Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Mojca Miklavec]

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Hello,

On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:

%%%%%%

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
a box with a table:
\fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par

a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
\end{document}

%%%%%%

I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:

%%%%%%

\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
\bTABLE
\bTR\bTD
	a midaligned parbox:
\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
	1 2 3
\eTD\eTR
\eTABLE

%%%%%%

My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.

The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
although it is too wide.

Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
vcenter-context-new.png for the result.

vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This also results in a mess on the live.contextgarden.net:

\bTABLE
\bTR\bTD
     {\bTABLE
        \bTR\bTD whatever \eTD\eTR
     \eTABLE}
\eTD\eTR
\eTABLE

Mojca

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Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
> someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>
> %%%%%%
>
> \documentclass{article}
> \begin{document}
> a box with a table:
> \fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>
> a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
> \end{document}
>
> %%%%%%
>
^^^^ watch the \\ ! ! ! !

> I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
> case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
> center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:
>
> %%%%%%
>
> \setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
> \setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
> \bTABLE
> \bTR\bTD
>     a midaligned parbox:
> \eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>     1 2 3
> \eTD\eTR
> \eTABLE
>
> %%%%%%

so, in order to compare, use 1\\2\\3 here too

\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
\bTABLE
\bTR\bTD
    a midaligned parbox:
\eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
    1 2 3
\eTD\eTR
\bTR\bTD
    a midaligned parbox:
\eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
    \ruledhbox{1 2} 3
\eTD\eTR
\bTR\bTD
    a midaligned parbox:
\eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
    1\\2\\3
\eTD\eTR
\eTABLE

>
> My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
> See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.
>
> The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
> although it is too wide.
>
> Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
> vcenter-context-new.png for the result.
>
> vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.

tex's ways of determining the optimal paragraph are magic ...

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
>> someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>>
>> %%%%%%
>>
>> \documentclass{article}
>> \begin{document}
>> a box with a table:
>> \fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>>
>> a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
>> \end{document}
>>
>> %%%%%%
>>

> ^^^^ watch the \\ ! ! ! !

Thanks, Hans,

I'm sorry. I take my word about strange line breaking back.

But nevertheless ... the live.contextgarden.net version seems to have 
problems with all these examples. It does strange things (see the PNGs 
attached to my first posting).

I don't have the newest version installed, so I can't test test it here.

Mojca


> so, in order to compare, use 1\\2\\3 here too
> 
> \setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
> \setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
> \bTABLE
> \bTR\bTD
>    a midaligned parbox:
> \eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>    1 2 3
> \eTD\eTR
> \bTR\bTD
>    a midaligned parbox:
> \eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>    \ruledhbox{1 2} 3
> \eTD\eTR
> \bTR\bTD
>    a midaligned parbox:
> \eTD\bTD[offset=overlay,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>    1\\2\\3
> \eTD\eTR
> \eTABLE

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
>> It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
>> than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
>> numbers then.
>>  
>>
> let's eee what taco says ... our tex source  magician may knows the 
> dirty details

lines that cannot stretch far enough are skipped. Lines that cannot
shrink far enough are unsolvable, and therefore remain present.

Taco

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
>than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
>numbers then.
>  
>
let's eee what taco says ... our tex source  magician may knows the 
dirty details

>... but in the latest ConTeXt version it looks as if it wouldn't work at all.
>  
>
eh ... what exactly does not work in the latest



Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Hans Hagen]

Elena Fraboschi wrote:

>Dear Mojca:
>
>I think I see what the problem is.  If, instead of typing
>
>  
>
>>\bTR\bTD
>>	a midaligned parbox:
>>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>>	1 2 3
>>\eTD\eTR
>>    
>>
>
>you type
>1\ 2\ 3\
>
>you get what is wanted, namely,
>
>  1
>  2
>  3
>  
>My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
>but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
>issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
>is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
>by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
>even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
>define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.
>Best, elena
>
>P.S.  Let me know if I missed the boat entirely.  This is the
>first issue I attempt to answer.
>
>Here is what I ran in LiveContext:
>
>\starttext
>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>\setupTABLE[c][each][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD[offset=0pt,width=0.5em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1\ 2\ 3\
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>\stoptext
>
>
>
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
>>someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>\documentclass{article}
>>\begin{document}
>>a box with a table:
>>\fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>>
>>a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
>>\end{document}
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
>>case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
>>center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>>\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>>\bTABLE
>>\bTR\bTD
>>	a midaligned parbox:
>>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>>	1 2 3
>>\eTD\eTR
>>\eTABLE
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
>>See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.
>>
>>The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
>>although it is too wide.
>>
>>Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
>>vcenter-context-new.png for the result.
>>
>>vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>This also results in a mess on the live.contextgarden.net:
>>
>>\bTABLE
>>\bTR\bTD
>>    {\bTABLE
>>       \bTR\bTD whatever \eTD\eTR
>>    \eTABLE}
>>\eTD\eTR
>>\eTABLE
>>
>>Mojca
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
>
>  
>


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Mojca Miklavec]

Elena Fraboschi wrote:
> My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
> but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
> issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
> is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
> by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
> even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
> define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.

It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
numbers then.

... but in the latest ConTeXt version it looks as if it wouldn't work at all.

-----------------------------------------------

It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
functionality.

Mojca

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Elena Fraboschi]

Dear Mojca:

I think I see what the problem is.  If, instead of typing

>\bTR\bTD
>	a midaligned parbox:
>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1 2 3
>\eTD\eTR

you type
1\ 2\ 3\

you get what is wanted, namely,

  1
  2
  3
  
My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.
Best, elena

P.S.  Let me know if I missed the boat entirely.  This is the
first issue I attempt to answer.

Here is what I ran in LiveContext:

\starttext
\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
\setupTABLE[c][each][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
\bTABLE
\bTR\bTD[offset=0pt,width=0.5em] % 1em wide paragraph
	1\ 2\ 3\
\eTD\eTR
\eTABLE
\stoptext



>Hello,
>
>On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
>someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>
>%%%%%%
>
>\documentclass{article}
>\begin{document}
>a box with a table:
>\fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>
>a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
>\end{document}
>
>%%%%%%
>
>I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
>case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
>center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:
>
>%%%%%%
>
>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD
>	a midaligned parbox:
>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1 2 3
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>
>%%%%%%
>
>My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
>See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.
>
>The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
>although it is too wide.
>
>Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
>vcenter-context-new.png for the result.
>
>vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>This also results in a mess on the live.contextgarden.net:
>
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD
>     {\bTABLE
>        \bTR\bTD whatever \eTD\eTR
>     \eTABLE}
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>
>Mojca