Re: Bloody PDF boxes and cr*p marks!

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>]

> Am 12.10.2021 um 20:48 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>:
> 
>> Hm, you implemented these boxes only in 2015, there was not much change in that regard since then.
> 
> Way earlier but it wasn't enabled ... (I'm not going to check ancient tex live dvd's).
> 
>    addtopageattributes("CropBox",box) -- mandate for rendering
>    addtopageattributes("TrimBox",box) -- mandate for pdf/x
> -- addtopageattributes("BleedBox",box)
> -- addtopageattributes("ArtBox",box)
> 
> I remember discussing it with (I think) Pablo and it definityely came up when we were dealing with these 'standards'.

Ok. I found it in lpdf-mis.lua, maybe I’ll use the Lua function directly.

>>> well, that's an assumption ... who knows what a printer (driver) does ...
>> Who sends PDF files directly to a printer (driver)? I know it only from automated, professional workflows.
>> Usually printer drivers gets fed by PDF viewers, and I know none that even *can* print something different than CropBox.
> 
> afaik some printers accept pdf (hard to check) but I the fact that a viewer does something doesn't mean it did years ago (just like at how crippled tounicode has been / is supported over time)

Yes, you can send PDF files to some copiers and other professional printing devices. But usually you do this via the manufacturer’s workflow tools – only a few admins still know how to (ab)use a prn queue ;)

>>>> Beware, \setupbleeding refers only to stretching of images (\externalfigure)!
>>> 
>>> fwiw, that bleeding options is mostly there to communicate with mp
>> Good to know. I just browsed the Details manual, didn’t try it yet, since I scale and move my “bleeding” images differently.
> 
> i actually need to pick up that bit ... (some code in my local styles i need to check) because it can be handy for cover pages (but then i also need to check if i don't break something

I’d be interested to see what you’re trying.
I want to create my covers more and more with ConTeXt to avoid manual adaptions due to number of pages.

>>> the problem is as usual documentation and indeed we can have some backward compatibility issue here ... i honestly have no clue how viewers and printers react (so if something would be added/changed it would be option driven)
>> I wouldn’t expect printers (office printing devices) to react at all; I hope that printers (printshop workers) will react positively to correct boxes in our PDFs ;)
> 
> oh, i'm often surprised about printing houses .. (the best were some comment on a file having rgb bitmaps while it actually had cmyk outlines and validators/fixers inlining xforms while setting lines to 0pt widths) .. and some still use acrobat 4 -)

Yep, last weekend I finally sent the latest issue of our magazine to the printshop, of course with correctly set boxes (and markings activated), and since the content didn’t need bleed this time, I set the CropBox to TrimBox. Everything in perfect order – but they charged me for adding crop marks... (Without even asking back.) I’ll teach them PDF basics.

BTW, is there a hook to replace crop marks with my own?
Ah, found page-mrk.mkiv
Can I just replace \startuniqueMPgraphic{print:lines} ?
(Something to play with if I get into MP mode...)


>>> probably spreads need some treatment (imposition)
>> Multiple pages on a sheet are not considered by the PDF specs.
> 
> yes but what of context imposes

Right. IMO, if there’s a BleedBox defined, ConTeXt should use it as “page size”, otherwise CropBox.

> remind me in a few months (it's a typical boring winter evening activity with some music blu ray (or movie) running on a second screen)

I’ll never understand how others can work with such distractions ;)


Hraban


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