From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/15930 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:30:35 +0200 Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Message-ID: <41109EAB.70000@wxs.nl> References: <4.3.1.2.20040802014237.00b3b228@cits1.stanford.edu> <4.3.1.2.20040802014237.00b3b228@cits1.stanford.edu> <4.3.1.2.20040803112545.01646f78@cits1.stanford.edu> <41100E45.9030302@wxs.nl> <20040803155240.J15469@droplet.stanford.edu> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1091608260 30658 80.91.224.253 (4 Aug 2004 08:31:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:31:00 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Aug 04 10:30:47 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BsHAd-0000k9-00 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:30:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBC712771; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:43 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ronja.vet.uu.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 30098-07; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A4A1276B; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19981276B for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ronja.vet.uu.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 30149-05 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mailrelay02.solcon.nl (unknown [212.45.32.200]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBF1126F8 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:37 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from server-1.pragma-net.nl (dsl-212-84-128-085.solcon.nl [212.84.128.85]) by mailrelay02.solcon.nl (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i748UZhU015599 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 +0200 Original-Received: by server-1.pragma-net.nl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 68DA31A95A; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:36 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [10.100.1.191] (unknown [10.100.1.191]) by server-1.pragma-net.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9F61A7A4 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:30:35 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Original-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users In-Reply-To: <20040803155240.J15469@droplet.stanford.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75, clamav-milter version 0.75 on mailrelay02 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:15930 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:15930 Hi Brooks, >Then, a couple of lines after that, there's the second definition for >\frac, which is the one that needed patching. This one, unlike the >first definition, is wrapped in \mathematics so that it can work outside >math mode. > >So I'm wondering why only \frac has this second definition that allows >it to work outside of math mode. I would think that things should be >consistent -- either that all of the definitions in the first list >should be changed to use \mathematics, or that \frac should be returned >to the simpler version -- so that \tfrac is still simply "\frac typeset >in text mode" as one would expect it to be. > > this has a historical reason; it was added because latex users expect \frac to be there and to work in text mode as well; >Even if they're all left in the current form, I'd think that the unused >definition of \frac in the first list should be removed. > > well, just consider it not to be there; it should definitely not be mentioned in manuals -) >My argument for simplifying \frac to take the \mathematics out of it is >that it is a math-mode construct that typesets its arguments in math >mode, and allowing it to be used outside of math mode encourages sloppy >TeXing. It also hides the point of transition to math mode, meaning >that x and \frac{1}{x} will typeset x differently, which strikes me as >confusing. I recognize that this is a very debatable position, though, >and that there are at the very least arguments for backwards >compatiblity that contradict it. > > if i remember right (maybe tobias burnus remembers more) it was mainly meant to be used in section titles; in such cases, when one sets a font explicitly, math is often not set up accordingly and frac permits one to do at least fractions Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------