From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/23868 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mari Voipio Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: beginners manual Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: <438AEE22.205@iki.fi> References: <43824445.4000905@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1133178478 31706 80.91.229.2 (28 Nov 2005 11:47:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Nov 28 12:47:50 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EghT8-0004Dn-Hl for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555891281D; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:50 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05354-03-9; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:46 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC79127B3; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:46 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC919127B3 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:44 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05354-03-8 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:43 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail.kpatents.com (mail.kpatents.com [195.170.128.67]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 44C0C1279B for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:42 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: (qmail 2829 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2005 11:46:42 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.100.169?) (192.168.100.169) by mail.kpatents.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2005 11:46:42 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Original-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users In-Reply-To: <43824445.4000905@wxs.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:23868 Archived-At: Hans Hagen wrote: > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual Yippee! :-) Having read one printout to shreds I really appreciate this... > - what should go in As has been suggested here to an extent, there should be attachments (or separate smaller manuals) on how to install and update ConTeXt in different operating systems (Mac OS 10.4 was a breeze even for a new Mac user, Windows is a great pain in the butt every time; still running TeXLive 2004 ConTeXt on this machine because I can't afford to break anything). As I probably should do it for work anyway, I'm willing to write the part for MsWinConTeXt (for Win 2000/XP) as long as I get at least until the end of the year. I also suggest writing a separate set of instructions for those people who migrate from LaTeX (like my brother did) and for those who migrate from MSWord (like I did) or Apple's Pages (or similar word processing software). I strongly feel that the beginners' manual per se should be for ALL beginners and shouldn't refer to either Word or LaTeX. Again, as I probably have to write it at some point anyway, I'm willing to chip in for the MS Word part and I might even be able to write a draft for others to fill in with. > - what should be updated Tables is what would be really useful. This far I've only used tabulate and \table, but I have a faint idea that "natural tables" would be the real solution to my problems - but finding info on them has been so challenging that I've given up this far. I also personally feel that a totally different approach to the fonts chapter would make my life a lot easier. I'm sure this partly relates to my Windows background, but for example the term "font family" was totally alien to me when I started using ConTeXt. And of course, much of the first weeks with ConTeXt (in Windows) were overshadowed by the important question of "how to make the fonts and font switches work at all". I still don't understand the system at all, so even though I've successfully gotten a few of the TeXLive fonts to work, I always have to refer to my older ConTeXt documents to copy the code that has worked at least at some stage. [In Word, you switch the font of the Normal style from Times New Roman to Century Schoolbook with about three clicks of the mouse - in ConTeXt the same may be a three-hour or three-day operation, at least with my not-even-intermediate skills... I love ConTeXt, I hate fonts.] The order of things in the beginners' manual has often frustrated me as I feel that "same stuff" is split in different places all over manual. I have not dealt with math, but when I taught word processing with Word, these would be things that come up in the very, very beginning: - how to change the font (family, size, emphasis) - how to change the paragraph (line spacing, paragraph spacing, indents, alignment) - how to print preview i.e. see the document as laid out on paper (in ConTeXt this would be "how to compile and view; maybe put more detailed instructions into the ConTeXt in Unix/Linux/Mac/Windows attachment/manual and just refer to these) - how to change the margins [I had REAL problems with this in ConTeXt, the whole context is so different; but this should probably go into the "ConTeXt for word processor users" chapter] [- how to save and retrieve a document; not really an issue with ConTeXt, I suspect all users are this much computer literate] Next step is often additional text features: - headings (in Word, "header" is only top part of page, the section/chapter titles are called headings) - lists (i.e. itemize in ConTeXt) - page numbers (many Word users never use their header/footer for anything else!) - page breaking - hyphenation And, as many people migrate to ConTeXt when having to deal with large documents and/or math, the next step for many would probably be: - figures (i.e. graphics) - tables - footnotes - header & footer - formulae, units, math otherwise - special characters! - registers, references - interactivity? If ConTeXt comes nowadays with modules, those should probably get a more prominent position in the manual and obviously a lot more detailed explanation than the current one. If I've understood the concept correctly, the modules are comparable to Word templates, but this far the information has been so split that I haven't bothered to piece it together to actually even try to use a module, not to talk about making one (although that bit probably belongs to the big manual). > - who will participate (in translation) I can do Finnish, it shouldn't take that long once the English original is ready. A bunch of LaTeX stuff exists in Finnish and that should help with the terminology (should probably try to stick to existing stuff) and I can possibly enlist brother to review what I've done, if there're no other Finnish speakers on this list. I'll also be quite happy to proof the Swedish manual but as there are native speakers of Swedish on this list, I'd rather leave the actual translation work to them (especially when I use Swedish as spoken in Finland, which sometimes makes a difference). > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) Yes, definitely. Having now worked with translations of originally English ConTeXt document to German and Spanish I've had to look for answers for the following problems: - hyphenation (how to turn it on and how to prevent it) - labels in captions and references (how to switch language, how to adjust) - regiments - character sets (especially non-Latin stuff) - punctuation rules (for example one vs. two spaces after period) Sometimes I'd really, really love to have a list of what characters and languages ConTeXt is/is not capable of coping with, just a quick reference would help... A few thoughts from the Windows front, Mari