lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Gerben Wierda]

Would someone be able to take lettrine.sty as an example and produce a 
version that works with ConTeXt (and plain TeX)?

Thanks,

G

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hoi Gerben,

Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that
\DroppedCaps does not do. Please do not assume that context users
have any specific knowledge of what latex packages do.

Gerben Wierda wrote:
> Would someone be able to take lettrine.sty as an example and produce a 
> version that works with ConTeXt (and plain TeX)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> G
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Peter Münster]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that
> \DroppedCaps does not do.

Hello Taco,
could you please give an example how to do the same with \DroppedCaps, what
is shown on page 30 of http://pmrb.free.fr/work/cours/latex-intro.pdf ?
Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

Ah ok, I see. No you cannot do that with DroppedCaps, as is.

Will post something later ...

Taco

Peter Münster wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> 
>>Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that
>>\DroppedCaps does not do.
> 
> 
> Hello Taco,
> could you please give an example how to do the same with \DroppedCaps, what
> is shown on page 30 of http://pmrb.free.fr/work/cours/latex-intro.pdf ?
> Peter
> 

RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

Dear listmembers,

I am not quite yet a ConTeXt user (struggling with the installation),
but having a background as typographer, graphic designer, and printer, I
feel that the lettrine.sty package could serve very well as a model for
something similar in ConTeXt. 

At any rate, in order to produce high quality intitials, a ConTeXt
equivalent should not have any less parameters than lettrine.sty.


To re-cap the parameters in lettrine.sty:

==============================================================

- lines=<integer> sets how many lines the dropped capital will occupy
(default=2);

- lhang=<decimal> (0 < lhang =< 1) sets how much of the dropped
capital’s width should hang into the margin (default=0);

- loversize=<decimal> (-1 < loversize =< 1) enlarges the dropped
capital’s height: with loversize=0.1 its height is enlarged by 10% so
that it raises above the top paragraph’s line (default=0);

- lraise=<decimal> does not affect the dropped capital’s height, but
moves it up (if positive), down (if negative); useful with capitals like
J or Q which have a positive depth, (default=0);

- findent=<dimen> (positive or negative) controls the horizontal gap
between the dropped capital and the indented block of text
(default=0pt);

- nindent=<dimen> shifts all indented lines, starting from the second
one, horizontally by <dimen> (this shift is relative to the first line,
default=0.5em);

- slope=<dimen> can be used with dropped capitals like A or V to add
<dimen> (positive or negative) to the indentation of each line starting
from the third one (no e
ect if lines=2, default=0pt);

- ante=<text> can be used to typeset <text> before the dropped capital
(typical use is for French guillemets starting the paragraph);

- image=<true> (new to version 1.6) will force \lettrine to replace the
letter normally used as dropped capital by an image in eps format
(latex) or in pdf, jpg, etc. format (pdflatex); this needs the graphicx
package to be loaded in the preamble of course.
\lettrine[image=true]{A}{n exemple} or just \lettrine[image]{A}{n
exemple} will load A.eps or A.pdf instead of letter A. This was
suggested by Bill Jetzer. Redefining \LettrineFont as \LettrineFontEPS
still works for compatibility but is deprecated.

==============================================================

Also, sometimes one wants to indent all indented lines to the same
position (instead of intenting the first line less) and this should
ideally be possible too. 

Plus setting a specific color for the initial, but that is handled by
ConTeXt's standard features (I guess).

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

> Ah ok, I see. No you cannot do that with DroppedCaps, as is.
> 
> Will post something later ...
> 
> Taco
> 
> Peter Münster wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that 
> >>\DroppedCaps does not do.
> > 
> > 
> > Hello Taco,
> > could you please give an example how to do the same with 
> \DroppedCaps, 
> > what is shown on page 30 of 
> > http://pmrb.free.fr/work/cours/latex-intro.pdf ? Peter

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Hans Hagen]

Mats Broberg wrote:

> I am not quite yet a ConTeXt user (struggling with the installation),
> but having a background as typographer, graphic designer, and printer, I
> feel that the lettrine.sty package could serve very well as a model for
> something similar in ConTeXt. 
 >
 > ...

basically you want to follow a shape; this is not that hard to implement so i 
can have a look at it; lettrines is then an instance of it

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 329 bytes --]

Hans Hagen wrote:
 >
> basically you want to follow a shape; this is not that hard to implement 
> so i can have a look at it; lettrines is then an instance of it

Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite
funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example.


Greetings, Taco




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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[VnPenguin]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:04:11 +0100, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> Hans Hagen wrote:
>  >
> > basically you want to follow a shape; this is not that hard to implement
> > so i can have a look at it; lettrines is then an instance of it
> 
> Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite
> funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example.
> 

Just tried 2 attached files and I see error:
...
system (E-TEX) : [line 2280] \ifcsname 
<protect 4> <protect 3>)
specials        : fdf loaded
<unprotect 3> <protect 3>)
specials        : fdf,tpd loaded
)
system          : macros of module lettri loaded
(./t-lettri.tex
! Illegal parameter number in definition of \LettrineFontEPS.
<to be read again> 
                   1
l.99 \def\LettrineFontEPS{#1
                            }{%
?

In the src t-lettri.tex  if I change

\def\LettrineFontEPS{#1}{%

to

\def\LettrineFontEPS#1{%

It works fine ;)

Cheers,
Q.

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

Sorrry about that, last-minute change :-)

VnPenguin wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:04:11 +0100, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> 
> In the src t-lettri.tex  if I change
> 
> \def\LettrineFontEPS{#1}{%
> 

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[David Wooten]

Hmm, this is great.
However, I can't seem to get it to accept an image (Image=true or 
Image=yes). Anyone else have some luck?

On Feb 25, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Sorrry about that, last-minute change :-)

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 593 bytes --]

David Wooten wrote:
> Hmm, this is great.
> However, I can't seem to get it to accept an image (Image=true or 
> Image=yes). Anyone else have some luck?

It couldn't work. Here is a new version, with fixed image support,
some cleanups in the code, and support for per-argument setup
functionality as provided by \LettrineOptionsFor{...} in LaTeX

The one thing I could not/did not solve is how to make ConTeXt shut
up about 'bodyfont 112.5pt is defined (can better be done global)'.

I think I've covered all of lettrine.sty now, but I may have
overlooked a bug or two ;-)

Greetings, Taco




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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Gerben Wierda]

On Feb 26, 2005, at 11:23, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> David Wooten wrote:
>> Hmm, this is great.
>> However, I can't seem to get it to accept an image (Image=true or 
>> Image=yes). Anyone else have some luck?
>
> It couldn't work. Here is a new version, with fixed image support,
> some cleanups in the code, and support for per-argument setup
> functionality as provided by \LettrineOptionsFor{...} in LaTeX
>
> The one thing I could not/did not solve is how to make ConTeXt shut
> up about 'bodyfont 112.5pt is defined (can better be done global)'.
>
> I think I've covered all of lettrine.sty now, but I may have
> overlooked a bug or two ;-)

Hans,

how do you handle additions like this in your ConTeXt distribution? 
Will they become part of it for instance?

G

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

Gerben Wierda wrote:
 >
> how do you handle additions like this in your ConTeXt distribution? Will 
> they become part of it for instance?

Hans usually asks authors whether they want the module to be part
of the distribution. Mostly, authors say yes, but not always.

This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should
be part of standard ConTeXt. <<I guess that means I should submit
it to CTAN>>

Taco

lack of hyphenation

[Ciro A. Soto]

The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
with
MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am
typesetting with context and not a single line had a
hyphenated word at the end.

So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set
any parameter to allow hyphenation? 
I do have
\tolerance=10000, because I don't like lines longer
than the rest, but I thought I could still get some
hyphenated words. Am I right?

thank you
Ciro

=====
==================
Ciro A. Soto
Author of
"The Guitar Maker. 
An Exploration of Wisdom, Design and Love." Pub. Date: Aug. 2005.

"All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a solution."

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Taco Hoekwater]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> 
> So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set
> any parameter to allow hyphenation? 
> I do have
> \tolerance=10000, because I don't like lines longer
> than the rest, but I thought I could still get some
> hyphenated words. Am I right?

Yes, you are right. Assuming you do not have very long lines
and a small body font, it is quite possible that you are a
victim of one of the recent hyphenation-file name confusions
that have been plagueing recent TeX distributions.

Try this: \showhyphens{hyphenation}

It should print

   Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 2--2
   [] \*10ptrmtf* hy-phen-ation

on your terminal. If it doesn't, ConTeXt refuses the hyphenate
English, possibly because the patterns were not loaded in the
format (in that case, updating your ConTeXt is the easiest
solution).

Good luck, Taco

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Ciro A. Soto]

Thank you Taco,
this is what I get. I got a *similar* line
to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok?
ciro

linux% tex
This is TeXk, Version 3.141592 (Web2C 7.5.3)
 \write18 enabled.
 %&-line parsing enabled.
**\showhyphens{hyphenation}
kpathsea: Running mktexfmt tex.fmt
running `tex -ini   -jobname=tex -progname=tex
tex.ini' ...
This is TeXk, Version 3.141592 (Web2C 7.5.3) (INITEX)
 \write18 enabled.
 %&-line parsing enabled.
(/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf-dist/tex/plain/config/tex.ini
(/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf-dist/tex/plain/base/plain.tex
Preloading the plain format: codes, registers,
parameters, fonts, more fonts,
macros, math definitions, output routines, hyphenation
(/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex))
)
Beginning to dump on file tex.fmt
 (format=tex 2005.2.26)
2014 strings of total length 28924
4990 memory locations dumped; current usage is
110&4877
926 multiletter control sequences
\font\nullfont=nullfont
\font\tenrm=cmr10
\font\preloaded=cmr9
\font\preloaded=cmr8
\font\sevenrm=cmr7
\font\preloaded=cmr6
\font\fiverm=cmr5
\font\teni=cmmi10
\font\preloaded=cmmi9
\font\preloaded=cmmi8
\font\seveni=cmmi7
\font\preloaded=cmmi6
\font\fivei=cmmi5
\font\tensy=cmsy10
\font\preloaded=cmsy9
\font\preloaded=cmsy8
\font\sevensy=cmsy7
\font\preloaded=cmsy6
\font\fivesy=cmsy5
\font\tenex=cmex10
\font\preloaded=cmss10
\font\preloaded=cmssq8
\font\preloaded=cmssi10
\font\preloaded=cmssqi8
\font\tenbf=cmbx10
\font\preloaded=cmbx9
\font\preloaded=cmbx8
\font\sevenbf=cmbx7
\font\preloaded=cmbx6
\font\fivebf=cmbx5
\font\tentt=cmtt10
\font\preloaded=cmtt9
\font\preloaded=cmtt8
\font\preloaded=cmsltt10
\font\tensl=cmsl10
\font\preloaded=cmsl9
\font\preloaded=cmsl8
\font\tenit=cmti10
\font\preloaded=cmti9
\font\preloaded=cmti8
\font\preloaded=cmti7
\font\preloaded=cmu10
\font\preloaded=cmmib10
\font\preloaded=cmbsy10
\font\preloaded=cmcsc10
\font\preloaded=cmssbx10
\font\preloaded=cmdunh10
\font\preloaded=cmr7 at 14.51799pt
\font\preloaded=cmtt10 at 14.4pt
\font\preloaded=cmssbx10 at 14.4pt
\font\preloaded=manfnt
14787 words of font info for 50 preloaded fonts
14 hyphenation exceptions
Hyphenation trie of length 6075 has 181 ops out of
35111
  181 for language 0
No pages of output.
Transcript written on tex.log.
fmtutil:
/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf-var/web2c/tex.fmt
installed.

Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) detected at line 0
[] \tenrm hy-phen-ation

\hbox(6.94444+1.94444)x16383.99998, glue set
9784.12628 []
*

4UP with no table of content - bug?

[Ciro A. Soto]

I have this 310-page book with a table of content
that is alsways fine when I use a single page layout.

When I switch to
\setuparranging [2UP,rotated,doublesided]
it also prints the table of content, however,
if I rerun the job for a second time using
the 2UP, the table of content disappears.

Is it a bug or do I need to do something special?

thank you
Ciro

Re: 4UP with no table of content - bug?

[h h extern]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> I have this 310-page book with a table of content
> that is alsways fine when I use a single page layout.
> 
> When I switch to
> \setuparranging [2UP,rotated,doublesided]
> it also prints the table of content, however,
> if I rerun the job for a second time using
> the 2UP, the table of content disappears.
> 
> Is it a bug or do I need to do something special?

arranged pages flush entries to the tui/tuo file in a different order and that 
messes up things.

try:

texexec --arrange .....


Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Taco Hoekwater]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> Thank you Taco,
> this is what I get. I got a *similar* line
> to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok?
> ciro

looks fine, so perhaps you have disabled hyphenation
by using something like \setuptolerance[verytolerant],
or they were truly unnecesary (it is possible)

Taco

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Taco,

>> this is what I get. I got a *similar* line
>> to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok?

> looks fine, 

are you sure that the hyphenation configuration is the same in plain
and ConTeXt? Perhaps it is a bit late for me, but I think that the
test has to be done within ConTeXt to make sure about the correct
hyphenation.

Patrick

PS: see you in France
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: lack of hyphenation

[Ciro A. Soto]

well, I did the test running texexec on a file
containing only this line:

\showhyphens{hyphenation}

and got:

TeXExec 5.2.4 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2005

            executable : pdfetex
                format : cont-en
             inputfile : 4test
                output : pdftex
             interface : en
          current mode : none
               TeX run : 1

This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.20a-2.2 (Web2C
7.5.3)
 \write18 enabled.
 %&-line parsing enabled.
 (/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf/web2c/natural.tcx)
output format initialized to DVI
entering extended mode
(./4test.tex

ConTeXt  ver: 2004.11.17  fmt: 2005.1.30  int: english
 mes: english

......

Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines
1--1
[] \*10ptrmtf* hyphenation
)


I suppose there is a problem then ...right?

c


--- Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch> wrote:

> Hello Taco,
> 
> >> this is what I get. I got a *similar* line
> >> to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok?
> 
> > looks fine, 
> 
> are you sure that the hyphenation configuration is
> the same in plain
> and ConTeXt? Perhaps it is a bit late for me, but I
> think that the
> test has to be done within ConTeXt to make sure
> about the correct
> hyphenation.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> PS: see you in France
> -- 
> ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> 

Re: Re: lack of hyphenation

[Taco Hoekwater]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> 
> I suppose there is a problem then ...right?

Yes, there is.
I'm sorry I missed that you were using plain earlier,  I must be getting 
too old for this stuff. ;-) Thanks Patrick!


This thread is (almost certainly) discussing the same problem:

http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20041228.225433.b0bd0faf.html

But the best advice is to upgrade your ConTeXt to the latest, but
you could also re-enact the fix in that thread.

Greetings, Taco

Re: lack of hyphenation

[h h extern]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> Try this: \showhyphens{hyphenation}
> 
> It should print
> 
>   Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 2--2
>   [] \*10ptrmtf* hy-phen-ation
> 
> on your terminal. If it doesn't, ConTeXt refuses the hyphenate
> English, possibly because the patterns were not loaded in the
> format (in that case, updating your ConTeXt is the easiest
> solution).

the idea behind the language file posted some time ago is that we can create a 
testbed;

[i can imagine that taco/patrick work out something for the mirror/wiki that 
unpacks the cont-tmf zip, tests format generation and missing things; kind of 
user download simulation]

also, karl berry (tug, tex live, everything tex) is willing to set up a tex live 
related testbed for testing if that distributions are shipped 'correct', so if 
you have test files ...

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

[language and hyphenation issues]

> [i can imagine that taco/patrick work out something for the
> mirror/wiki that unpacks the cont-tmf zip, tests format generation and
> missing things; kind of user download simulation]

Actually I am doing something like this for some time now: I install
ConTeXt for live.contextgarden.net automatically. I get a copy of that
transcript and check manually that everything is OK. I do this every
night when a new version is out.

I think that the files in tex/context/base are a good starting point
for a testbed. These should run OK and look fine.

Patrick

-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

RE: lack of hyphenation

[Mats Broberg]

Ciro,

>From a purely typographical point of view, a hyphenated word is always
better than excessive space between words in a line (which is more
discernable to the eye). 

However, depending on column width, the language the text is typeset in,
and the algorithm that is used for hyphenation & justification, some
texts can be typeset without very few hyphens. But if a text is typeset
without hyphenation - take a really good look at the word spacing.
Chances are, they are large. BTW, it's easier to see excessive
wordspacing if you hold the page upside down and squint with your eyes.

Ok, here's something for the spacing aficionados: Take a look at "The
art of spacing" by Bartels (Chicago, 1926). I have it at hand when I'm
writing this. Not one hyphen in the whole book, not one excessive
wordspace - and all last lines in paragraphs ending less than a one or
two ems from the right margin.

Beautiful, and probably mathematically impossible to achieve. If I don't
remember wrong, DEK writes about Bartels in one of his books and
suspects he rewrote the text while handsetting the lines. 

I would agree with that. 

Best regards,
Mats Broberg



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl 
> [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Ciro A. Soto
> Sent: den 26 februari 2005 18:08
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Subject: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
> 
> 
> The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
> lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
> with
> MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
> hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am
> typesetting with context and not a single line had a
> hyphenated word at the end.
> 
> So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set
> any parameter to allow hyphenation? 
> I do have
> \tolerance=10000, because I don't like lines longer
> than the rest, but I thought I could still get some
> hyphenated words. Am I right?
> 
> thank you
> Ciro
> 
> =====
> ==================
> Ciro A. Soto
> Author of
> "The Guitar Maker. 
> An Exploration of Wisdom, Design and Love." Pub. Date: Aug. 2005.
> 
> "All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a 
> solution." _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> 

Re: lack of hyphenation

[h h extern]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
> lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
> with
> MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of

but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)

> hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am
> typesetting with context and not a single line had a
> hyphenated word at the end.

what happens when you say:

\en \hyphenatedword{somethingverylong}

when generating a format, are patterns loaded?

if not, make sure that in cont-usr.tex the us hyphenation filename matches the 
one on your system,

ushyph1.tex
ushyph2.tex
ushyphen.tex
hyphen.tex

unfortunately those names change per distribution, year, season, user, blow of 
the winds, etc

[in a next release, already in alpha, you can use different methods, see 
hyphenation document on web site]

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Hans,

>> MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
>
> but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)

Not yet :-)

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: lack of hyphenation

[Taco Hoekwater]

Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Hello Hans,
> 
>>>MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
>>
>>but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)
> 
> Not yet :-)

It is easy to make TeX look, but not as easy to make it see :-)

Taco

Re: Re: lack of hyphenation

[h h extern]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> 
>> Hello Hans,
>>
>>>> MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
>>>
>>>
>>> but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)
>>
>>
>> Not yet :-)
> 
> 
> It is easy to make TeX look, but not as easy to make it see :-)

It has to do with grayness, so i wonder what happens if a paragraph would be 
converted into a bitmap and analyzed with a neural net

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

RE: lack of hyphenation

[Mats Broberg]

Dear listmembers,

I would say that the risk of getting rivers in text typeset using TeX &
children is minimum, as long as you choose sensible values for typesize
and column width. And much, much less than in MS Word, InDesign,
QuarkXPress etc.

Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt:

- Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above
each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line
etc. Catches your eye.

- Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not
putting it in an \mbox.

- In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new
paragraph, this last line is called "simple child of a whore". If the
first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last
paragraph, this line is called "double child of a whore". Now, in
InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the
"simple child of a whore" to the next page, and, for "double child of a
whore", to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this
leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in
these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing
between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If
you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for
its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However,
for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want
to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this,
but it would be great if it was.

Best regards,
Mats Broberg


> Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> > The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
> > lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
> > with
> > MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
> 
> but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Mikael Persson]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:54:07 +0100, Mats Broberg <mats.broberg@chello.se> wrote:
> Dear listmembers,
> 
> I would say that the risk of getting rivers in text typeset using TeX &
> children is minimum, as long as you choose sensible values for typesize
> and column width. And much, much less than in MS Word, InDesign,
> QuarkXPress etc.
> 
> Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt:
> 
> - Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above
> each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line
> etc. Catches your eye.
> 
> - Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not
> putting it in an \mbox.
> 
> - In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new
> paragraph, this last line is called "simple child of a whore". If the
> first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last
> paragraph, this line is called "double child of a whore". Now, in
> InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the
> "simple child of a whore" to the next page, and, for "double child of a
> whore", to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this
> leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in
> these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing
> between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If
> you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for
> its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However,
> for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want
> to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this,
> but it would be great if it was.
> 
> Best regards,
> Mats Broberg
> 
> 

Hej Mats!

I would like to recommend the interesting document

http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/style.pdf

Mvh, Micke P

PS
Fun to see another swede here on the list
DS

RE: lack of hyphenation

[Mats Broberg]

> Hej Mats!
> 
> I would like to recommend the interesting document
> 
> http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/style.pdf
> 
> Mvh, Micke P
> 
> PS
> Fun to see another swede here on the list
> DS

Thanks - I knew about that manual already. 

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

P.S. Likewise...! D.S.

Re: lack of hyphenation

[h h extern]

Mats Broberg wrote:

> Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt:
> 
> - Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above
> each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line
> etc. Catches your eye.

since it has to do with extending tex ... that one is for patrick gundlach

> - Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not
> putting it in an \mbox.

hm, the problem with such things is that when tex breaks the page, the paragraph 
is already set; you're looking for some breed between widow/club and 
hyphenpenalties

> - In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new
> paragraph, this last line is called "simple child of a whore". If the
> first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last
> paragraph, this line is called "double child of a whore". Now, in
> InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the
> "simple child of a whore" to the next page, and, for "double child of a
> whore", to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this
> leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in
> these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing
> between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If
> you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for
> its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However,
> for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want
> to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this,
> but it would be great if it was.

i did play with strategies and strategy passes long ago; strategies could be

- make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller
- make page slightly larger/smaller
- increse/decrease bodyfont size
- etc

the problem is that one can end up in oscillating

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

RE: lack of hyphenation

[Mats Broberg]

> - make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller
> - make page slightly larger/smaller
> - increse/decrease bodyfont size
> - etc
> 
> the problem is that one can end up in oscillating
> 
> Hans

Wouldn't it be possible to use something like \ballast, in the way it is
used in the ledmac package for LaTeX? 

I don't have the documentation at hand, but if I don't remember wrong,
if e.g. a pagebreak starts oscillating, the value of the \ballast is
subtracted from the set of different values that makes the pagebreak
oscillate.

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

Re: lack of hyphenation

[Hans Hagen]

Mats Broberg wrote:
>>- make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller
>>- make page slightly larger/smaller
>>- increse/decrease bodyfont size
>>- etc
>>
>>the problem is that one can end up in oscillating
>>
>>Hans
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be possible to use something like \ballast, in the way it is
> used in the ledmac package for LaTeX? 
> 
> I don't have the documentation at hand, but if I don't remember wrong,
> if e.g. a pagebreak starts oscillating, the value of the \ballast is
> subtracted from the set of different values that makes the pagebreak
> oscillate.

it depends a bit on what effect one wants to achieve, a local fix, say page 
7-9),may as well spoil the one at page 123-127, which then spoils the toc, which 
in turn results in page 7 being messed up because the content moves to page 8, 
and a figure now ends up on a different side of the spread, and since in that 
doc graphic alignment is page dependent, we get yet more changes .... there is 
quote some two pass info going around and although it may look like things are 
ok (by looking are some pages) someplace else in the doc things may have gone 
wrong, which goes unnoticed for a while

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

RE: lack of hyphenation

[Mats Broberg]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:

> The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
> lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
> with
> MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of
> hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am
> typesetting with context and not a single line had a
> hyphenated word at the end.
> 
> So, my question is: Is it okay?

Oops - sorry for the misreading! I thought you asked if it was
_typographically_ okay - hence my lengthy answer about H&J, Bartels et
al...!

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Peter Münster]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should
> be part of standard ConTeXt.

Why not?

Thanks a lot for this port, Taco, it's great!
Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

packaging of extra modules

[Taco Hoekwater]

Peter Münster wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should
>>be part of standard ConTeXt.
> 
> Why not?

In it's current state, I will not offer support for this code because
it is essentially a quick and dirty query-replace hack without any
quality testing (as is obvious from the fact that I just redefined
the predefined \sbox macro).

If it were part of the main distribution, someone would have to support
it, and if that person is not me, then it will wind up being Hans, who
has better things to do than support code that he has not even written.

Hans and I will no doubt discuss this during EuroTeX. Perhaps the
best way to distribute things like this would indeed be a separate
file that contains all of the (known) optional stuff, with a large
"no support provided" disclaimer. Perhaps...

Greetings, Taco

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[h h extern]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
> 
> Gerben Wierda wrote:
>  >
> 
>> how do you handle additions like this in your ConTeXt distribution? 
>> Will they become part of it for instance?
> 
> 
> Hans usually asks authors whether they want the module to be part
> of the distribution. Mostly, authors say yes, but not always.
> 
> This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should
> be part of standard ConTeXt. <<I guess that means I should submit
> it to CTAN>>

as usual taco is right -)

the main challenge with such modules is to avoid name conflicts, not so much a 
problem for the taco's who know context inside out, but maybe tricky for others

i can imagine something along the lines:

- if someone has such a port, given that it has aproper namespace, as taco did 
with his module, it can end up in

    context/port/tryout

- once a few people has looked at the code in order to uncover potential areas 
of conflict and/or to identify places that can be contexified [low level calls, 
fonts, etc], and when the code is tagged okay, it can move to

    context/port/final

watch the lower alphabetic order, it will then overload pending copies in tryout

- each module should have a test file that end up in

    context/port/test

so that users can check if things work as expected

being too rigourous is bad for development, but we need to have some 
rules/methods in order not to end up in a low level redefinition mess (not 
unthinkable when one converts from another macro package); of course we can 
always create

- context/port/yourownrisk
- context/port/zombie

last in the search path

as said by taco, ctan is the place to collect the files; each module can have a 
wiki page

taco and i can make t-figurines into an example [reference] for such a model

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[h h extern]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> David Wooten wrote:
> 
>> Hmm, this is great.
>> However, I can't seem to get it to accept an image (Image=true or 
>> Image=yes). Anyone else have some luck?
> 
> 
> It couldn't work. Here is a new version, with fixed image support,
> some cleanups in the code, and support for per-argument setup
> functionality as provided by \LettrineOptionsFor{...} in LaTeX
> 
> The one thing I could not/did not solve is how to make ConTeXt shut
> up about 'bodyfont 112.5pt is defined (can better be done global)'.

just do something

in setup: LettrineFont = Serif

in code: \definedfont[Serif at ...]

instead


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1096 bytes --]


Ok, so I *should* be doing other stuff, but this is just a lot
of fun, so here is the 3rd version, with three bugfixes

- No more font messages
   (followed Hans' advice)
- No more \sbox redefinition
   (used it's expansion instead)
- The page breaks unless the lettrine actually fits
   (this is an independant improvement by me)

This is the last version before EuroTeX. Really. ;-)

Greetings, Taco

h h extern wrote:
> just do something
> 
> in setup: LettrineFont = Serif
> 
> in code: \definedfont[Serif at ...]
> 
> instead
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context


[-- Attachment #2: t-lettri.tex --]
[-- Type: application/x-tex, Size: 5216 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1852 bytes --]

Taco,

Great work. I did some tests of this and have a few comments:

- I tested with the inital "H" and
[Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be
indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both
before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.


- The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this
is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other
conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower
case etc.

- Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately
for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a
different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".

- Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g.
if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to
control that would be great.

However, bear in mind that I installed ConTeXt for the first time
yesterday and have never used TeX and children before, so I may very
well have done something wrong when I used the module...! :)

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl 
> [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Taco Hoekwater
> Sent: den 27 februari 2005 15:29
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so I *should* be doing other stuff, but this is just a 
> lot of fun, so here is the 3rd version, with three bugfixes
> 
> - No more font messages
>    (followed Hans' advice)
> - No more \sbox redefinition
>    (used it's expansion instead)
> - The page breaks unless the lettrine actually fits
>    (this is an independant improvement by me)
> 
> This is the last version before EuroTeX. Really. ;-)
> 
> Greetings, Taco

[-- Attachment #2: test.gif --]
[-- Type: image/gif, Size: 17909 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1178 bytes --]



Mats Broberg wrote:
> 
> - I tested with the inital "H" and
> [Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be
> indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both
> before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.

That was a bug, so, although I promised I wouldn't do this ... here is
version four. ;-)

> - The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this
> is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other
> conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower
> case etc.

You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.

> - Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately
> for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a
> different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".

I will keep this in mind for a future extension

> - Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g.
> if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to
> control that would be great.

You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.

Greetings, Taco

[-- Attachment #2: t-lettri.tex --]
[-- Type: application/x-tex, Size: 5213 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[VnPenguin]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1840 bytes --]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:34:44 +0100, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Mats Broberg wrote:
> >
> > - I tested with the inital "H" and
> > [Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be
> > indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both
> > before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.
> 
> That was a bug, so, although I promised I wouldn't do this ... here is
> version four. ;-)
> 
> > - The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this
> > is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other
> > conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower
> > case etc.
> 
> You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.
> 
> > - Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately
> > for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a
> > different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".
> 
> I will keep this in mind for a future extension
> 
> > - Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g.
> > if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to
> > control that would be great.
> 
> You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.
> 
> Greetings, Taco
> 

Just tried the following code:
-------------------------------------------------
\starttext
\placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]}
Voici a very silly \input tufte

\blank[1cm]

\placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]}
\lettrine {V}{oici} a very silly \input tufte
\stoptext
--------------------------------------------------------------
There is a strange behaviour of \placefigure[right] when using
\lettrine (see attached image)

Any ideas ?

Thanks,
Q.

[-- Attachment #2: lettrine.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 61973 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --]

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[VnPenguin]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:34:44 +0100, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Mats Broberg wrote:
> >
> > - I tested with the inital "H" and
> > [Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be
> > indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both
> > before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.
> 
> That was a bug, so, although I promised I wouldn't do this ... here is
> version four. ;-)
> 
> > - The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this
> > is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other
> > conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower
> > case etc.
> 
> You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.
> 
> > - Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately
> > for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a
> > different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".
> 
> I will keep this in mind for a future extension
> 
> > - Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g.
> > if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to
> > control that would be great.
> 
> You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.
> 
> Greetings, Taco

Just tried the following code:
-------------------------------------------------
\starttext
\placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]}
Voici a very silly \input tufte

\blank[1cm]

\placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]}
\lettrine {V}{oici} a very silly \input tufte
\stoptext
--------------------------------------------------------------
There is a strange behaviour of \placefigure[right] when using
\lettrine (see PDF at http://people.vnoss.org/~vnpenguin/pub/context/drop.pdf )

Any ideas ?

Thanks,
Q.

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

VnPenguin wrote:
> There is a strange behaviour of \placefigure[right] when using
> \lettrine (see PDF at http://people.vnoss.org/~vnpenguin/pub/context/drop.pdf )
> 
> Any ideas ?

Unfortunately, this cannot be helped.  It is a limitation
of the \parshape primitive.

Greetings, Taco

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Ciro A. Soto]

trivial question from a novice:
What are the steps to use a new module 
like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file?
what command should I type to make is available to
context? etc...
thank you
ciro

PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context
from February 2005.

RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

Ciro,

Being a novice, I asked myself that too, before I took the plunge and
put the .sty file in the C:\texmf\tex\context\base\ folder.

Then I typed "mktexlsr" in the DOS prompt and after the computer had
done whatever it does when one types that, it worked like a charm.

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl 
> [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Ciro A. Soto
> Sent: den 1 mars 2005 23:37
> To: VnPenguin; mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX
> 
> 
> trivial question from a novice:
> What are the steps to use a new module 
> like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file?
> what command should I type to make is available to
> context? etc...
> thank you
> ciro
> 
> PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context
> from February 2005. _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> 

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[VnPenguin]

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto
<cirosoto@ameritech.net> wrote:
> trivial question from a novice:
> What are the steps to use a new module
> like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file?
> what command should I type to make is available to
> context? etc...
> thank you
> ciro
> 
> PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context
> from February 2005.

In teTeX 3.0 (FC3 box) I put the file  t-lettri.tex in
$HOME/texmf/tex/context/user/ and run command "texhash". That's all :)

HTH,
Q.

RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

> On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto 
> <cirosoto@ameritech.net> wrote:
> > trivial question from a novice:
> > What are the steps to use a new module
> > like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file?
> > what command should I type to make is available to
> > context? etc...
> > thank you
> > ciro
> > 
> > PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context
> > from February 2005.
> 
> In teTeX 3.0 (FC3 box) I put the file  t-lettri.tex in 
> $HOME/texmf/tex/context/user/ and run command "texhash". That's all :)
> 
> HTH,
> Q.

OK, so this is the 'standard of procedure'? Not to put it in \base and
run mktexlsr?

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Willi Egger]

Hi Mats,

I followed this thread. Basically the t-lettri.tex must be placed in a 
path known to TeX. Indeed if you place it in \base or \user this is the 
case. - In earlier discussion I think to remember that one could best 
create a directory \third (or similar) where such files can be placed.

Kind regards

Willi

Mats Broberg wrote:
>>On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto 
>><cirosoto@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>>trivial question from a novice:
>>>What are the steps to use a new module
>>>like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file?
>>>what command should I type to make is available to
>>>context? etc...
>>>thank you
>>>ciro
>>>
>>>PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context
>>>from February 2005.
>>
>>In teTeX 3.0 (FC3 box) I put the file  t-lettri.tex in 
>>$HOME/texmf/tex/context/user/ and run command "texhash". That's all :)
>>
>>HTH,
>>Q.
> 
> 
> OK, so this is the 'standard of procedure'? Not to put it in \base and
> run mktexlsr?
> 
> Best regards,
> Mats Broberg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Hans Hagen]

Mats Broberg wrote:

> OK, so this is the 'standard of procedure'? Not to put it in \base and
> run mktexlsr?

indeed, that way you can wipe out base when updating

actually, here i often have an additional tree texmf-project for project 
specific files

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Ciro A. Soto]

Another question, this one is for Hans:
I tried your file from feb 27:
supp-fu3.tex.
I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex"
and got: 

Undefined control sequence.
\doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether
 
{#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}...
l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps  {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W}
 
\input tufte \endgraf
 
Where could be the problem? I see the definition of
doDroppedCaps in the file, but ....

thank you
ciro

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Hans Hagen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1004 bytes --]

Ciro A. Soto wrote:
> Another question, this one is for Hans:
> I tried your file from feb 27:
> supp-fu3.tex.
> I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex"
> and got: 
> 
> Undefined control sequence.
> \doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether
>  
> {#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}...
> l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps  {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W}
>  
> \input tufte \endgraf
>  
> Where could be the problem? I see the definition of
> doDroppedCaps in the file, but ....

i isolated some code and keeplinetogether is part of that; you can try the 
attached file (with your own samples; syntax slightly changed)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Gerben Wierda]

I tried this and the drop.tex example from Taco with

	texexec --pdf drop.tex

but this ends in disaster:

system          : macros of module lettri loaded
(./t-lettri.tex
! Illegal parameter number in definition of \LettrineFontEPS.
<to be read again>
                    1
l.99 \def\LettrineFontEPS{#1
                             }{%
? x
No pages of output.

This is the latest ConTeXt beta. What am I doing wrong?

G

On 3 Mar 2005, at 08:09, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Ciro A. Soto wrote:
>> Another question, this one is for Hans:
>> I tried your file from feb 27:
>> supp-fu3.tex.
>> I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex"
>> and got: Undefined control sequence.
>> \doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether
>>  {#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}...
>> l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps  {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W}
>>  \input tufte \endgraf
>>  Where could be the problem? I see the definition of
>> doDroppedCaps in the file, but ....
>
> i isolated some code and keeplinetogether is part of that; you can try 
> the attached file (with your own samples; syntax slightly changed)
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> <supp-fu3.zip>_______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Gerben Wierda]

Oops. My fault. Apple Mail.app had saved the newer version 
automatically as t-lettri-1.tex (instead of giving me a warning panel - 
stupid program)

G

On 10 Mar 2005, at 21:04, Gerben Wierda wrote:

> I tried this and the drop.tex example from Taco with
>
> 	texexec --pdf drop.tex
>
> but this ends in disaster:
>
> system          : macros of module lettri loaded
> (./t-lettri.tex
> ! Illegal parameter number in definition of \LettrineFontEPS.
> <to be read again>
>                    1
> l.99 \def\LettrineFontEPS{#1
>                             }{%
> ? x
> No pages of output.
>
> This is the latest ConTeXt beta. What am I doing wrong?
>
> G
>
> On 3 Mar 2005, at 08:09, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> Ciro A. Soto wrote:
>>> Another question, this one is for Hans:
>>> I tried your file from feb 27:
>>> supp-fu3.tex.
>>> I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex"
>>> and got: Undefined control sequence.
>>> \doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether
>>>  {#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}...
>>> l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps  {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W}
>>>  \input tufte \endgraf
>>>  Where could be the problem? I see the definition of
>>> doDroppedCaps in the file, but ....
>>
>> i isolated some code and keeplinetogether is part of that; you can 
>> try the attached file (with your own samples; syntax slightly 
>> changed)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> <supp-fu3.zip>_______________________________________________
>> ntg-context mailing list
>> ntg-context@ntg.nl
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

> > - The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. 
> However, this 
> > is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. 
> > Other conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman 
> or italic 
> > lower case etc.
> 
> You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.
> 
> > - Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation 
> separately 
> > for each line. This depends on the fact that some 
> characters call for 
> > a different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the 
> character "L".
> 
> I will keep this in mind for a future extension
> 
> > - Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, 
> > e.g. if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a 
> parameter 
> > to control that would be great.
> 
> You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.

Many thanks!

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[h h extern]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1950 bytes --]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

>> basically you want to follow a shape; this is not that hard to 
>> implement so i can have a look at it; lettrines is then an instance of it
> 
> Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite
> funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example.

ah, nice, so, lettrines only does a slanted shape?

i played a bit with shapes last night and will probably add something to the 
drop macros, and probably also move the code to core-fnt; but it will be a bit 
more complex and take some more time; it's a good testbed for playing with 
things like glyph shape similarity and such; also, proper alignment is an issue.

(i attached supp-fu3.tex, no production code, just for fun)

concerning your module, maybe we should introduce a new category of modules, 
e.g. c-lettrines.tex with x meaning 'converted'; we can then collect them in 
another zip;

remark 1:

\sbox is already definined and in use,

i remember someone telling me that this \hbox{{#1}} stuff is needed to satisfy 
latex's color mechanism, but that's not needed in context, so a simple

\setbox\Lettrinetbox{}

is not only even more efficient in terms of tokens and performance (unnoticable) 
but also does not clash with the core macro.

remark 2:

auto-lettrines (dropcaps etc) are kind of complex in the sense that it's not 
trivial to pick up the first 'something' in a paragraph in a robust way [we may 
want some extension to tex for that (so we have something to discuss during our 
trip to eurotex -)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Taco Hoekwater]

h h extern wrote:
> Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> 
>> Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite
>> funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example.
> 
> ah, nice, so, lettrines only does a slanted shape?

Yes, only slopes (both directions). And it allows the user to move
the actual initial box to a `more pleasing' location.

> \sbox is already definined and in use,

I will fix this (and write documentation), but I will not have
time for that until after EuroTeX (march 7-11).  If anybody wants
stuff added that is not in lettrine.sty, feel free to tell me.

Greetings, Taco

RE: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Mats Broberg]

> auto-lettrines (dropcaps etc) are kind of complex in the 
> sense that it's not 
> trivial to pick up the first 'something' in a paragraph in a 
> robust way [we may 
> want some extension to tex for that (so we have something to 
> discuss during our 
> trip to eurotex -)
> 
> Hans

If I may chime in:

Also, automated drop caps (if that is what you refer to) is not a
feasible way to go if high typographic quality is important. Different
typefaces and different characters need different level of protruding
into the left margin, as well as other actions of tweaking. As an
example, the automated drop caps in some of the more famous DTP programs
are useless.

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

Re: lettrine.sty, but not LaTeX

[Adam Lindsay]

Mats Broberg said this at Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:51:04 +0100:

> Different
>typefaces and different characters need different level of protruding
>into the left margin, as well as other actions of tweaking.

Ah, but when Hans says this:

> it's a good testbed for playing with 
>things like glyph shape similarity and such; also, proper alignment is an
>issue.

... it makes me think that these things may indeed be under
consideration, as it sounds like hooks into the recently-improved
Handling mechanisms.

(And then fancy Lettrine handling sounds like it becomes 2-dimensional
handling, then I start thinking about "Optical Kerning" features in
Famous DTP Package and then I get dizzy, and need to sit down.)
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Python,swig and pdftex ?

[luigi.scarso]

I'm try do make something useful with Python and pdftex using swig.
Any suggestions ?

Re: Python,swig and pdftex ?

[Janko Hauser]

luigi.scarso schrieb:
> I'm try do make something useful with Python and pdftex using swig.
> Any suggestions ?
>
Have you looked at pytex? It does nothing with pdftex, but I do not know
what do you want to actually do.

__Janko

Re: Python,swig and pdftex ?

[luigi.scarso]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 771 bytes --]

Janko Hauser wrote:

>luigi.scarso schrieb:
>  
>
>>I'm try do make something useful with Python and pdftex using swig.
>>Any suggestions ?
>>
>>    
>>
>Have you looked at pytex? It does nothing with pdftex, but I do not know
>what do you want to actually do.
>
>__Janko
>
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>  
>
I have found
http://www.metatex.org

that seem to be a good starting point.
I would like to explore the possibility to embed a pyhton interpreter 
into pdftex,and use it into ConTeXt ("python inside context");
another wish is some python modules to do some typesetting jobs using
ConTexT ("context inside python"); maybe swig can be help.

luigi

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