ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Dear Mojca,

[I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite
distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might
concern :-).]

After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all
my work documents should be PDF/A.

Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents.

In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have
to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC
profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid.

If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite,
please tell me and I will do it.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Peter Rolf]

Hi Pablo,

Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
> Dear Mojca,
>
> [I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite
> distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might
> concern :-).]
> 
> After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all
> my work documents should be PDF/A.
> 
> Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
> http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
> I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.
>

Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough
to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

> This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents.
> 
> In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have
> to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC
> profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid.
>
> If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite,
> please tell me and I will do it.
>

In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was
dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that,
so no changes were made.

Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in
the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of
them), set the environment variable manually, and done.

http://www.colourmanagement.net/advice/where-are-my-icc-profiles


> Many thanks for your help,
> 
> Pablo
> 

Peter
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
> Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>> [...]
>> Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
>> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
>> http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
>> I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.
> 
> Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough
> to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

Hi Peter,

how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how
about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?

> In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was
> dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that,
> so no changes were made.

Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.

> Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in
> the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of
> them), set the environment variable manually, and done.

I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have
to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide
environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall
(something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for
that computer.

As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very
specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once.

Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with
ConTeXt).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hi,

On 27 August 2017 at 19:24, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> Dear Mojca,
>
> [I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite
> distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might
> concern :-).]
>
> After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all
> my work documents should be PDF/A.
>
> Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
> http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
> I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

I see various reasons:
- I don't remember anyone explicitly asking for them.
- I suspect that Hans is not allowed to put them into his zip due to
various licencing issues, but it also increases the size.
- It's a bit inconvenient to fetch the files from a random place. The
easiest way to handle that would be by creating a proper ConTeXt
third-party module and then we would only add another module to the
list.

> This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents.
>
> In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have
> to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC
> profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid.
>
> If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite,
> please tell me and I will do it.

It would help if other people provide more feedback, but probably the
best way would be to create a module and upload it to
modules.contextgarden.net. Maybe best get some feedback about the most
suitable location of the files before creating the module?

Mojca
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 08/27/2017 10:08 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On 27 August 2017 at 19:24, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
> - It's a bit inconvenient to fetch the files from a random place. The
> easiest way to handle that would be by creating a proper ConTeXt
> third-party module and then we would only add another module to the
> list.

Hi Mojca,

then I’ll create the module.

I guess I have to include the profiles and a README. But a simple
question comes to my mind, how can I add the *.icc files into
tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

> It would help if other people provide more feedback, but probably the
> best way would be to create a module and upload it to
> modules.contextgarden.net. Maybe best get some feedback about the most
> suitable location of the files before creating the module?
Of course, I have to check the proper urls it before creating anything.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Mojca Miklavec]

Dear Pablo,

On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> how can I add the *.icc files into
> tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in
$wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter.

If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs
about using the profiles :)

Mojca
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Peter Rolf]

Am 27.08.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
> On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
>> Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>>> [...]
>>> Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
>>> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
>>> http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
>>> I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.
>>
>> Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough
>> to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how
> about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?
>

Different locations need different profiles. That's why there are also
the region related archives (Europe, India, Japan and USA).
You can't divide it any further than that.

>> In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was
>> dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that,
>> so no changes were made.
> 
> Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.
>

Exactly, it doesn't work. It's still mentioned in the partly outdated
information on the garden, but there is no 'OSCOLORDIR' string anywhere
in the context tree.

>> Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in
>> the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of
>> them), set the environment variable manually, and done.
> 
> I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have
> to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide
> environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall
> (something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for
> that computer.
>
> As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very
> specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once.
> 
> Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with
> ConTeXt).
>

I see. Still no love for 'OSCOLORDIR'. R.I.P. :D

> Many thanks for your help,
>

No problem, you are welcome. Looks to me like you are solving the
problem by yourself. I guess a module is a good idea.


> Pablo
> 

Peter

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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 08/27/2017 10:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Dear Pablo,
> 
> On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> how can I add the *.icc files into
>> tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?
> 
> They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in
> $wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter.

Sorry for asking the most basic questions, Mojca. I never made a module
in ConTeXt and the task isn’t obvious to me.

I have to include the profiles in $context/tex/texmf-modules/colors/icc
and documentation in
$context/tex/texmf-modules/doc/context/third/icc-profiles/.

Is there any documentation on how to create a module?

I read something in the wiki, but it was all about namespaces and I
think they aren’t required here.

> If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs
> about using the profiles :)

With the documentation, I may write a simple README.md file and include
a directory with examples (from the wiki ;-)).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 28 August 2017 at 07:53, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> On 08/27/2017 10:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> Dear Pablo,
>>
>> On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>> how can I add the *.icc files into
>>> tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?
>>
>> They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in
>> $wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter.
>
> Sorry for asking the most basic questions, Mojca. I never made a module
> in ConTeXt and the task isn’t obvious to me.
>
> I have to include the profiles in $context/tex/texmf-modules/colors/icc
> and documentation in
> $context/tex/texmf-modules/doc/context/third/icc-profiles/.

No. In case you want the mentioned paths you would probably use
    colors/icc/<name-of-your-module>
    doc/context/third/t-<name-of-your-module>

> Is there any documentation on how to create a module?
>
> I read something in the wiki, but it was all about namespaces and I
> think they aren’t required here.

I leave that to others.

>> If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs
>> about using the profiles :)
>
> With the documentation, I may write a simple README.md file and include
> a directory with examples (from the wiki ;-)).

It's often helpful to have a tex document with the generated pdf, so
that users can also see the effect (picture is worth thousand words)
and have a working tex source they can modify, but a plain text (or
markdown) should be acceptable.

Mojca
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/27/2017 11:26 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
> Am 27.08.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>> On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
>>> Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
>>>> [...]
>>>> Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden
>>>> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles,
>>>> http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip),
>>>> I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.
>>>
>>> Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough
>>> to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how
>> about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?
>>
> 
> Different locations need different profiles. That's why there are also
> the region related archives (Europe, India, Japan and USA).
> You can't divide it any further than that.

We had it but it (a new var) was not accepted in tex live so we dropped 
it and context can find the files anyway.

>>> In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was
>>> dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that,
>>> so no changes were made.
>>
>> Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.
> 
> Exactly, it doesn't work. It's still mentioned in the partly outdated
> information on the garden, but there is no 'OSCOLORDIR' string anywhere
> in the context tree.

And context would fallback on whatever location anyway.

>>> Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in
>>> the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of
>>> them), set the environment variable manually, and done.
>>
>> I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have
>> to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide
>> environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall
>> (something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for
>> that computer.
>>
>> As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very
>> specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once.
>>
>> Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with
>> ConTeXt).
>> 
> I see. Still no love for 'OSCOLORDIR'. R.I.P. :D 
>> Many thanks for your help,
>> 
> No problem, you are welcome. Looks to me like you are solving the
> problem by yourself. I guess a module is a good idea.
FWIW, in colorprofiles.xml one can find the places where one can find 
the files. We could of course put copies in the garden someplace.

Hans

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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Hi,
just wanted to say THANK YOU for finally tackling that issue!
I want PDF/X etc. myself but always postponed it...

Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[luigi scarso]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> just wanted to say THANK YOU for finally tackling that issue!
> I want PDF/X etc. myself but always postponed it...

One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution
is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user.
It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing
(wrong profile for the medium)
or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a
profile A, and the document has  a color with different profile B,
perhaps in an image).
On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong
pdf", perhaps  showing the result from a bugged validator
(all already happen, in several situations).

The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues.

-- 
luigi
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-08-28 um 10:37 schrieb luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>:

> One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution
> is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user.
> It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing
> (wrong profile for the medium)
> or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a
> profile A, and the document has  a color with different profile B,
> perhaps in an image).
> On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong
> pdf", perhaps  showing the result from a bugged validator
> (all already happen, in several situations).
> 
> The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues.

Ok, I’ll reserve a timeslot for PDF/(X/A/UA) discussion.

Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 08/28/2017 02:53 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 2017-08-28 um 10:37 schrieb luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>:
> 
>> One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution
>> is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user.
>> It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing
>> (wrong profile for the medium)
>> or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a
>> profile A, and the document has  a color with different profile B,
>> perhaps in an image).
>> On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong
>> pdf", perhaps  showing the result from a bugged validator
>> (all already happen, in several situations).
>>
>> The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues.
> 
> Ok, I’ll reserve a timeslot for PDF/(X/A/UA) discussion.

Unfortunately, I cannot attend the meeting.

I’m not especially interesting in doing the thing myself, but I want to
be able to use it.

BTW, Luigi, not including the profiles doesn’t prevent people messing
things, since they aren’t included and complaints had taken place.

Of course, I would be very interested in the results from the
discussions in the next meeting.

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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