Difference between MKIV and MKII

Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi,

I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks) 
while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create 
minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?

Aditya
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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[luigi scarso]

On 8/8/07, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>
yes, maybe a test is better.

-- 
luigi
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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks) 
> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create 
> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?

indeed


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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Aditya Mahajan]

Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>
> indeed

Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.

\starttext

\dorecurse{10}
{
\input tufte
\startformula
  E = mc^2
\stopformula
\par
}

\stoptext

Aditya
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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
> 
>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>> indeed
> 
> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \dorecurse{10}
> {
> \input tufte
> \startformula
>   E = mc^2
> \stopformula
> \par
> }
> 
> \stoptext

i have to look into it (i remember that there was a problem with display 
(more nodes dus to directional stuff)

anyhow, the whole spacing model will be redone in mkiv (framework is 
there already)

Hans

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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Peter Rolf]

Hi Aditya,

Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
> 
>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>> indeed
> 
> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>
in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
to date). Using your example, I now get a

12pt text font with pdftex and
10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).

So maybe you have the same problem?

If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:

lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
Type: Type1 (CID)
Encoding: Identity-H

Strange. Maybe only some messy font setup on my system.

Peter

> \starttext
> 
> \dorecurse{10}
> {
> \input tufte
> \startformula
>   E = mc^2
> \stopformula
> \par
> }
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> Aditya
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> 

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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Peter Rolf]

Peter Rolf schrieb:
> Hi Aditya,
> 
> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>
>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>> indeed
>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>
> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
> to date). Using your example, I now get a
> 
> 12pt text font with pdftex and
> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
> 
> So maybe you have the same problem?
> 
> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
> 
> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
> Type: Type1 (CID)
> Encoding: Identity-H
>
stupid me. this is otf :)

http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html

> Strange. Maybe only some messy font setup on my system.
> 
> Peter
> 
>> \starttext
>>
>> \dorecurse{10}
>> {
>> \input tufte
>> \startformula
>>   E = mc^2
>> \stopformula
>> \par
>> }
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Aditya
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> 

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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Peter Rolf wrote:
> Peter Rolf schrieb:
>> Hi Aditya,
>>
>> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>>
>>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>>> indeed
>>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>>
>> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
>> to date). Using your example, I now get a
>>
>> 12pt text font with pdftex and
>> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
>>
>> So maybe you have the same problem?
>>
>> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
>> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
>> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
>>
>> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
>> Type: Type1 (CID)
>> Encoding: Identity-H
>>
> stupid me. this is otf :)
> 
> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html

the lm 12 file says ...

  ["design_size"]=0,
  ["familyname"]="LMRoman12",
  ["fontname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
  ["fullname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",

so it looks like we have a problem there; in that case mkiv assumes 10pt

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> the lm 12 file says ...
> 
>   ["design_size"]=0,

  Huh huh, same here. Actually all my cached fonts have design_size = 0
(I have most of the LM fonts, a couple of Gyre families and Adobe Caslon).
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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Peter Rolf]

Hans Hagen schrieb:
> Peter Rolf wrote:
>> Peter Rolf schrieb:
>>> Hi Aditya,
>>>
>>> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>>>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>>>
>>>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>>>> indeed
>>>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>>>
>>> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
>>> to date). Using your example, I now get a
>>>
>>> 12pt text font with pdftex and
>>> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
>>>
>>> So maybe you have the same problem?
>>>
>>> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
>>> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
>>> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
>>>
>>> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
>>> Type: Type1 (CID)
>>> Encoding: Identity-H
>>>
>> stupid me. this is otf :)
>>
>> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html
> 
> the lm 12 file says ...
> 
>   ["design_size"]=0,
>   ["familyname"]="LMRoman12",
>   ["fontname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>   ["fullname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
> 
> so it looks like we have a problem there; in that case mkiv assumes 10pt
>
i see. which format is used for "design_size"? i tried "12", but i still
get 10pt. "12pt" gives a compilation warning (using luac); i should use
texluac, right? :D

also: why are the t1 variants used in math mode (E =mc2)? italic (all
but equal sign) and roman (=).


> Hans
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>       tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                               | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> 

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Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> the lm 12 file says ...
>>
>>   ["design_size"]=0,
> 
>   Huh huh, same here. Actually all my cached fonts have design_size = 0
> (I have most of the LM fonts, a couple of Gyre families and Adobe Caslon).

that's bad, normally we default to 10pt, which is ok, but for lm ...

i'll cook up a trick

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Peter Rolf wrote:
> Hans Hagen schrieb:
>> Peter Rolf wrote:
>>> Peter Rolf schrieb:
>>>> Hi Aditya,
>>>>
>>>> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>>>>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>>>>> indeed
>>>>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>>>>
>>>> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
>>>> to date). Using your example, I now get a
>>>>
>>>> 12pt text font with pdftex and
>>>> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
>>>>
>>>> So maybe you have the same problem?
>>>>
>>>> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
>>>> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
>>>> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
>>>>
>>>> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
>>>> Type: Type1 (CID)
>>>> Encoding: Identity-H
>>>>
>>> stupid me. this is otf :)
>>>
>>> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html
>> the lm 12 file says ...
>>
>>   ["design_size"]=0,
>>   ["familyname"]="LMRoman12",
>>   ["fontname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>   ["fullname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>
>> so it looks like we have a problem there; in that case mkiv assumes 10pt
>>
> i see. which format is used for "design_size"? i tried "12", but i still
> get 10pt. "12pt" gives a compilation warning (using luac); i should use
> texluac, right? :D

120

but there's also a problem in the loader (in font-otf)


         local designsize = data.designsize or data.design_size or 100
         if designsize == 0 then
             designsize = 100
         end
         tfm.designsize         = (designsize/10)*65536




i'll upload a new zip later

i made a mechanism that can 'repair fonts' so lm is fixed (well, the 
error is intercepted

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Hans Hagen]

Peter Rolf wrote:
> Hans Hagen schrieb:
>> Peter Rolf wrote:
>>> Peter Rolf schrieb:
>>>> Hi Aditya,
>>>>
>>>> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>>>>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>>>>> indeed
>>>>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>>>>
>>>> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
>>>> to date). Using your example, I now get a
>>>>
>>>> 12pt text font with pdftex and
>>>> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
>>>>
>>>> So maybe you have the same problem?
>>>>
>>>> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
>>>> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
>>>> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
>>>>
>>>> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
>>>> Type: Type1 (CID)
>>>> Encoding: Identity-H
>>>>
>>> stupid me. this is otf :)
>>>
>>> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html
>> the lm 12 file says ...
>>
>>   ["design_size"]=0,
>>   ["familyname"]="LMRoman12",
>>   ["fontname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>   ["fullname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>
>> so it looks like we have a problem there; in that case mkiv assumes 10pt
>>
> i see. which format is used for "design_size"? i tried "12", but i still
> get 10pt. "12pt" gives a compilation warning (using luac); i should use
> texluac, right? :D
> 
> also: why are the t1 variants used in math mode (E =mc2)? italic (all
> but equal sign) and roman (=).

dunno, math modes uses tfm files; also, there have been some fixes to 
tfm/vf loading in mkiv as well as luatex itself .. best check after an 
update

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Difference between MKIV and MKII

[Peter Rolf]

Hans Hagen schrieb:
> Peter Rolf wrote:
>> Hans Hagen schrieb:
>>> Peter Rolf wrote:
>>>> Peter Rolf schrieb:
>>>>> Hi Aditya,
>>>>>
>>>>> Aditya Mahajan schrieb:
>>>>>> Quoting Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I get significantly different white spaces (and hence page breaks)
>>>>>>>> while using mkiv and mkii. Is this expected, or should I try to create
>>>>>>>> minimal example exhibiting such "problems"?
>>>>>>> indeed
>>>>>> Here is a minimal example. The spaces around formulas are more.
>>>>>>
>>>>> in the meantime I have also updated my \texmf subtree (LM should be up
>>>>> to date). Using your example, I now get a
>>>>>
>>>>> 12pt text font with pdftex and
>>>>> 10pt text font with luatex (but 12pt in math mode).
>>>>>
>>>>> So maybe you have the same problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I remember it right, luatex normally used the OTF variant of LM in my
>>>>> prior test. Now it's also T1, but with an additional font (this one is
>>>>> used for the 10pt text) in comparison to pdftex:
>>>>>
>>>>> lmrroman12-regular (Embedded Subset)
>>>>> Type: Type1 (CID)
>>>>> Encoding: Identity-H
>>>>>
>>>> stupid me. this is otf :)
>>>>
>>>> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_font_formats.html
>>> the lm 12 file says ...
>>>
>>>   ["design_size"]=0,
>>>   ["familyname"]="LMRoman12",
>>>   ["fontname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>>   ["fullname"]="LMRoman12-Regular",
>>>
>>> so it looks like we have a problem there; in that case mkiv assumes 10pt
>>>
>> i see. which format is used for "design_size"? i tried "12", but i still
>> get 10pt. "12pt" gives a compilation warning (using luac); i should use
>> texluac, right? :D
> 
> 120
>
makes sense

> but there's also a problem in the loader (in font-otf)
> 
> 
>          local designsize = data.designsize or data.design_size or 100

it took me a minute to see, that the 'or 100' is not obsolete. lua is
tricky and a bit nuts.

>          if designsize == 0 then
>              designsize = 100
>          end
>          tfm.designsize         = (designsize/10)*65536
>
> 
> 
> 
> i'll upload a new zip later
>
ok. i'll retest the example then.

> i made a mechanism that can 'repair fonts' so lm is fixed (well, the 
> error is intercepted
>
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>       tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                               | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> 

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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
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