Struggling with Old Style numerals!

Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

  Dear ConTeXt users,

Currently I'm busy typesetting a book using ConTeXt. I use the Computer 
Modern (Serif, SansSerif and Italic) free font. I don't know much about 
the details of typescripts and typefaces, it's fairly complex and not 
very clear to me. The documents "Fonts in ConTeXt" and "TeXFont 
Explained" add even more to my confusion concerning fonts, sorry!

I'd like to know whether it is possible to change all the 'normal' 
numerals to old-style ones throughout the entire book. I need serif, 
sansserif and italic old-style numerals!

Frankly speaking, I don't even know whether anything like that is 
possible with either the Computer or Latin Modern font?

Thanks!

-- 
Geert C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[Adam Lindsay]

G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:

> I'd like to know whether it is possible to change all the 'normal' 
> numerals to old-style ones throughout the entire book. I need serif, 
> sansserif and italic old-style numerals!
> 
> Frankly speaking, I don't even know whether anything like that is 
> possible with either the Computer or Latin Modern font?

For Latin Modern, look in the mail archive:
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20050616.125032.05b714af.en.html


-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

Adam Lindsay wrote:

>G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'd like to know whether it is possible to change all the 'normal' 
>>numerals to old-style ones throughout the entire book. I need serif, 
>>sansserif and italic old-style numerals!
>>
>>...
>>    
>>
>
>For Latin Modern, look in the mail archive:
>http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20050616.125032.05b714af.en.html
>
>
>  
>
Thanks for your suggestion!

But sorry, I don't get any old-style numerals when I run the example as 
shown in this link. Now the problem is that I don't know why it doesn't 
work.

The log file of the texexec run doesn't give any hints either! I feel 
very uncomfortable now, because I'm completely dependent on advice given 
by font guru's!

That's my main problem with TeX, LaTeX and ConTeXt, font handling is 
just terrible, when one doesn't understand the underlying principles! 
I've tried to read the ConTeXt manuals dealing with fonts. Unfortunately 
this didn't help at all, it has added even more to the confusion, sorry!

It seems that this mail is also a desperate call for up-to-date 
documentation regarding this topic!

Regards,
    Gerard

-- 
Gerard C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[Adam Lindsay]

G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
> Adam Lindsay wrote:
>> For Latin Modern, look in the mail archive:
>> http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20050616.125032.05b714af.en.html
>>
> Thanks for your suggestion!
> 
> But sorry, I don't get any old-style numerals when I run the example as 
> shown in this link. Now the problem is that I don't know why it doesn't 
> work.

Really? Try this minimal, complete example:

\usetypescript [modern][\defaultencoding]
\usetypescript [map] [latin-modern-os] [\defaultencoding]

\setupbodyfont[modern]
\starttext
hello world 123
\ss 456 world hello
\rmit hello world 789
\stoptext

Do you have a recent ConTeXt? Do you have an up-to-date latin modern 
install?
(Most advice/ConTeXt stuff depends on at least those two things, here.)

adam
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

Adam Lindsay wrote:

>......
>
>Do you have a recent ConTeXt? Do you have an up-to-date latin modern 
>install?
>(Most advice/ConTeXt stuff depends on at least those two things, here.)
>
>adam
>  
>
Hoi Adam,

What do you call recent? I was using TeXLive 2004, and the ConTeXt 
version available from this CD. Maybe that's already ancient, but good 
enough for me!

I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other 
problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.

I assume that ConTeXt is setup properly after the TeXLive installation! 
After setting my PATH correctly I issued the command texexec from the 
command line.

The Perl script texexec doesn't launch!! I get the following Perl error 
message:

Can't locate Digest/MD5.pm in @INC (@INC contains: 
/usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.6.1 /usr/lib/perl5 
/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/share/perl/5.6.1 
/usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at 
/usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at 
/usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.

This missing MD5.pm is present in the directory: 
/usr/local/texlive/2005/xemtex/perl/lib

So what should be my next move?

Regards,
    Gerard

-- 
Gerard C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

TL2005 perl problems [was: Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!]

[Adam Lindsay]

G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other 
> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
>...
> The Perl script texexec doesn't launch!! I get the following Perl error 
> message:
> 
> Can't locate Digest/MD5.pm in @INC (@INC contains: 
> /usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.6.1 /usr/lib/perl5 
> /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/share/perl/5.6.1 
> /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at 
> /usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at 
> /usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
> 
> This missing MD5.pm is present in the directory: 
> /usr/local/texlive/2005/xemtex/perl/lib
> 
> So what should be my next move?

I don't use TeXLive anymore, so I don't know. Sounds like a problem 
someone on the list has encountered, though!
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: TL2005 perl problems [was: Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!]

[Hans Hagen]

Adam Lindsay wrote:
> G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
>   
>> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other 
>> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
>> ...
>> The Perl script texexec doesn't launch!! I get the following Perl error 
>> message:
>>
>> Can't locate Digest/MD5.pm in @INC (@INC contains: 
>> /usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.6.1 /usr/lib/perl5 
>> /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/share/perl/5.6.1 
>> /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at 
>> /usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
>> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at 
>> /usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
>>
>> This missing MD5.pm is present in the directory: 
>> /usr/local/texlive/2005/xemtex/perl/lib
>>
>> So what should be my next move?
>>     
>
> I don't use TeXLive anymore, so I don't know. Sounds like a problem 
> someone on the list has encountered, though!
>   
normally this points to a conflict between an installed perl and one in 
tex live (the windows version ships with a perl dll);

- if you have installed perl, remove the instance in tex live
- updating your installed perl may also help

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: TL2005 perl problems [was: Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!]

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

Hans Hagen wrote:

>Adam Lindsay wrote:
>  
>
>>G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other 
>>>problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
>>>...
>>>The Perl script texexec doesn't launch!! I get the following Perl error 
>>>message:
>>>
>>>Can't locate Digest/MD5.pm in @INC (@INC contains: 
>>>/usr/local/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.6.1 /usr/lib/perl5 
>>>/usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1 /usr/share/perl/5.6.1 
>>>/usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at 
>>>/usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
>>>BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at 
>>>/usr/local/texlive/2005/texmf-dist/scripts/context/perl/texexec.pl line 54.
>>>
>>>This missing MD5.pm is present in the directory: 
>>>/usr/local/texlive/2005/xemtex/perl/lib
>>>
>>>So what should be my next move?
>>>    
>>>      
>>>
>>I don't use TeXLive anymore, so I don't know. Sounds like a problem 
>>someone on the list has encountered, though!
>>  
>>    
>>
>normally this points to a conflict between an installed perl and one in 
>tex live (the windows version ships with a perl dll);
>
>- if you have installed perl, remove the instance in tex live
>- updating your installed perl may also help
>
>Hans
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>......
>
>  
>
Dear Hans & Adam,

Thanks!

It was indeed my installation of perl on my Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 "Woody" 
rev2 that was simply incomplete! After having installed the Digest 
module texexec did run!

Adam. after having solved the problem with Perl, your hints to use 
oldfigures in combination with the Latin Modern font worked with TeXLive 
2005!

A do have a final question about fonts in ConTeXt. Most of the time it 
suffices to use the pre-defined typefaces that come with ConTeXt, but 
what if one wants to alter them slightly? Well, one can try reading the 
manual Fonts in ConTeXt and TeXfont Explained! But to me those manuals 
are too difficult to read. So perhaps I should refrain from considering 
to modify typefaces and leave that to the experts. But I'd like to 
understand a bit more about the fonts stuff in ConTeXt.

Maybe a very, very basic description of typescripts, fonts and typefaces 
will do a good job for the less advanced ConTeXt users?

Regards,
    Gerard

-- 
Geert C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

Re: TL2005 perl problems [was: Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!]

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Mar 17, 2006, at 11:31 AM, G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:

> Maybe a very, very basic description of typescripts, fonts and  
> typefaces
> will do a good job for the less advanced ConTeXt users?
>
Well, there's some info around on the web that you may want to have a  
look at:

http://home.salamander.com/~wmcclain/context-help.html#selectfont- 
typescript (a bit dated, but still correct and very useful)

http://www.tug.org/pracjourn/2006-1/wierda/wierda.pdf (have a look at  
section 6, that should be of interest)

this may get you started.

HTH

Thomas

Re: TL2005 perl problems [was: Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!]

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

  Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

>....
>
>Well, there's some info around on the web that you may want to have a  
>look at:
>
>http://home.salamander.com/~wmcclain/context-help.html#selectfont- 
>typescript (a bit dated, but still correct and very useful)
>
>http://www.tug.org/pracjourn/2006-1/wierda/wierda.pdf (have a look at  
>section 6, that should be of interest)
>
>this may get you started.
>
>HTH
>
>Thomas
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>  
>
Hoi Thomas,

Thanks for your suggestions, and I'll certainly have a closer look at 
this fonts stuff!

Regards,

-- 
Gerard C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 3/15/06, G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
> Adam Lindsay wrote:
>
> >......
> >
> >Do you have a recent ConTeXt? Do you have an up-to-date latin modern
> >install?
> >(Most advice/ConTeXt stuff depends on at least those two things, here.)
> >
> >adam
> >
> >
> Hoi Adam,
>
> What do you call recent? I was using TeXLive 2004, and the ConTeXt
> version available from this CD. Maybe that's already ancient, but good
> enough for me!

TeXLive 2004? Hans would probably call it ancient. If it is (was) OK
for you, it's no problem, but in such cases (when you need an advice)
you'll probably be left on your own if you want to keep using the old
distribution. Latin Modern was last updated in November 2005 (I don't
know if they're included in the last TeX live or not) and the latest
ConTeXt is from February.

> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other
> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
...
> So what should be my next move?

I don't know much about TeX live (the only time I tried to install it
it was broken). Under linux I often use this one (if nothing else, no
special privileges are needed for "installing" it):
http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/install/linuxtex.zip

You just unpack it somewhere and then put something like
    /path-to-new-tex/ /path-to-new-tex/setuptex
into the file which is executed each time the shell is started.
See the instructions. If you're in the dir where setuptex resides, you
have to say
    . setuptex
then make the formats (only the first time) and start using it.

An alternative is to follow the installation instructions on the wiki,
but I have absolutely no experience with that on linux.

Mojca

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

  Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>...
>  
>
>
>TeXLive 2004? Hans would probably call it ancient. If it is (was) OK
>....
>
>  
>
>>I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other
>>problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
>>    
>>
>...
>  
>
>>So what should be my next move?
>>    
>>
>
>I don't know much about TeX live (the only time I tried to install it
>it was broken). Under linux I often use this one (if nothing else, no
>special privileges are needed for "installing" it):
>http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/install/linuxtex.zip
>
>.....
>
>An alternative is to follow the installation instructions on the wiki,
>but I have absolutely no experience with that on linux.
>
>Mojca
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>  
>
Dear Mojca,

Downloading the most recent ConTeXt is not really an option when one 
uses a slow analog telephone line (small bandwidth) when accessing the 
Internet. So I prefer to use the TeXLive CD's, but that's a bit old, yes.

Installing TeXLive on my Linux based PC never really causes any real 
problems. Formerly I used mainly SuSE or RedHat, but I turned to Debian. 
This requires a bit more fine-tuning!

Regards,

-- 
Gerard C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl

Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[Hans Hagen]

G.C.H.M. Verhaag wrote:
>   Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>   
>> ...
>>  
>>
>>
>> TeXLive 2004? Hans would probably call it ancient. If it is (was) OK
>> ....
>>
>>  
>>
>>     
>>> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid of other
>>> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened.
>>>    
>>>
>>>       
>> ...
>>  
>>
>>     
>>> So what should be my next move?
>>>    
>>>
>>>       
>> I don't know much about TeX live (the only time I tried to install it
>> it was broken). Under linux I often use this one (if nothing else, no
>> special privileges are needed for "installing" it):
>> http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/install/linuxtex.zip
>>
>> .....
>>
>> An alternative is to follow the installation instructions on the wiki,
>> but I have absolutely no experience with that on linux.
>>
>> Mojca
>> _______________________________________________
>> ntg-context mailing list
>> ntg-context@ntg.nl
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>
>>  
>>
>>     
> Dear Mojca,
>
> Downloading the most recent ConTeXt is not really an option when one 
> uses a slow analog telephone line (small bandwidth) when accessing the 
> Internet. So I prefer to use the TeXLive CD's, but that's a bit old, yes.
>   
the context zip is not that large (<3 meg)

unfortunately the latest tex live has problems with context and lm
> Installing TeXLive on my Linux based PC never really causes any real 
> problems. Formerly I used mainly SuSE or RedHat, but I turned to Debian. 
>   
i only test on suse (which we have run here for ages) so i cannot help 
there
> This requires a bit more fine-tuning!
>   
Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

TeXlive 2005 and ConText (was: Struggling with Old Style numerals!)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 27 mars 06 à 13:55, Hans Hagen a écrit :

>>>> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid  
>>>> of other
>>>> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened
>
> unfortunately the latest tex live has problems with context and lm

Is there any simple way to solve these problems?
Texlive is an important distribution, and it only releases
once a year.
So we have to wait arounf end 2006 before having a "Context friend"
version of TeXlive? :-(

Maurice,

Re: TeXlive 2005 and ConText (was: Struggling with Old Style numerals!)

[John R. Culleton]

On Monday 27 March 2006 14:59, Maurice Diamantini wrote:
> Le 27 mars 06 à 13:55, Hans Hagen a écrit :
> >>>> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid
> >>>> of other
> >>>> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened
> >
> > unfortunately the latest tex live has problems with context and lm
>
> Is there any simple way to solve these problems?
> Texlive is an important distribution, and it only releases
> once a year.
> So we have to wait arounf end 2006 before having a "Context friend"
> version of TeXlive? :-(
>
> Maurice,
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context


I use TeXlive 2005  on my Slackware Linux system with no problems
other than the usual font struggles. What problems are you
having? My TeXLive disk was created in December. Perhaps you have an
earlier one. 
-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

Re: TeXlive 2005 and ConText

[Hans Hagen]

Maurice Diamantini wrote:
> Le 27 mars 06 � 13:55, Hans Hagen a �crit :
>
>   
>>>>> I've removed that one and installed TeXLive 2005! I was afraid  
>>>>> of other
>>>>> problems, and indeed that's exactly what happened
>>>>>           
>> unfortunately the latest tex live has problems with context and lm
>>     
>
> Is there any simple way to solve these problems?
> Texlive is an important distribution, and it only releases
> once a year.
> So we have to wait arounf end 2006 before having a "Context friend"
> version of TeXlive? :-(
>   
yes, but one can easily install the latest context zip alongside tex live (there may even be updates for lm, iwona, kurier etc so those using such fonts need to update occasionally anyway) 

Hans 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Struggling with Old Style numerals!

[G.C.H.M. Verhaag]

  Hans Hagen wrote:

>...
>  
>
>>          
>>    
>>
>>Dear Mojca,
>>
>>Downloading the most recent ConTeXt is not really an option when one 
>>uses a slow analog telephone line (small bandwidth) when accessing the 
>>Internet. So I prefer to use the TeXLive CD's, but that's a bit old, yes.
>>  
>>    
>>
>the context zip is not that large (<3 meg)
>
>unfortunately the latest tex live has problems with context and lm
>  
>
>> ....
>>  
>>    
>>
>Hans
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>...
>
>  
>
Hans,

What kind of problems are you referring at when it comes to ConTeXt and 
LM fonts on TeXLive 2005?

Regards,

    Gerard

-- 
G.C.H.M. Verhaag
St. Jorisstraat 29
5954 AN Beesel
NETHERLANDS

Tel.: +31-(0)774742493, E-mail: verhaaggchm@ision.nl