Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Brooks Moses]

I've been updating the Footnotes page on the Wiki, and have a few questions 
as a result:

1.) Footnotes in footnotes in footnotes.  Are these possible?  When I do 
something like \footnote{A note\footnote{With a note\footnote{With a third 
footnote.}.}.}, only the first two notes are included in the footnote 
block, though the number for the third footnote is generated.

2.) Footnotes as marginals.  There was text on the Wiki saying that it's 
possible to typeset footnotes as marginals, but I can't find any references 
to this in the ConTeXt manual.  Am I missing something?  I know it's 
possible to do marginal notes, but those don't get footnote numbers, and so 
aren't the same thing....

3.) Footnotes placed without line breaks.  If one does a number of short 
footnotes, they get set like so:

   1. One
   2. Two
   3. Three
   4. Four

Is it possible to have them set without line breaks, like this?  If so, how?

   1. One    2. Two    3. Three    4. Four

4.) Footnote alignment.  Currently, footnotes are set so that the left end 
of the text of the footnote is aligned with the left edge of the text, and 
the footnote number hangs out into the margin.  Is it possible to change 
this?  (For instance, suppose I would like the number aligned to the 
text-edge, and then a fixed-width space, and then the text?)

5.) In LaTeX, there's a means to place a footnote (and generate a number 
and reference for the footnote) without typesetting the number in the text, 
in order to handle cases where the "real" footnote mechanism breaks 
down.  Is it possible to do this in ConTeXt?

6. When I reference a footnote's number using \note[ref], I get the number 
typeset as a superscript.  This looks a little odd to me in sentences such 
as "See footnote \note[ref] on the previous page" -- it would look better 
if the number (or symbol) were typeset in the normal font.  Is there 
another way to reference it so as to do that?

7. What does the "location=high" in \setupfootnotes do?

Thanks!
- Brooks

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Brooks Moses]

Replying to myself (sorry); I discovered the answer to one of these 
questions already.

At 01:39 PM 9/3/2005, I wrote:
>6. When I reference a footnote's number using \note[ref], I get the number 
>typeset as a superscript.  This looks a little odd to me in sentences such 
>as "See footnote \note[ref] on the previous page" -- it would look better 
>if the number (or symbol) were typeset in the normal font.  Is there 
>another way to reference it so as to do that?

It is, indeed, possible to reference footnotes in the usual way for other 
references, with \in{}[] and \at{}[], and they act as one would expect.

(I haven't investigated whether \note[] works for non-footnote references. :)

- Brooks

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Brooks,


Brooks Moses wrote:
> I've been updating the Footnotes page on the Wiki, and have a few 
> questions as a result:
> 
> 1.) Footnotes in footnotes in footnotes.  Are these possible?  When I do 
> something like \footnote{A note\footnote{With a note\footnote{With a 
> third footnote.}.}.}, only the first two notes are included in the 
> footnote block, though the number for the third footnote is generated.

The wiki text was a bit too enthousiastic, I believe.

 From some experimentation, it appears that you can have
* footnotes in footnotes,
* other (user-defined) notes in footnotes,
* notes in footnotes in footnotes,
* footnotes in notes,
* notes of different types inside eachother

but not:
* footnotes in footnotes in footnotes
* notes in notes of the same type
* footnotes in notes in notes


> 2.) Footnotes as marginals.  There was text on the Wiki saying that it's 
> possible to typeset footnotes as marginals, but I can't find any 
> references to this in the ConTeXt manual.  Am I missing something?  I 
> know it's possible to do marginal notes, but those don't get footnote 
> numbers, and so aren't the same thing....

There is an example in core-not.tex, but it doesn't work :-(

   \definenote
     [mynote]
     [way=bypage,location=,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=,factor=0]
   \setuplayout
     [backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
   \setuptexttexts[margin][\vbox to
     \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}][]

   \starttext
   \dorecurse{10}{test \mynote{one one one one one one}
                  \input zapf \mynote{one one one one one one} }
   \stoptext

(nothing at all shows, see also the bug below, at point 7.)

> 3.) Footnotes placed without line breaks.  If one does a number of short 
> footnotes, they get set like so:
> 
>   1. One
>   2. Two
>   3. Three
>   4. Four
> 
> Is it possible to have them set without line breaks, like this?  If so, 
> how?
> 
>   1. One    2. Two    3. Three    4. Four

At least, you can do  \setupfootnotes[n=4], that typesets in
four columns. The actual footnotes are desciptions, perhaps these
can be tricked in appearing in-line themselves?

> 4.) Footnote alignment.  Currently, footnotes are set so that the left 
> end of the text of the footnote is aligned with the left edge of the 
> text, and the footnote number hangs out into the margin.  Is it possible 
> to change this?  (For instance, suppose I would like the number aligned 
> to the text-edge, and then a fixed-width space, and then the text?)

Use

   \setupfootnotedefinition[location=left]

See \setupdescriptions for other possible options.

> 5.) In LaTeX, there's a means to place a footnote (and generate a number 
> and reference for the footnote) without typesetting the number in the 
> text, in order to handle cases where the "real" footnote mechanism 
> breaks down.  Is it possible to do this in ConTeXt?

Does \footnote[-]{An unnumbered note} do what you want?

> 7. What does the "location=high" in \setupfootnotes do?

This is supposed to be a baseline correction for the bottom of the
page, I think. What it actually seems to do is make the footnote
texts disappear, like in this example:

   \setupfootnotes[location=high]
   \starttext
   \dorecurse{4}{\input zapf \footnote{one one one one one one}\endgraf }
   \stoptext

looks like a bug :-(

Taco

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Brooks Moses]

At 02:40 AM 9/4/2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>Brooks Moses wrote:
>>5.) In LaTeX, there's a means to place a footnote (and generate a number 
>>and reference for the footnote) without typesetting the number in the 
>>text, in order to handle cases where the "real" footnote mechanism breaks 
>>down.  Is it possible to do this in ConTeXt?
>
>Does \footnote[-]{An unnumbered note} do what you want?

Not quite, as it doesn't generate a number I can reference.  What I'm 
thinking of is something that does what \nomarkfootnote does in the 
following example:

   A sentence\footnote{With a note\note[footB].}.\nomarkfootnote[footB]{And
   another.}

should create the same output as nesting the footnotes:

   A sentence\footnote{With a note\footnote[footB]{And another.}.}.

That is, \nomarkfootnote[ref] produces the same footnote as \footnote[ref], 
complete with an automatically-generated number that can be recalled with 
\note[ref] or the like.  The only difference is that, like \footnote[-], it 
doesn't put anything in the running text.

What this is useful for is for placing footnotes "in" things where one 
normally can't place footnotes, by only putting the \note part there, and 
the \nomarkfootnote in a convenient piece of nearby text.  This would 
provide a way of solving the footnotes-in-footnotes-in...in-footnotes 
problem, and also might be useful in some cases with figures and tables and 
other floats.

- Brooks

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Christopher Creutzig]

Brooks Moses wrote:
> Not quite, as it doesn't generate a number I can reference.  What I'm
> thinking of is something that does what \nomarkfootnote does in the
> following example:
> 
>   A sentence\footnote{With a note\note[footB].}.\nomarkfootnote[footB]{And
>   another.}

\starttext
A sentence\footnote{With a note.\note[footB]}\footnotetext[footB]{And
another.}
\stoptext

works for me, assuming I interpreted your wish correctly.


Christopher

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Brooks Moses]

At 10:40 AM 9/9/2005, Christopher Creutzig wrote:
>Brooks Moses wrote:
> > Not quite, as it doesn't generate a number I can reference.  What I'm
> > thinking of is something that does what \nomarkfootnote does in the
> > following example:
> >
> >   A sentence\footnote{With a note\note[footB].}.\nomarkfootnote[footB]{And
> >   another.}
>
>\starttext
>A sentence\footnote{With a note.\note[footB]}\footnotetext[footB]{And
>another.}
>\stoptext
>
>works for me, assuming I interpreted your wish correctly.

You did, indeed, interpret my wish correctly.  Thanks!

Unfortunately, this is buggy when faced with a more complicated example -- 
though I'm not sure whether the bug is in ConTeXt, or if it's because we're 
not using \footnotetext correctly.  Consider the following:

   \starttext
   This%
   \footnote(Or that\note[footB], if you prefer.}%
   \footnotetext[footB]{Or possibly even the other\note[footC].}%
   \footnotetext[footC]{It could be something entirely different.}
   is a sentence with nested footnotes\note[footB]\note[footC].
   \stoptext

The footnotes themselves are numbered properly: 1, 2, 3.  However, the 
references are not -- the \note[footC] reference within the second footnote 
produces a superscript 2 rather than a superscript 3 -- and the references 
to \note[footB] and \note[footC] at the end of the text both produce 
superscript 3's!

- Brooks

Re: Some Footnote Questions (from the Wiki)

[Hans Hagen]

Brooks Moses wrote:

> At 10:40 AM 9/9/2005, Christopher Creutzig wrote:
>
>> Brooks Moses wrote:
>> > Not quite, as it doesn't generate a number I can reference.  What I'm
>> > thinking of is something that does what \nomarkfootnote does in the
>> > following example:
>> >
>> >   A sentence\footnote{With a 
>> note\note[footB].}.\nomarkfootnote[footB]{And
>> >   another.}
>>
>> \starttext
>> A sentence\footnote{With a note.\note[footB]}\footnotetext[footB]{And
>> another.}
>> \stoptext
>>
>> works for me, assuming I interpreted your wish correctly.
>
>
> You did, indeed, interpret my wish correctly.  Thanks!
>
> Unfortunately, this is buggy when faced with a more complicated 
> example -- though I'm not sure whether the bug is in ConTeXt, or if 
> it's because we're not using \footnotetext correctly.  Consider the 
> following:
>
>   \starttext
>   This%
>   \footnote(Or that\note[footB], if you prefer.}%
>   \footnotetext[footB]{Or possibly even the other\note[footC].}%
>   \footnotetext[footC]{It could be something entirely different.}
>   is a sentence with nested footnotes\note[footB]\note[footC].
>   \stoptext
>
> The footnotes themselves are numbered properly: 1, 2, 3.  However, the 
> references are not -- the \note[footC] reference within the second 
> footnote produces a superscript 2 rather than a superscript 3 -- and 
> the references to \note[footB] and \note[footC] at the end of the text 
> both produce superscript 3's!

well, we adapt the definition of \notesymbol (i've forgotten why the 
extra if is there)

\starttext

This \footnote{A: Or that b:\in[footB], if you prefer.}
\footnotetext[footB]{B: Or possibly even the other c:\in[footC].}
\footnotetext[footC]{C: It could be something entirely different.}
is a sentence with nested footnotes b:\in[footB] and c:\in[footC].


\def\donotesymbol[#1][#2]%
  {\bgroup
   \ifnotesenabled
     \def\currentnote{#1}%
     \ifsecondargument
%        \ifx\lastnotesymbol\relax
         \unskip
         \gotobox{\dodonotesymbol\currenttextreference}[#2]%
%        \else
%          \lastnotesymbol
%        \fi
     \else
       \lastnotesymbol
     \fi
   \fi
   \egroup}

\page

This \footnote{AA: Or that b:\note[footBB], if you prefer.}
\footnotetext[footBB]{BB: Or possibly even the other c:\note[footCC].}
\footnotetext[footCC]{CC: It could be something entirely different.}
is a sentence with nested footnotes b:\note[footBB] and c:\note[footCC].

\stoptext

Hans 

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