[Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

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Hi Jacko,

There is some confusion about tcaron. The problem si that when another 
name is used, am2tfm cannot create proper small caps when there is no 
matching upper/lowercase slot.

What do you advice in this. Should the ec enc file be changed?

Hans

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From: Patrick Gundlach <patrick@gundla.ch>
To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Subject: [NTG-context] Re: ec encoding and tcaron
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:57:43 +0200
Message-ID: <m2r7cudzso.fsf@levana.de>


[trightquote/tcaron]

> So it seems that fonts are using /tcaron; lm use /tquoteright only for sure.

ok, thanks

> Does anybody know who is responsibility/background for ec encoding?

Last time I asked about the encodings (xt2.enc in particular) I got
the following answer from Thomas Esser:

> That file comes from the fontname distribution (CTAN:info/fontname).
> If you request for a change in that file, please write either to the
> tex-fonts list or to Karl Berry.

Patrick
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Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> well, since mojca want some additional glyphs as well, why not make an  ecx.enc file that fixes these things; actually, you only need that file for generating metrics and rename the ecx-* files to ec-* afterwards; we can tweak texfotn to use a different encoding name and output name if needed.

I don't need any additional glyphs, it's only that the stuff that
should work, doesn't work.

> Should the ec enc file be changed?

Thanks, Patrick for pointing me to this files in CTAN. Now I saw
another couple of strange things, that HAVE TO be corrected in order
to make things work properly.

- In ec encoding, dstroke (dcroat according to the Adobe glyph name)
is named dbar. In my opinion, this should be renamed as soon as
possible and also synchronized for the fonts present in CTAN. dbar is
against any standard naming scheme.
- In xl2 encoding, which states to be T1 + ISO Latin 2 in the upper
part, someone made a mistake at the glyph F0, which is eth, but should
be dcroat !!! The mistake was easy to make since Eth equals Dcroat,
but eth does not equal dcroat. The one who wrote the file didn't
notice that. (consecutively, D0 is also wrong)

The Vietnamese encoding seems to be the only one when things were done OK.

Can someone do anything about that? It seems to be a similar "bug" as tcaron.


And about the ConTeXt-specific: dcroat and Eth are both already
present in ec encoding, so I'm not asking for any additional glyphs.
It's not OK to use Eth when someone asks for Dcroat (Dstroke), but
it's better than using the improvized (althoug corrected) version,
pseudoencodedDJ.
My question was: can anything be done, so that dcroat will be chosen
instead of \pseudoencodeddj and that Eth will be chosen instead of
\pseudoencodedDJ when someone types \dstroke or \Dstroke (when in ec
encoding)?

Btw: which languages use Eth? Is it more common than Dcroat?

Hans, thank you for including the new version of \pseudoencodedDJ in
the distribution before I even managed to go online :)

Thank you,
    Mojca

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>And about the ConTeXt-specific: dcroat and Eth are both already
>present in ec encoding, so I'm not asking for any additional glyphs.
>It's not OK to use Eth when someone asks for Dcroat (Dstroke), but
>it's better than using the improvized (althoug corrected) version,
>pseudoencodedDJ.
>My question was: can anything be done, so that dcroat will be chosen
>instead of \pseudoencodeddj and that Eth will be chosen instead of
>\pseudoencodedDJ when someone types \dstroke or \Dstroke (when in ec
>encoding)?
>  
>
just send me the patch because otherwise i will mess things up 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
> >And about the ConTeXt-specific: dcroat and Eth are both already
> >present in ec encoding, so I'm not asking for any additional glyphs.
> >It's not OK to use Eth when someone asks for Dcroat (Dstroke), but
> >it's better than using the improvized (althoug corrected) version,
> >pseudoencodedDJ.
> >My question was: can anything be done, so that dcroat will be chosen
> >instead of \pseudoencodeddj and that Eth will be chosen instead of
> >\pseudoencodedDJ when someone types \dstroke or \Dstroke (when in ec
> >encoding)?
>
> just send me the patch because otherwise i will mess things up

I would if I knew/understood at which place ConTeXt decides whether to
select a glyph from a font or to make a composed character (or use a
macro such as \pseudoencodeddj).

Mojca

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Hans Hagen wrote:
>  
>
>>Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>And about the ConTeXt-specific: dcroat and Eth are both already
>>>present in ec encoding, so I'm not asking for any additional glyphs.
>>>It's not OK to use Eth when someone asks for Dcroat (Dstroke), but
>>>it's better than using the improvized (althoug corrected) version,
>>>pseudoencodedDJ.
>>>My question was: can anything be done, so that dcroat will be chosen
>>>instead of \pseudoencodeddj and that Eth will be chosen instead of
>>>\pseudoencodedDJ when someone types \dstroke or \Dstroke (when in ec
>>>encoding)?
>>>      
>>>
>>just send me the patch because otherwise i will mess things up
>>    
>>
>
>I would if I knew/understood at which place ConTeXt decides whether to
>select a glyph from a font or to make a composed character (or use a
>macro such as \pseudoencodeddj).
>  
>
if you use regimes: 

input encoding                  font encoding 

<active char> => \namedglyph => 8bit char | fallback 

so, it depends on it the 8 bit char being defined in the font encoding, else there is a fallback onto the default encoding 

Hans 

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Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> if you use regimes:
> 
> input encoding                  font encoding
> 
> <active char> => \namedglyph => 8bit char | fallback

OK, thanks. I didn't check if this works, but I hope the problem will
finally be solved now:

In enco-ec.tex change
    \definecharacter dmacron         158
into
    \definecharacter dstroke          158

and add
    \definecharacter Dstroke             208

% perhaps also something like
    \definecharacter dcroat         158
% but I think that you deal with synonyms at some place

Please also take a look at lang-hr.pat (or, better, please grep for
all occurencies of dbar and dmacron and see if you can get rid of as
many of them as possible).

Did I miss any other files?

Another remark. I'm not sure which name is better, dstroke
(unicode-based) or dcroat (adobe-based). ConTeXt seems to have a
strange mixture of unicode- and adobe- based names. "hungarumlaut" is
adobe-based, while "diaeresis" is unicode-based for example. I don't
want to introduce just another name, incompatible with any standards.


This additional patch below is the wrong way of doing things. It gives
wrong result in the sense that the copy-paste will result in wrong
character codes (and that a Croat won't notice that he's using the
wrong encoding, just as I didn't notice anything weird in ccaron for a
long time), but the resulting glyphs in PDF will be better and in the
printed material this won't be seen, which is the most important part.
If you use fallback, the results are worse in both senses anyway (the
document is not any more searchable).

So, can you please also add
    \definecharacter Dstroke             208
to enco-qx.tex and enco-ans.tex? And add also a comment that the
glyphs are identical, but the charecters differ, just in case anyone
wonders a couple of years later what these dstrokes are doing there.

Thank you,
    Mojca

PS:
So, let me count: dstroke, dmacron, dbar, dcroat, [wrong] eth, ... any
other suggestions for standardisation ;) ?

modules.pdf

[luigi.scarso]

I'm now synchronized with latest distro (2005.08.05) and pdfetex 1.3

Under
http://www.logosrl.it/context/
there are

*)modules.pdf  (~21MByte)

*) modules.zip, used to make modules.pdf

*)patches.zip, a zip file with following patches:
core-rul.patch
font-chi.patch
spec-fdf.patch
supp-lan.patch
supp-pdf.patch

*) modules.log


I found some problem with mill.png:  I put it under base/ and it was 
correctly included.
Also, partial indeces are not ok.

luigi

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Another remark. I'm not sure which name is better, dstroke
>(unicode-based) or dcroat (adobe-based). ConTeXt seems to have a
>strange mixture of unicode- and adobe- based names. "hungarumlaut" is
>adobe-based, while "diaeresis" is unicode-based for example. I don't
>want to introduce just another name, incompatible with any standards.
>  
>
take the one used in latin modern

Hans

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: modules.pdf

[Mojca Miklavec]

> I'm now synchronized with latest distro (2005.08.05) and pdfetex 1.3
> 
> Under
> http://www.logosrl.it/context/
> there are
> 
> *)modules.pdf  (~21MByte)

Great!

I would suggest to keep the old files and name them like
2005-08-16-modules.pdf (and perhaps to keep all the files (except
ConTeXt itself of course) since they have to be updated from time to
time as new files are added to the distribution). That way the old
content will not misteriously disappear.

It would be a nice idea to put that files on the garden anyway
(together with museum or on its own).

Mojca

modules.pdf

[luigi.scarso]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>
>I would suggest to keep the old files and name them like
>2005-08-16-modules.pdf 
>
done

>(and perhaps to keep all the files (except
>ConTeXt itself of course) since they have to be updated from time to
>time as new files are added to the distribution). That way the old
>content will not misteriously disappear.
>
>  
>
patches.zip contains patches for files with  some typo-errors (eg. $x4 
instead of $x$)
they  are (almost) irrelevant at format-generation time, because they 
are not
processed at all .

Also, some macros are in dutch (eg, \blank[2*groot]);
I excluded some others macros (\startpostponing ), correct some others
( \getvalue{period graybox} with \dotgray)
added \loadmap[gbk].... and so on.

Partial contents  are ugly (or broken ?) ;
there are many important modules to document (see Core Commands in 
modules.pdf;
inside modules.tex, 3=>ok, 1=>to be documented, 0=> to be exctract)

There are some overfull lines;
maybe there is a better sectioning (or multiple pdfs ?).


So, I think that this is a good starting point

I think that all patches should be approvated before to go into an 
official distro;
after that we can discuss all other stuffs.


>It would be a nice idea to put that files on the garden anyway
>  
>

no problem to me

luigi

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
> >Another remark. I'm not sure which name is better, dstroke
> >(unicode-based) or dcroat (adobe-based). ConTeXt seems to have a
> >strange mixture of unicode- and adobe- based names. "hungarumlaut" is
> >adobe-based, while "diaeresis" is unicode-based for example. I don't
> >want to introduce just another name, incompatible with any standards.
>
> take the one used in latin modern

Hmmm ... which one? dbar or dcroat? ;)
(/fonts/lm/doc/fonts/lm/0inf0983.txt tells that both of them are present)

Well, I didn't mean that seriously, I know that dbar is there just
because of compatibility with the "old" ec.enc files, but ... both in
adobe glyph list and unicode the situation is just horrible. "stroke"
in unicode is represented by 3 different names (croat, bar, slash):
- dcroat
- hbar
- lslash
- oslash
- tbar
Guess why dstroke/dcroat is named dbar in the ec encoding ... 

And I forgot yet another possibility in my list of names for that
single stupid letter that seems to be used nowhere except in Croatian
and Vietnamese ... \dj. Plus the one which should be used as a
"fallback" in Slovenian:
    \definecharacter dstroke {d\zcaron}

Out of the seven possibilities I vote for \dstroke and leave the
strange name (dcroat) to be handled by *.enc files only.

Mojca

Re: modules.pdf

[Hans Hagen]

luigi.scarso wrote:

> *)patches.zip, a zip file with following patches:
> core-rul.patch
> font-chi.patch
> spec-fdf.patch
> supp-lan.patch
> supp-pdf.patch

patched

Hans  

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: modules.pdf

[Hans Hagen]

luigi.scarso wrote:

> There are some overfull lines;
> maybe there is a better sectioning (or multiple pdfs ?).

i'll look into that later; also, it makes sense to used condensed monospaced latin modern fonts (will be available in a couple of weeks) 

Hans 

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Another remark. I'm not sure which name is better, dstroke
>(unicode-based) or dcroat (adobe-based). ConTeXt seems to have a
>strange mixture of unicode- and adobe- based names. "hungarumlaut" is
>adobe-based, while "diaeresis" is unicode-based for example. I don't
>want to introduce just another name, incompatible with any standards.
>  
>
on a rainy day we can sort it out and go unicode and use the adobe ones 
as synoyms

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Out of the seven possibilities I vote for \dstroke and leave the
>strange name (dcroat) to be handled by *.enc files only.
>  
>
i think that your ultimate satisfaction can come from this private regime: 

\starttext

\startregime[mojka]
  \dostepwiserecurse{127}{255}{1}
    {\expanded{\defineactivetoken\recurselevel\space}{\dstroke}}
\stopregime

\enableregime[mojka]

¡¢£ ¤¥¦§¨© ª«¬­®¯°± ²³´µ¶·¸ ¹º»¼½¾ ¿ÀÁÂà ÄÅ ÆÇÈÉ ÊË ÌÍÎÏÐ
ÑÒÓÔ ÕÖ×ØÙÚ Û ÜÝÞßàáâ ãäåæçè éêëì íîï ðñòóôõ ö÷øùúûüýþÿ
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\stoptext
 
Hans 

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [Fwd: Re: ec encoding and tcaron]

[Hans Hagen]

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Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>Guess why dstroke/dcroat is named dbar in the ec encoding ... 
>
>  
>
guess: because no one was involved who knew better than that

>And I forgot yet another possibility in my list of names for that
>single stupid letter that seems to be used nowhere except in Croatian
>and Vietnamese ... \dj. Plus the one which should be used as a
>"fallback" in Slovenian:
>    \definecharacter dstroke {d\zcaron}
>  
>
that's an easy one ... and could be within a boring background run ...  
see attachment:

\useencoding[fsl]

\starttext
  \dstroke \language[sl] \dstroke
\stoptext

of course only visible when the fall bakc is in use (so for testing, 
replace default by ec)

>Out of the seven possibilities I vote for \dstroke and leave the
>strange name (dcroat) to be handled by *.enc files only.
>  
>
dcroat is only in enco-def as fallback (does not hurt) 

Hans 

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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modules.pdf

[luigi.scarso]

Fix partial contents; see
http://contextgarden.net/User:Luigi.scarso/modules.pdf

luigi

modules.pdf

[luigi.scarso]

Update to latest distro;see
http://contextgarden.net/User:Luigi.scarso/modules.pdf


luigi

modules.pdf

[luigi.scarso]

I discover (~8 years later)
http://www.pragma-ade.com/dir/general/sources/modules.pdf

I think it is a useful pdf: Is there any tool to generate it ?


luigi