New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Michal Kvasnicka]

Dear friends,

I apologize that I have recently sent message to this list only when 
I've got some problems. Nontheless I need to keep this tradition. :-( I 
tried to install the newest ConTeXt over the TexLive 9/2003. All was 
perfect except the Czech interface. I've got a strange error. What 
should I do to improve it?

My system is this:
* SuSE Linux 9.1
* TeX Live + CTAN 9/2003
* pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.11a-2.1 (Web2C 7.5.2)
* ConTeXt  ver: 2004.12.06  fmt: 2005.1.11  int: english  mes: english
* TeXExec 5.2.3 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2004

The excerpt from the log file is this:
language       : patterns for cz not loaded
language       : patterns for hr not loaded
language       : patterns for pl not loaded
language       : patterns for sk not loaded
encoding       : coding fde is loaded
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/context/base/enco-fde.tex <unprotect 3>
language       : language specific options [default-de] seamless appended
language       : language specific options [default-de] seamless appended
language       : language specific options [default-de] seamless appended
encoding       : coding pdfdoc
language       : language specific options [pdfdoc-de] seamless appended
encoding       : coding ec
language       : language specific options [ec-de] seamless appended
encoding       : coding texnansi
language       : language specific options [texnansi-de] seamless appended
<protect 3>))
language       : patterns en for en loaded (n=1)
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex)
language       : no hyphenations en for en (n=1)
language       : patterns de for de loaded (n=2)
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/dehyphn.tex
New German Hyphenation Patterns `dehyphn' Rev.31 <2001-05-07> (WaS))
language       : no hyphenations de for de (n=2)
encoding       : coding il2
language       : patterns sk for sk loaded (n=3)
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/skhyph.tex
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/t1code.tex Font encoding set to Cork.)
The \^, \`, \', \v, \" and \r expands to characters by Cork.
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/skhyphen.tex))
language       : no hyphenations sk for sk (n=3)
encoding       : coding ec
language       : patterns sk for sk loaded (n=3)
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/skhyph.tex
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/t1code.tex Font encoding set to Cork.)
The \^, \`, \', \v, \" and \r expands to characters by Cork.
(/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/skhyphen.tex
! Duplicate pattern.
l.29 a1

I am quite desperate so I will be thankfull for any hint.
Your sincerelly
Michal Kvasnicka

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Hans Hagen]

Michal Kvasnicka wrote:

> I apologize that I have recently sent message to this list only when 
> I've got some problems. Nontheless I need to keep this tradition. :-( I 
> tried to install the newest ConTeXt over the TexLive 9/2003. All was 
> perfect except the Czech interface. I've got a strange error. What 
> should I do to improve it?
> 
> My system is this:
> * SuSE Linux 9.1
> * TeX Live + CTAN 9/2003
> * pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.11a-2.1 (Web2C 7.5.2)
> * ConTeXt  ver: 2004.12.06  fmt: 2005.1.11  int: english  mes: english
> (/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/skhyph.tex
> (/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/t1code.tex Font encoding set to Cork.)

first of all, fetch a context zip from our website

(or grab the minimal context distribution for linux, you can use that one 
alongside other trees if needed)

> The \^, \`, \', \v, \" and \r expands to characters by Cork.
> (/usr/TeX/texmf/tex/csplain/skhyphen.tex
> ! Duplicate pattern.
> l.29 a1
> 
> I am quite desperate so I will be thankfull for any hint.

the integration of czech/slovak patterns in tex live is a mess, and among the 
reasons for problems you will find:

- files not in the right places (generic hyphen paths)
- using non standard names (*hyphen where oithers use *hyph)
- combined with a latex depency (in the *hyph ones)

in spite of what you may think, tex distributions are not upward compatible, and 
  fonts and patterns are among the troublemakers.

In your case: locate [cont-usr or so] where context tries to load czhyph and 
replace that by czhyphen; same for sk* (so, contrary to other languages, 
czech/slovak had the pattersn in the *hyphen files); in your current setup 
something "t1code.tex" is loaded and i don't even want to think about what 
interference can come from that -)

Hans



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Michal Kvasnicka]

Many thanks for your answer. I will try to follow your advices.

As for TeX distributions, I'm getting desperate. I had to switch to 
TeXLive from teTeX, because 1) it didn't work with tha last version of 
ConTeXt I tried to install, and 2) in SuSE 9.1 mktexlsr doesn't work in 
the teTeX. Now I can see that the TeXLive is not better at all. 
Moreover, I don't understand why there are three different texmf 
directories. :-( What distribution of TeX should I use? Does your 
minimal TeX distribution support plain/LaTeX (for those rare cases I 
need to use them)? Well, I will see at the night. :-)

Many thanks once more. Your thankful
Michal Kvasnicka

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Hans Hagen]

Michal Kvasnicka wrote:
> Many thanks for your answer. I will try to follow your advices.
> 
> As for TeX distributions, I'm getting desperate. I had to switch to 
> TeXLive from teTeX, because 1) it didn't work with tha last version of 
> ConTeXt I tried to install, and 2) in SuSE 9.1 mktexlsr doesn't work in 
> the teTeX. Now I can see that the TeXLive is not better at all. 
> Moreover, I don't understand why there are three different texmf 
> directories. :-( What distribution of TeX should I use? Does your 
> minimal TeX distribution support plain/LaTeX (for those rare cases I 
> need to use them)? Well, I will see at the night. :-)

in that case, just download the minimal context distribution for linux, you can 
rsync that one of needed (some 25 meg zip initially)

in there, there is "setuptex", run that one (with the tex root as arg) and make 
the formats

  texexec --make --all

will give you all languages, including czech

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[David Antos]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:41:14PM +0100, Hans Hagen wrote:
> the integration of czech/slovak patterns in tex live is a mess, and among 
> the reasons for problems you will find:
> 
> - files not in the right places (generic hyphen paths)
> - using non standard names (*hyphen where oithers use *hyph)
> - combined with a latex depency (in the *hyph ones)
> 
> in spite of what you may think, tex distributions are not upward 
> compatible, and fonts and patterns are among the troublemakers.
> 
> In your case: locate [cont-usr or so] where context tries to load czhyph 
> and replace that by czhyphen; same for sk* (so, contrary to other 
> languages, czech/slovak had the pattersn in the *hyphen files); in your 
> current setup something "t1code.tex" is loaded and i don't even want to 
> think about what interference can come from that -)

Hello,

just a comment. In TeXlive2003, czhyph.tex contains first

\ifx\addlanguage\undefined
  \errmessage{This file can be used only in babelised formats!}
\fi

to test if the format is babelised. If the test succeeds it just reads
czhyphen.tex. I asked Petr Olsak either to remove this stupid test from
that file or to add a test for ConTeXt. We prepared a hack that I tried
to propagate into TeXlive, but after asking several times on texlive
mailing list I gave up. After reading a discussion on LaTeX Czech
support (and its backwards compatibility) in the CSTUG mailing list, I
like ConTeXt way of multilanguage support even more :-)

The path of least resistence is probably to make cont-usr.tex to point
directly to the actual position of czhyphen.tex directly :-(, sigh...

Yours,
D.A.

-- 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Michal Kvasnicka]

David Antos wrote:

>just a comment. In TeXlive2003, czhyph.tex contains first
>
>\ifx\addlanguage\undefined
>  \errmessage{This file can be used only in babelised formats!}
>\fi
>  
>
Well, I forgot to say that I commented these lines. :-) As for the rest, 
I think ConTeXt is as superior to LaTeX as an herd of buldozers is to a 
child trowel in digging. :-)

Many thanks to you both for your help.
M.K.

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface installation problem

[Hans Hagen]

David Antos wrote:

> The path of least resistence is probably to make cont-usr.tex to point
> directly to the actual position of czhyphen.tex directly :-(, sigh...

indeed, sigh ...

a problem is that users keep their own cont-usr file and changes in names like 
that are then up to the user; i could add this to the kernel

\definefilesynonym [czhyph.pat]   [czhyphen.tex] % safeguard
\definefilesynonym [skhyph.pat]   [skhyphen.tex] % safeguard

but then we end up with all kind of fuzzy code

similar problems showed last year when the us hyphen filename was changed, (on 
some systems the alias file handled that, but who knows about that one)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface - apologize

[Michal Kvasnicka]

Good afternoon.

I have to apologize for making a mess here. The problem I have refered 
the last week was not caused by ConTeXt, nor by TeXLive (at least not 
directly), but by my own stupidness.  When I deleted the old ConTeXt 
from the TeXLive directory tree, I didn't deleted old file cont-usr.tex 
which was placed in some absurd distant directory I had not expected. So 
I apologize. But anyway, your hints helped me to find this problem---I 
would be otherwise probably able to find it out.

BTW, can someone explain me what is the logic behind the TeXLive 
directory tree? Why isn't so simple as the old teTeX was? Why some 
configuraton files are there two or three times, sometimes with 
different content? :-( Is somewhere an explanation of these wonders? :-(

With many greetings and once more apologizing your
Michal Kvasnicka

Re: New ConTeXt cz interface - apologize

[h h extern]

Michal Kvasnicka wrote:

> BTW, can someone explain me what is the logic behind the TeXLive 
> directory tree? Why isn't so simple as the old teTeX was? Why some 
> configuraton files are there two or three times, sometimes with 
> different content? :-( Is somewhere an explanation of these wonders? :-(

Hard to explain ... it's partly related to

- tds: formal tex directory structure
- tetex: basis for tex live, but not always following tds
- texlive: being meant for all platforms

all those trees are plagued by history,

recently there have been fundamental changes, like the move of enc / map / 
pdftex / etex / scripts and other subpath, while others were not reorganized 
due to whatever historic reason [dvips vs pdftex vs generic], or not implemented 
because it was too difficult to implement [web2c engine subpath] or because the 
author was not willing to participate (czech stuff), or because programs were 
changed (no cfg file pdftex, pdftex main engine) for etc etc;

other reason are: different platforms installers demand different structure 
(either or no symlinks, either or not uninstall, etc) and all those gpl licences 
demand source code to be present (depending on what is considered to besource 
code) which may lead to things being present multiple times; of course also 
files change place with no real reason, like some fonts, that are present now, 
absent then, present again some time, etc

[it sounds awful, but it's kind of standard and unavoidable for all things big 
and complex, installing windows, linux, or whatever, no matter how hard one 
tries, there will always be some mess, it just comes with the complexity]

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------