typescripts and variants

typescripts and variants

[denis.maier]

Hi
 In my current project I need to use different variants if the Noto Serif font (Regular, Medium, Semi Condensed Bold, Regular ExtraBold.)
Is my understanding of typescripts correct that I cannot have bold and extrabold in the same typescript? And that I need a typescript for regular and one for the semicondensed variants?

Denis
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Re: typescripts and variants

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 23.06.2021 um 00:17 schrieb denis.maier@unibe.ch:
> 
> Hi
> In my current project I need to use different variants if the Noto Serif font (Regular, Medium, Semi Condensed Bold, Regular ExtraBold.)
> Is my understanding of typescripts correct that I cannot have bold and extrabold in the same typescript? And that I need a typescript for regular and one for the semicondensed variants?

You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.

Hraban
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Re: typescripts and variants

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 23.06.2021 um 08:43 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net>:
> 
> 
>> Am 23.06.2021 um 00:17 schrieb denis.maier@unibe.ch:
>> 
>> Hi
>> In my current project I need to use different variants if the Noto Serif font (Regular, Medium, Semi Condensed Bold, Regular ExtraBold.)
>> Is my understanding of typescripts correct that I cannot have bold and extrabold in the same typescript? And that I need a typescript for regular and one for the semicondensed variants?
> 
> You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.

... or use roman styles, if you don’t need roman.

Hraban
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Re: typescripts and variants

[denis.maier]

Hi,

> > Am 23.06.2021 um 08:43 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net>:
> >
> >
> >> Am 23.06.2021 um 00:17 schrieb denis.maier@unibe.ch:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >> In my current project I need to use different variants if the Noto
> >> Serif font (Regular, Medium, Semi Condensed Bold, Regular ExtraBold.) Is
> my understanding of typescripts correct that I cannot have bold and extrabold
> in the same typescript? And that I need a typescript for regular and one for the
> semicondensed variants?
> >
> > You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to
> six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just
> “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.
> 
> ... or use roman styles, if you don’t need roman.

Thanks for your help. 
After playing a bit more with the different variants for loading fonts it looks like I don't even need to use typescripts. \definefontfamily works just as good:

\definefontfamily[mainface][rm][Noto Serif]
\definefontfamily[mainface-semicond][rm][Noto Serif]
  [tf=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensed.ttf,
  it=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedItalic.ttf,
  bf=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedBold.ttf,
  bi=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedBoldItalic.ttf]

But, do typescripts have any advantages over that approach?

Then, for fonts used only in specific contexts, you can also do something like
 
\definefont [TitleFont] [notoserifsemicondensedextrabold]
and use that with \TitleFont
But you will then also need \TitleMonoFont etc, whereas it seems easier to keep things consistent with \definefontfamily...

One thing I'm wondering about: Would it be possible to add a easy mechanism to switch to different variants of a font, say, to use the SemiCondensed variant or the ExtraCondensed or so? (Or does that already exist?)
And, what about adding more styles so that you could have Light, Medium, SemiBold, Bold, ExtraBold, Black etc. all defined in a single fontfamily? If that was available each font family would then define all the styles for one variant (SemiCondensed, ExtraCondensed, Condensed, each with 18 styles!)

My knowledge of fonts is quite limited so please excuse if that doesn't make sense or if I'm missing something obvious to others.

Best,
Denis

> 
> Hraban
> ________________________________________________________________
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Re: typescripts and variants

[Wolfgang Schuster]

denis.maier@unibe.ch schrieb am 23.06.2021 um 11:05:
> Hi,
>
>>> Am 23.06.2021 um 08:43 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net>:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Am 23.06.2021 um 00:17 schrieb denis.maier@unibe.ch:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>> In my current project I need to use different variants if the Noto
>>>> Serif font (Regular, Medium, Semi Condensed Bold, Regular ExtraBold.) Is
>> my understanding of typescripts correct that I cannot have bold and extrabold
>> in the same typescript? And that I need a typescript for regular and one for the
>> semicondensed variants?
>>> You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to
>> six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just
>> “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.
>>
>> ... or use roman styles, if you don’t need roman.
> Thanks for your help.
> After playing a bit more with the different variants for loading fonts it looks like I don't even need to use typescripts. \definefontfamily works just as good:
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][rm][Noto Serif]
> \definefontfamily[mainface-semicond][rm][Noto Serif]
>    [tf=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensed.ttf,
>    it=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedItalic.ttf,
>    bf=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedBold.ttf,
>    bi=file:NotoSerif-SemiCondensedBoldItalic.ttf]
>
> But, do typescripts have any advantages over that approach?

Even when you use \definefontfamily the internal font handling relies on 
the typescripts.

The advantage of hand written (or generated) typescripts is better 
reliability, most of the time you pass just a name to \definefontfamily 
and some font is chosen for each style but this can fail because all 
depends on the information in the font files. When you use a typescript 
each alternative is associated with a certain font file and almost no 
guess work is required.

> Then, for fonts used only in specific contexts, you can also do something like
>   
> \definefont [TitleFont] [notoserifsemicondensedextrabold]
> and use that with \TitleFont
> But you will then also need \TitleMonoFont etc, whereas it seems easier to keep things consistent with \definefontfamily...
>
> One thing I'm wondering about: Would it be possible to add a easy mechanism to switch to different variants of a font, say, to use the SemiCondensed variant or the ExtraCondensed or so? (Or does that already exist?)
> And, what about adding more styles so that you could have Light, Medium, SemiBold, Bold, ExtraBold, Black etc. all defined in a single fontfamily? If that was available each font family would then define all the styles for one variant (SemiCondensed, ExtraCondensed, Condensed, each with 18 styles!)

You can add more alternatives (\it, \bf ...) to the font mechanism but 
this requires additional settings (\definebodyfont ...) to get it 
working. A limiting factor is that you have to stick to two-letter names 
for each alternative and the easier solution is to create additional 
typefaces.

Wolfgang

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Re: typescripts and variants

[Bruce Horrocks]

> On 23 Jun 2021, at 07:43, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> 
> You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.

If we're restricted to six styles why does this Wiki page show seven?

<https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Simple_Typescript_Example>

Not meant as a criticism - just a naive question from someone who is puzzled.
—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK

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Re: typescripts and variants

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 23.06.2021 um 21:42 schrieb Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>:
> 
> 
>> On 23 Jun 2021, at 07:43, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
>> 
>> You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.
> 
> If we're restricted to six styles why does this Wiki page show seven?
> 
> <https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Simple_Typescript_Example>
> 
> Not meant as a criticism - just a naive question from someone who is puzzled.

Yes, you could also abuse \sc for another style.

Small caps are a bit special though, nowadays they’re often contained in fonts and you address them via OpenType features.

Hraban
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Re: typescripts and variants

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/23/2021 10:32 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> 
>> Am 23.06.2021 um 21:42 schrieb Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>:
>>
>>
>>> On 23 Jun 2021, at 07:43, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> You can combine whatever you like in one typescript, but you’re restricted to six styles (regular, italic, slanted, bold, bold italic, bold slanted). You can just “abuse” the italic or slanted styles for your other weights.
>>
>> If we're restricted to six styles why does this Wiki page show seven?

in principle one can define as many new ones as one wants ... it doesn't 
happen in practice

>> <https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Simple_Typescript_Example>
>>
>> Not meant as a criticism - just a naive question from someone who is puzzled.
> 
> Yes, you could also abuse \sc for another style.
> 
> Small caps are a bit special though, nowadays they’re often contained in fonts and you address them via OpenType features.
> 
> Hraban
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Re: typescripts and variants

[BPJ]

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> > And, what about adding more styles so that you could have Light, Medium,
> SemiBold, Bold, ExtraBold, Black etc. all defined in a single fontfamily?
> If that was available each font family would then define all the styles for
> one variant (SemiCondensed, ExtraCondensed, Condensed, each with 18 styles!)
>
> You can add more alternatives (\it, \bf ...) to the font mechanism but
> this requires additional settings (\definebodyfont ...) to get it
> working. A limiting factor is that you have to stick to two-letter names
> for each alternative


If you don't mind a question from a lapsed user: what is the reason for
this restriction? It seems arbitrary but I have a feeling it's some
vanilla-TeX thing which I have forgotten.


and the easier solution is to create additional
> typefaces.
>

Also most likely sanity preserving!


> Wolfgang
>
>
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> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
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> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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