starttext
>>    
>>
>
>Ok, here is a modified test file. The headers on pages 1 and 2 should be the 
>same throughout the entire document. Of course, when I make the temporary 
>global direction switch, the location of the headers get switched too. My 
>problem is that I have not been able to create a combination of \setupheaders 
>and \setuppagenumbering so that I can adjust the headers during the temporary 
>direction switch so that it appears that the header locations remain constant:
>  
>
... 

Last night I played a bit with aleph. 

One of the things that we need to keep in mind with omega is that the fact that it can typeset in multiple directions does not mean that this automatically works out well when turned on. Layout issues as well as language specific issues are up to macro packages. Omega is not a multi language or multi directional typesetting system by itself, but can be used to build one. 

Now, before we start hacking around, and thereby mess up context, we need to figure out a way to deal with these issues, so the main question is how directional typesetting is related to document design. 

- directions change per paragraph, rest of doc unchanged
- directions change per document, all components are influenced
- directions change per document, some components are influenced 
- etc 

so, what should happen with 

- page ornaments (headers, footers etc): locations and content 
- graphics: placements and content and captions 
- tables: structure and content 
- mp graphic: text and graphics 
- main text: indentation, skips, text, ... 

Of course one can say that we need to have all possibilities, but i tend to stick to those that make sense. Are there any resources on for instance right-left book design/typography? 
 
I don't know how many users are interested in these matters; maybe we should discuss this off list

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: more footnotes:-)

[Hans Hagen]

ishamid wrote:

>>% program=aleph output=dvipdfmx
>>
>>% the next texexec will automatically generate pdf which is handy for
>>scit eusers -)
>>    
>>
>
>Does the latest fpTeX carry dvipdfmx (r u still using fpTeX)? I must confess 
>I'm still using odvips-ps2pdf for all of my output...
>  
>
i think that fptex always had dvipdfmx (at least mine had -) 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

RE: more footnotes:-)

[ishamid]

>% program=aleph output=dvipdfmx
>
>% the next texexec will automatically generate pdf which is handy for
>scit eusers -)

Does the latest fpTeX carry dvipdfmx (r u still using fpTeX)? I must confess 
I'm still using odvips-ps2pdf for all of my output...

Best
Idris

Re: more footnotes:-)

[Hans Hagen]

ishamid wrote:

>Dear partners in crime,
>  
>
% program=aleph output=dvipdfmx

% the next texexec will automatically generate pdf which is handy for 
scit eusers -)

\setupcolors[state=start]

\starttext

\pagedir TRT
\bodydir TRT
\pardir  TRT
\textdir TRT
\mathdir TRT

test {\red test} test\footnote{oeps}

\framed{oeps}

\page

\appendtoks
  \pardir  TLT
  \textdir TLT
  \mathdir TLT
\to \everypagebody

\appendtoks
  \pardir  TLT
  \textdir TLT
  \mathdir TLT
\to \everyforgetall

test {\red test} test\footnote{oeps}

\framed{oeps}

\stoptext

so what we need is a decent model for directions

- text
- graphics
- math
- footnotes
- ...?

any ideas on what kind of control is needed?

>I have come across a situation where, in a left-to-right document, I need to 
>make the footnotes operate right to left: that is, the footnote numeral and 
>rule should be on the right side of the page. Now when using the global 
>direction changes that eomega/Gamma offers, this is trivial for a global 
>right-to-left document (\pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT are the global 
>settings), but in a globally left-to-right document I have not been able to 
>get this to work locally.
>
>To explain:
>
>\textdir TRT
>
>and
>
>\pardir TRT
>
>locally switch the text and paragraph directions respectively, but not the 
>footnote markers and rule. This is correct behavior of course. But I have an 
>article that includes a long right-to-left extract with footnotes, and those 
>footnotes need to be RL in the sense described above (numeral + rule). Is 
>there any way to add a parameter option to \setupfoonotes which, 
>between---say, a \start-\stop---that can locally switch the location of the 
>numeral and marker to RL?
>
>Please help: I'm supposed to send this thing to the printer next week:-))
>
>Best
>Idris
>
>PS \pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT don't seem to help this proble when applied 
>in a local context.
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>  
>


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

more footnotes:-)

[ishamid]

Dear partners in crime,

I have come across a situation where, in a left-to-right document, I need to 
make the footnotes operate right to left: that is, the footnote numeral and 
rule should be on the right side of the page. Now when using the global 
direction changes that eomega/Gamma offers, this is trivial for a global 
right-to-left document (\pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT are the global 
settings), but in a globally left-to-right document I have not been able to 
get this to work locally.

To explain:

\textdir TRT

and

\pardir TRT

locally switch the text and paragraph directions respectively, but not the 
footnote markers and rule. This is correct behavior of course. But I have an 
article that includes a long right-to-left extract with footnotes, and those 
footnotes need to be RL in the sense described above (numeral + rule). Is 
there any way to add a parameter option to \setupfoonotes which, 
between---say, a \start-\stop---that can locally switch the location of the 
numeral and marker to RL?

Please help: I'm supposed to send this thing to the printer next week:-))

Best
Idris

PS \pagedir TRT and \bodydir TRT don't seem to help this proble when applied 
in a local context.