Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[wwl]

> The following produces a first page with p.1 on the right half, but
> a blank 2nd page:
> 
> \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
> 
> That looks okay, except for the blank 2nd page.

This makes sense only with duplex printing. So the second blank page 
is ok.

> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2UP]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
> 
> produces a two-page document:
> 
> p.1: |   | 1 |  (i.e. blank left half, and original p.1 on the right
> half)
> p.2: | 2 |   |  (i.e. original p.2 on left half, blank right half)

This is ok, too. Print it in duplex (flip over short side) fold it 
and you will see.

> So in case I've confused the directions of 2UP and 2DOWN, I also
> tried:
> 
> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2DOWN]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
> 
> It produces:
> 
> p.1: |   |   |
> p.2: | 2 |   |

This makes no sense.

> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2UP]
> \starttext
> \null\page
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
> 
> produces the following arrangement, which is close to what I
> expect:
> 
> p.1: |   | 1 |  (where the original p.1 is blank except for the page
> num)
> p.2: | 2 | 3 |

Ok, too. Print it.

Wolfgang

2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

I'm learning page rearrangements and cannot figure out why the following
small example doesn't work (it's similar to those in the cont-eni.pdf
manual, fig 3.22).  Here it produces a two-page, blank PDF file when I
run 'texexec --arrange p2'
[ConTeXt ver: 2006.08.08 21:51 fmt: 2006.8.8 int: english mes: english]

\setuppapersize[A5][A4]
\setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
\setuplayout[width=fit,margin=0pt]

\starttext

\input tufte
\input tufte

\stoptext

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Taco Hoekwater]

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> I'm learning page rearrangements and cannot figure out why the following
> small example doesn't work (it's similar to those in the cont-eni.pdf
> manual, fig 3.22).  Here it produces a two-page, blank PDF file when I
> run 'texexec --arrange p2'
> [ConTeXt ver: 2006.08.08 21:51 fmt: 2006.8.8 int: english mes: english]
> 
> \setuppapersize[A5][A4]
> \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
> \setuplayout[width=fit,margin=0pt]

Don't you need:

   \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
   \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]

Cheers, taco

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

Taco wrote:
> Don't you need:
> 
>    \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
>    \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
> 

The following produces a first page with p.1 on the right half, but a
blank 2nd page:

\setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
\setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
\starttext
\input tufte
\stoptext

That looks okay, except for the blank 2nd page.

But shouldn't it also work to impose two A5's on one landscape A4?
Here's a few more puzzles related to that.  If they are doing what
they are supposed to, let me know -- then I need to understand the
imposition system more.

\setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
\setuparranging[2UP]
\starttext
\input tufte
\page
\input tufte
\stoptext

produces a two-page document:

p.1: |   | 1 |  (i.e. blank left half, and original p.1 on the right half)
p.2: | 2 |   |  (i.e. original p.2 on left half, blank right half)

Shouldn't it produce

p.1: | 1 | 2 |

Here's my reasoning.  Two A5's (with their long directions vertical)
fit side by side to make one A4 in landscape orientation with text
running down along the short direction, which looks like 2-column text
done the hard way.  So, for a two-page original document, 2UP
arranging should produce either

p.1: | 1 | 2 |

or

p.1: | 2 | 1 |


So in case I've confused the directions of 2UP and 2DOWN, I also tried:

\setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
\setuparranging[2DOWN]
\starttext
\input tufte
\page
\input tufte
\stoptext

It produces:

p.1: |   |   |
p.2: | 2 |   |

The original p.1 disappeared, which I don't understand.  Also I don't
understand why it results in two output pages.

But this hack:

\setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
\setuparranging[2UP]
\starttext
\null\page
\input tufte
\page
\input tufte
\stoptext

produces the following arrangement, which is close to what I expect:

p.1: |   | 1 |  (where the original p.1 is blank except for the page num)
p.2: | 2 | 3 |

Once I understand what's going on, I'll wikify!

-Sanjoy

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Taco Hoekwater]

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> 
> Once I understand what's going on, I'll wikify!

Unfortunately, I do not understand it either. I wrote my
'dont you need..' based on symptoms, not on understanding.


Taco

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Willi Egger]

Hi Sanjoy,

I know, that I am a bit late with my reaction. Still I would like you to 
know, that there is nothing wrong with what you see in your examples.

Keep in mind, that 2UP and 2 DOWN are intended for booklet printing. Try 
to use

% \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,portrait]
% \setuparranging[2DOWN]
\setuppapersize[A5,portrait][A4,landscape]
\setuparranging[2UP]
\setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
% \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\starttext

\dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\blank[1cm]}
\page
\dorecurse{3}{\input tufte\blank[1cm]}
\stoptext

I suggest  to specify in the setuppapersize command the page orientation 
on the paper orientation. Then you won't need to rotate to page in the 
setuparranging command.
Specify the singlesided and doublesided mode with setuppagenumbering. Of 
course the doublesided alternative is not suitable for 2Down, because 
you get left and right pages above each other.
In order to see that the procedure works just fine use more pages e.g. 
with the dorecurse command.

Kind regards

Willi

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> Taco wrote:
>   
>> Don't you need:
>>
>>    \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
>>    \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
>>
>>     
>
> The following produces a first page with p.1 on the right half, but a
> blank 2nd page:
>
> \setuppapersize[A5,landscape][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2DOWN,rotated]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> That looks okay, except for the blank 2nd page.
>
> But shouldn't it also work to impose two A5's on one landscape A4?
> Here's a few more puzzles related to that.  If they are doing what
> they are supposed to, let me know -- then I need to understand the
> imposition system more.
>
> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2UP]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> produces a two-page document:
>
> p.1: |   | 1 |  (i.e. blank left half, and original p.1 on the right half)
> p.2: | 2 |   |  (i.e. original p.2 on left half, blank right half)
>
> Shouldn't it produce
>
> p.1: | 1 | 2 |
>
> Here's my reasoning.  Two A5's (with their long directions vertical)
> fit side by side to make one A4 in landscape orientation with text
> running down along the short direction, which looks like 2-column text
> done the hard way.  So, for a two-page original document, 2UP
> arranging should produce either
>
> p.1: | 1 | 2 |
>
> or
>
> p.1: | 2 | 1 |
>
>
> So in case I've confused the directions of 2UP and 2DOWN, I also tried:
>
> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2DOWN]
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> It produces:
>
> p.1: |   |   |
> p.2: | 2 |   |
>
> The original p.1 disappeared, which I don't understand.  Also I don't
> understand why it results in two output pages.
>
> But this hack:
>
> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> \setuparranging[2UP]
> \starttext
> \null\page
> \input tufte
> \page
> \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> produces the following arrangement, which is close to what I expect:
>
> p.1: |   | 1 |  (where the original p.1 is blank except for the page num)
> p.2: | 2 | 3 |
>
> Once I understand what's going on, I'll wikify!
>
> -Sanjoy
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>   

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

Dear Willi and Wolfgang,

Thanks for the explanations.  I understand ConTeXt arranging a bit
better now and am trying more (and longer) experiments.  I still can't
figure out this one, though.  Even printing doublesided, you don't
want p.1 to vanish:

> > \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
> > \setuparranging[2DOWN]
> > \starttext
> > \input tufte
> > \page
> > \input tufte
> > \stoptext
> > 
> > It produces:
> > 
> > p.1: |   |   |
> > p.2: | 2 |   |
> 
> This makes no sense.

(just tried it again to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating before.)

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Willi Egger]

Hi Sanjoy,

There is no halucination involved. In your code you try to typeset two 
A5 portrait beneeth each other on a A4 landscape, which is impossible. 
Try A3 landscape and you will
see. - When experimenting with short texts as tufte I usually use 
\showframe.

By the way if you want to typeset A5 on a A4 landscape without intending 
to make a booklet, then you can use setuparranging[2SIDE]

Kind regards

Willi

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> Dear Willi and Wolfgang,
>
> Thanks for the explanations.  I understand ConTeXt arranging a bit
> better now and am trying more (and longer) experiments.  I still can't
> figure out this one, though.  Even printing doublesided, you don't
> want p.1 to vanish:
>
>   
>>> \setuppapersize[A5][A4,landscape]
>>> \setuparranging[2DOWN]
>>> \starttext
>>> \input tufte
>>> \page
>>> \input tufte
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> It produces:
>>>
>>> p.1: |   |   |
>>> p.2: | 2 |   |
>>>       
>> This makes no sense.
>>     
>
> (just tried it again to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating before.)
>
> -Sanjoy
>
> `Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
>          --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>   

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

Willi Egger wrote:
> In your code you try to typeset two A5 portrait beneeth each other
> on a A4 landscape, which is impossible.
> ...
> By the way if you want to typeset A5 on a A4 landscape without
> intending to make a booklet, then you can use setuparranging[2SIDE]

Thanks for the explanations.  Now I understand what's going on, and
the wiki page makes more sense too.  I'll add to the wiki shortly.

A related problem is how to demagnify.  Then you could have (1) a
high-quality, final mode that generates A4 pages, and (2) a draft,
papersaving mode that demagnifies them to A5 and combines them in
pairs (a la 2SIDE) into A4.  I see how to use modes to do everything
except the demagnifying (Context seems, perhaps wisely, to ignore
\magnification).

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Willi Egger]

Hi Snajoy,

May be you could approach that issue with preparing first a document on 
A4 and for paper saving arrange the pages from the pdf with texexec:

texmfstart texexec --pdfarrange --paper=a5a4 --2up yourfile.pdf

Willi

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> Willi Egger wrote:
>   
>> In your code you try to typeset two A5 portrait beneeth each other
>> on a A4 landscape, which is impossible.
>> ...
>> By the way if you want to typeset A5 on a A4 landscape without
>> intending to make a booklet, then you can use setuparranging[2SIDE]
>>     
>
> Thanks for the explanations.  Now I understand what's going on, and
> the wiki page makes more sense too.  I'll add to the wiki shortly.
>
> A related problem is how to demagnify.  Then you could have (1) a
> high-quality, final mode that generates A4 pages, and (2) a draft,
> papersaving mode that demagnifies them to A5 and combines them in
> pairs (a la 2SIDE) into A4.  I see how to use modes to do everything
> except the demagnifying (Context seems, perhaps wisely, to ignore
> \magnification).
>
> -Sanjoy
>
> `Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
>          --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>   

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

> texexec --pdfarrange --paper=a5a4 --2up yourfile.pdf

I tried a few experiments with no luck.  Not sure if it's a context or
texexec problem, or my confusion.  I made the multi-page p5.pdf from

\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\starttext
\dorecurse{50}{
\input tufte
}
\stoptext

Then I ran 'texexec --pdfarrange --paper=a5a4 p5.pdf' (the --2up
doesn't change the error below) and got this error:

! Missing number, treated as zero.
<to be read again> 
                   a
\@@ppoffset ->a
               5a4
\calculatepaperoffsets ...lue {\??pp #1\c!offset }
                                                  \divide \scratchdimen \arr...
<argument> ...!height }\calculatepaperoffsets {A4}
                                                  \xdef \papersize {A4}
\firstofoneargument #1->#1
                          
\next1 #1,->\docommando {#1}
                            \doprocesscommaitem 
...
l.3 \setuplayout
                

texexec is doing the arranging by making the following 'texexec.tex'
file and then, I think, running texexec on it:

\definepapersize
  [offset=a5a4]
\setuplayout
  [backspace=0cm,
    topspace=0cm,
       width=middle,
      height=middle,
    location=middle,
      header=0pt,
      footer=0pt]
\setuppagenumbering
  [alternative=doublesided]
\starttext
\insertpages
  [p5.pdf]
  [width=0cm]
\stoptext

The 'offset=a5a4' is upsetting Context; according to texshow-web on
the garden, the offset should be a dimension.  Also, I couldn't find
(using grep) the string 'a5a4' in the context sources.

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 8/29/06, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> > texexec --pdfarrange --paper=a5a4 --2up yourfile.pdf
>
> I tried a few experiments with no luck.  Not sure if it's a context or
> texexec problem, or my confusion.  I made the multi-page p5.pdf from

try --paperformat instead of --paper.

texexec --pdfcombine --combination=2*1
--paperformat=A4,landscape*A4,lanscape --nobanner filename.pdf

seems to do almost what you want (although it's way to complicated if
you ask me), but I still don't understand how
    \definepapersize[offset=#{paperoffset}]
works.

Mojca


> \setuppapersize[A4][A4]
> \starttext
> \dorecurse{50}{
> \input tufte
> }
> \stoptext
>
> Then I ran 'texexec --pdfarrange --paper=a5a4 p5.pdf' (the --2up
> doesn't change the error below) and got this error:
>
> ! Missing number, treated as zero.
> <to be read again>
>                    a
> \@@ppoffset ->a
>                5a4
> \calculatepaperoffsets ...lue {\??pp #1\c!offset }
>                                                   \divide \scratchdimen \arr...
> <argument> ...!height }\calculatepaperoffsets {A4}
>                                                   \xdef \papersize {A4}
> \firstofoneargument #1->#1
>
> \next1 #1,->\docommando {#1}
>                             \doprocesscommaitem
> ...
> l.3 \setuplayout
>
>
> texexec is doing the arranging by making the following 'texexec.tex'
> file and then, I think, running texexec on it:
>
> \definepapersize
>   [offset=a5a4]
> \setuplayout
>   [backspace=0cm,
>     topspace=0cm,
>        width=middle,
>       height=middle,
>     location=middle,
>       header=0pt,
>       footer=0pt]
> \setuppagenumbering
>   [alternative=doublesided]
> \starttext
> \insertpages
>   [p5.pdf]
>   [width=0cm]
> \stoptext
>
> The 'offset=a5a4' is upsetting Context; according to texshow-web on
> the garden, the offset should be a dimension.  Also, I couldn't find
> (using grep) the string 'a5a4' in the context sources.

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Sanjoy Mahajan]

I've mostly understood arranging but I cannot figure out how to make
2SIDE place a blank page (page 0, to not affect the page numbering) on
the left half of the first arranged sheet and carry on as normal.  To
illustrate, where the enclosed numbers are the unarranged numbers:

p.1: | |1|
p.2: |2|3|
p.3: |4|5|

That way each arranged sheet (p.1,2, or 3) will be a spread from the
final book, plus one saves paper.

Gerben Wierda (12 March 2005) asked this question on the list, but I
did not see an answer so perhaps it is difficult.  I looked at the
code in page-imp.tex and had hopes for \ejectdummypage but my
experments didn't work.

Also my hopes for a cheap hack also were dashed.  I tried inserting a
\null\page[blank] before the \chapter{First chapter}.  But with
doublesided pagenumbering, the chapter starts only on an odd page, so
the single blank page turns into two blank pages.

-Sanjoy

`Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
         --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Willi Egger]

Hi,

The 2SIDE arrangment is not intended for a doublesided layout. If the 
layout is single sided you can easily add an empty page with 
\strut\page. This impositionscheme is only for arranging 2 pages on a 
suitable paper, the pages remain in their normal sequence. that is, 
there is no booklet!
In order to have an empty page you can stop pagenumbering first and 
start numbering on the second page (see below).

The 2UP arrangement is suitable for a doublesided layout, pages are 
arranged in such a way, that you can fold a booklet. Whether or not the 
left part of the paper-sheet remains blank depends on the number of 
pages to be arranged. This method uses a lot of paper because a chapter 
will allways start on an odd page, i.e. on the right-half of the paper.
Otherwise you can use a singlesided layout with 2UP and in this case 
chapters will also start on "odd" pages. This is the most compact way of 
arranging 2 pages on one sheet of paper, ending up still with a booklet.

Tests were performed with the following code:

\setuppapersize[A5,portrait][A4,landscape]%
% \setuparranging [2*8,doublesided]
\setuparranging[2SIDE]%not intended for a duoblesided layout.
%\setuparranging[2UP]% can be used with doublesided layout, chapters 
start allways on an odd page.
                                    % can be used with a singlesided 
layout, chapters will start also on even pages, keep in mind
                                    % that the imposition takes place 
after typesetting. In the case of a singlesides layout, all pages
                                    % are "odd".
\setuplayout [location=middle]
\setuppagenumbering[location={footer,marginedge},state=start]%,alternative=doublesided

\starttext
\setuppagenumbering[state=stop]
    \strut\page
\setuppagenumbering[state=start]

\dostepwiserecurse{1}{20}{1}{%
    \startalignment[middle]
    \chapter{Chapter title}
        \vfil
        This is {\bfd \recurselevel}
        \input zapf
        \stopalignment
        \vfil
        \page}
\stoptext

Willi

Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:
> I've mostly understood arranging but I cannot figure out how to make
> 2SIDE place a blank page (page 0, to not affect the page numbering) on
> the left half of the first arranged sheet and carry on as normal.  To
> illustrate, where the enclosed numbers are the unarranged numbers:
>
> p.1: | |1|
> p.2: |2|3|
> p.3: |4|5|
>
> That way each arranged sheet (p.1,2, or 3) will be a spread from the
> final book, plus one saves paper.
>
> Gerben Wierda (12 March 2005) asked this question on the list, but I
> did not see an answer so perhaps it is difficult.  I looked at the
> code in page-imp.tex and had hopes for \ejectdummypage but my
> experments didn't work.
>
> Also my hopes for a cheap hack also were dashed.  I tried inserting a
> \null\page[blank] before the \chapter{First chapter}.  But with
> doublesided pagenumbering, the chapter starts only on an odd page, so
> the single blank page turns into two blank pages.
>
> -Sanjoy
>
> `Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.'
>          --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1.
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>   

Re: 2DOWN imposition gives blank pages

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote:

> I've mostly understood arranging but I cannot figure out how to make
> 2SIDE place a blank page (page 0, to not affect the page numbering) on
> the left half of the first arranged sheet and carry on as normal.  To
> illustrate, where the enclosed numbers are the unarranged numbers:
>
> p.1: | |1|
> p.2: |2|3|
> p.3: |4|5|
>
> That way each arranged sheet (p.1,2, or 3) will be a spread from the
> final book, plus one saves paper.
>
> Also my hopes for a cheap hack also were dashed.  I tried inserting a
> \null\page[blank] before the \chapter{First chapter}.  But with
> doublesided pagenumbering, the chapter starts only on an odd page, so
> the single blank page turns into two blank pages.

How about if you change the meaning of odd and even. That is,

set up everything so that chapters start from even page, setuplayout 
as a mirror image of the layout that you want, setupheaders and 
footers in a mirror manner. Finally insert a blank page right at the 
begining; you can use \startTEXpage[width=\paperwidth, 
height=\paperheight] and this will not affect the normal 
pagenumbering.

Then you can fool context to do what you want.

Aditya