* Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
@ 2004-08-03 5:05 Paulo Ney de Souza
2004-08-03 6:40 ` Patrick Gundlach
2004-08-03 9:56 ` Nikolai Weibull
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paulo Ney de Souza @ 2004-08-03 5:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
Everyone learns a language by example, if you try to teach one you
will see, even Patrick, when he was a baby learned his first language
by example (real language), it is only natural, it is only human. To
argue the contrary is just lack of experience in teaching.
Paulo Ney
>From ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Aug 2 20:05:20 2004
>From: skhilji@tampabay.rr.com
>Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
>To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
>
>Adding to this thread (I don't mean a reply to Paulo, but rather a reply to what Hans was saying earlier)...The problem with "normal users" cooking up new styles is the lack of artistic abilities in some people (like me). One can, obviously go thru the manual cover the cover, but if one does not have creative thinking, then creating professional looking styles would be hard. That is why, users like me really do not care if our documents look like everybody else's (just as long as they look professional).
>
>Its kind of like learning Photoshop and knowing what each toolbar button does....but not knowing how to mix all the available tools create a professional looking graphic.
>
>And of course, once we learn the tool, then making small changes here and there to make it look slightly different is no big deal.
>
>Salman
>
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
2004-08-03 5:05 Best source of ConTeXt documentation? Paulo Ney de Souza
@ 2004-08-03 6:40 ` Patrick Gundlach
2004-08-03 9:56 ` Nikolai Weibull
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2004-08-03 6:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello Paulo,
> Everyone learns a language by example, if you try to teach one you
> will see, even Patrick, when he was a baby learned his first language
> by example (real language), it is only natural, it is only human. To
> argue the contrary is just lack of experience in teaching.
Right, but what do you want to say? Typography and design is not a
matter of learning a language.
Patrick
--
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net
List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
2004-08-03 5:05 Best source of ConTeXt documentation? Paulo Ney de Souza
2004-08-03 6:40 ` Patrick Gundlach
@ 2004-08-03 9:56 ` Nikolai Weibull
2004-08-03 10:22 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Nikolai Weibull @ 2004-08-03 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
* Paulo Ney de Souza <desouza@Math.Berkeley.EDU> [Aug 03, 2004 11:21]:
> Everyone learns a language by example...
What you should really be doing is asking specific questions to problems
you're having with ConTeXt on this list. I have gotten almost all my
questions answered by now.
nikolai
--
::: name: Nikolai Weibull :: aliases: pcp / lone-star / aka :::
::: born: Chicago, IL USA :: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden :::
::: page: www.pcppopper.org :: fun atm: gf,lps,ruby,lisp,war3 :::
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
2004-08-03 9:56 ` Nikolai Weibull
@ 2004-08-03 10:22 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2004-08-03 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
Nikolai Weibull wrote:
>* Paulo Ney de Souza <desouza@Math.Berkeley.EDU> [Aug 03, 2004 11:21]:
>
>
>>Everyone learns a language by example...
>>
>>
>
>What you should really be doing is asking specific questions to problems
>you're having with ConTeXt on this list. I have gotten almost all my
>questions answered by now.
>
>
... and after that write MyWays, or add info to the wiki or write an article for tugboat or the maps or dtk or ...
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
@ 2004-08-03 15:13 Paulo Ney de Souza
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paulo Ney de Souza @ 2004-08-03 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
Patrick,
Maybe we should move this discussion off the list to not bother others
that may not be so interested in it.
What I am trying to say (answering your question) is that learning by
example is natural to human behaviour and extremely efficient. If you
attend any of my classes here in Berkeley you will see examples from
begining to the end, no matter what the subject is: math or programming.
Even with learned programmers, examples do work well, I took, for example
(no pun intended) an MSDN CD for C++ I have here by my side, 80% os the
space in the disk is taken by examples, the rest is shared between the
software, SDK, and manuals ...
You promptly assumed that the guy wanted to copy the examples at hand.
I don't think that this is right! He may indeed end up copying it, but
you can't assume it.
Paulo Ney
>From ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Aug 2 23:40:12 2004
>From: "Patrick Gundlach" <patrick@gundla.ch>
>To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
>Subject: [NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
>
>Hello Paulo,
>
>> Everyone learns a language by example, if you try to teach one you
>> will see, even Patrick, when he was a baby learned his first language
>> by example (real language), it is only natural, it is only human. To
>> argue the contrary is just lack of experience in teaching.
>
>Right, but what do you want to say? Typography and design is not a
>matter of learning a language.
>
>Patrick
>--
>ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
>texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net
>List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
@ 2004-08-02 23:13 Paulo Ney de Souza
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paulo Ney de Souza @ 2004-08-02 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
>From ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Aug 2 08:46:53 2004
>From: "Patrick Gundlach" <patrick@gundla.ch>
>To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
>Subject: [NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
>
>Oh come on, this is completely crap. The people at PRAGMA (i.e. Hans)
>share ConTeXt, wich is the holy grail that PRAGMA is based on
>(besides the knowledge). It is such a generous gift to the community.
>Please think about if you write stuff like that.
I realize better that you do Hans contibutions to the Open Source community
and I never complained about the sharing of ConTeXt, which is indeed the
best typesetting system I have seen. You are taking my comment into a
completely different context, pun not intended!
>You are right, that not all (only few) manuals are available in .tex
>format. See pdftex manual and the magazines. Putting source
>code online needs time, a lot of time. Source code needs to get
>documented. And I don't know Hans very well, but I'd guess that his
>day only has 24h.
>
>There are already some styles in the ConTeXt wiki. And there are
>styles that come with the distribution.
The discussion is not about styles, it is about examples and how-to.
>Why reverse-engineer? Just cook up the style you want. If you have
>questions doing this, ask on the ConTeXt list. If you are ready, put
>the style onto the Wiki. The styles at pragma are very good, but
>definitely not the only way to go. Making a good style is not
>copy/paste. It is a matter of experience. Experience is something you
>have to gain yourself.
We are not talking about experience and or copy/paste, if you are assuming
that I don't have the experience or that the guy that posted the initial
message wants to copy and paste, again you are on the wrong track.
>And yes, it is time for us to put examples online. But the ConTeXt
>community is still rather small. So there won't be many results in a
>short time.
I certainly will welcome the day we have a minimal how-to posted in there.
>You can do the first step. Go to the wiki, edit a page that states
>your questions regarding style development. Put a table of contents
>or something similar there, which steps you would like to see, which
>things you would like to have explained and so on. After that "we"
>(the more experienced ConTeXt users) can fill in the gaps. And
>finally we all have a small manual on style design. This is much
>better than being so aggressive on the unwillingness to share source.
>
>Patrick
I'll give it a try, the wiki is certainly the way to go ...
Paulo Ney
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