* treat framed and externalfigure as characters
@ 2006-05-09 16:11 Peter Münster
2006-05-09 19:22 ` Taco Hoekwater
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2006-05-09 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hello Taco and Hans,
in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
you write
"Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
vertical mode."
Could you give me an example please?
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-09 16:11 treat framed and externalfigure as characters Peter Münster
@ 2006-05-09 19:22 ` Taco Hoekwater
2006-05-09 20:19 ` Peter Münster
2006-05-09 20:53 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2006-05-09 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
Peter Münster wrote:
> Hello Taco and Hans,
>
> in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
> you write
> "Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
> vertical mode."
>
> Could you give me an example please?
For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
goes like this:
\def\startrecipe[#1]%
{\getparameters[Recipe]
[Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
\framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
\externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
{\bf\RecipeSummary}%
\blank }
I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I
certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
I have been payed for to do.
Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
the top of your document(s).
For Hans: Peter would like an implicit \dontleavehmode added to
\framed and \externalfigure, so they behave more like characters
(not like \hboxes).
Cheers, Taco
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-09 19:22 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2006-05-09 20:19 ` Peter Münster
2006-05-09 21:07 ` Hans Hagen
2006-05-09 20:53 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2006-05-09 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Tue, 9 May 2006, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Peter Münster wrote:
> > Hello Taco and Hans,
> >
> > in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
> > you write
> > "Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
> > vertical mode."
> >
> > Could you give me an example please?
>
> For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
> goes like this:
>
> \def\startrecipe[#1]%
> {\getparameters[Recipe]
> [Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
> \framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
> \externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
> {\bf\RecipeSummary}%
> \blank }
>
> I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I
> certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
> would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
> I have been payed for to do.
Hello Taco,
I understand and accept your arguments. Even for me, it's no more problem
to add here and there a \dontleavehmode, since I know it now. But for a
beginner and a user without ambition to become a ConTeXt expert, the actual
behaviour is annoying. He just sees a line break, where he does not expect
it. There is a fundamental difference between
bla \framed{bla} bla
and
\framed{bla} bla bla
that is not understandable.
It's much more straightforward and clear to add a \par (and perhaps
\noindentation) if you really want this line break (for example in your
macro \startrecipe).
> Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
> the top of your document(s).
Perhaps one day, I would like to convert some of my colleagues from M$-Word
to ConTeXt, but if I have to teach them about things like \dontleavehmode
there is no need for further efforts. So, such a switch would be very
welcome (I would put it into cont-sys.tex)!
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-09 19:22 ` Taco Hoekwater
2006-05-09 20:19 ` Peter Münster
@ 2006-05-09 20:53 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2006-05-09 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Peter M�nster wrote:
>
>> Hello Taco and Hans,
>>
>> in http://context.literatesolutions.com/collector/89
>> you write
>> "Both Hans and me have documents that depend on \framed staying in
>> vertical mode."
>>
>> Could you give me an example please?
>>
>
> For instance in a recipe booklet, where one of the macros
> goes like this:
>
> \def\startrecipe[#1]%
> {\getparameters[Recipe]
> [Title=,Summary=,Image=none,#1]% ..
> \framed{\tfd \RecipeTitle}%
> \externalfigure[\RecipeImage]%
> {\bf\RecipeSummary}%
> \blank }
>
> I am not saying that that is the best way to write macros (and I
> certainly do not do it like that anymore) but changing the behaviour
> would break quite a lot of my existing documents, including some
> I have been payed for to do.
>
> Maybe Hans is willing to add a global switch that you can set at
> the top of your document(s).
>
> For Hans: Peter would like an implicit \dontleavehmode added to
> \framed and \externalfigure, so they behave more like characters
> (not like \hboxes).
>
as you say, a dangerous feature that would break much (keep in mind that
\framed is used all over the place)
Hans
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-09 20:19 ` Peter Münster
@ 2006-05-09 21:07 ` Hans Hagen
2006-05-10 15:37 ` Peter Münster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2006-05-09 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
� wrote:
>
> I understand and accept your arguments. Even for me, it's no more problem
> to add here and there a \dontleavehmode, since I know it now. But for a
> beginner and a user without ambition to become a ConTeXt expert, the actual
> behaviour is annoying. He just sees a line break, where he does not expect
> it. There is a fundamental difference between
> bla \framed{bla} bla
> and
> \framed{bla} bla bla
> that is not understandable.
>
this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes
while to get accustomed to; a similar case is
{\bf whatever} rest of par
best put a \dontleavevmode or \strut in front if you want indentation
and related features to work
> Perhaps one day, I would like to convert some of my colleagues from M$-Word
> to ConTeXt, but if I have to teach them about things like \dontleavehmode
> there is no need for further efforts. So, such a switch would be very
> welcome (I would put it into cont-sys.tex)!
>
but then it would break other things and your collegues would scream about that
btw, there is \inframed for inline usage, or one could define a symbol
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-09 21:07 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2006-05-10 15:37 ` Peter Münster
2006-05-10 18:35 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2006-05-10 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Tue, 9 May 2006, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > There is a fundamental difference between
> > bla \framed{bla} bla
> > and
> > \framed{bla} bla bla
> > that is not understandable.
> >
> this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes
> while to get accustomed to; a similar case is
>
> {\bf whatever} rest of par
Hello Hans,
I tried this:
\setupindenting[big,yes]
\starttext
\input tufte
{\bf whatever} rest of par
\input tufte
\stoptext
But I don't see the problem... ?
> btw, there is \inframed for inline usage, or one could define a symbol
Thanks, I'll take a look at it.
Cheers, Peter
--
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: treat framed and externalfigure as characters
2006-05-10 15:37 ` Peter Münster
@ 2006-05-10 18:35 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2006-05-10 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
� wrote:
> On Tue, 9 May 2006, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>
>>> There is a fundamental difference between
>>> bla \framed{bla} bla
>>> and
>>> \framed{bla} bla bla
>>> that is not understandable.
>>>
>>>
>> this is the case for many more things and a tex speciality which takes
>> while to get accustomed to; a similar case is
>>
>> {\bf whatever} rest of par
>>
>
> Hello Hans,
> I tried this:
> \setupindenting[big,yes]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
>
> {\bf whatever} rest of par
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> But I don't see the problem... ?
>
it's just an example (bad one because i don't remember the cases)
think of
{\command ...} rest of par
\command ... rest of par
and possible interferences with special \everypar situations (par starts
in group or with command that itself does something that depends on the
h/v mode)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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2006-05-09 16:11 treat framed and externalfigure as characters Peter Münster
2006-05-09 19:22 ` Taco Hoekwater
2006-05-09 20:19 ` Peter Münster
2006-05-09 21:07 ` Hans Hagen
2006-05-10 15:37 ` Peter Münster
2006-05-10 18:35 ` Hans Hagen
2006-05-09 20:53 ` Hans Hagen
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