Re: Recommendations for Speed?

Re: Recommendations for Speed?

[Duncan Hothersall]

Taco said:
> Duane Johnson wrote:
>   
>> 1. Is there a way to keep TeX in-memory (i.e. as a server or daemon  
>> process) so that it doesn't have to load and reload fonts and the  
>> environment?  Our system makes repeated requests for typeset  
>> documents and we are wondering if there's a way to remove the  
>> overhead of re-running pdftex.
>>     
>
> No, there is not (at least not using any of the 'stock' tex
> distributions). The one thing you could do is preload the fonts
> and modules you need into the format file, but setting this up
> is not completely trivial either.
>   
Indeed not trivial. But something I played with once upon a time for 
much the same purpose. You should take a look at Jonathan Fine's TeX 
daemon project texd (http://sourceforge.net/projects/texd) if you 
haven't already - it runs as a pipe (unix) and only loads formats once; 
it would take a little bit work to get it going reliably with ConTeXt, 
especially to do so in a way that is easily updated when a new ConTeXt 
is released, and I'm not sure if Jonathan is still actively working on 
the project. But it demonstrates an effective approach, which works with 
Plain (and LaTeX I think).

Duncan
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

waiting for mswincontext

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello,

Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?

Best,
Vaytcheslav



___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?

i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:46:32 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available  
>> from Pragma tomorrow or when?
>
> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a
> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)

Don't forget to incorporate tex-gyre, including otf's!

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:46:32 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?
> 
> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
> 
> Hans

Hi Hans,

can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
and LuaTeX and the fonts.conf file for XeTeX. I prefer plain TeX for
test files or simple documents where I can live without ConTeXt and
this should work out of the box and not only after I create the files
by myself.

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Taco Hoekwater]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:46:32 +0200
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?
>> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
>> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
>>
>> Hans
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX

Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
same time :-)

Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:46:32 +0200
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?
>> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
>> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
>>
>> Hans
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
> and LuaTeX and the fonts.conf file for XeTeX. I prefer plain TeX for
> test files or simple documents where I can live without ConTeXt and
> this should work out of the box and not only after I create the files
> by myself.

what's wrong with

texexec --make --all --xetex plain

and alike? i have nu clue what ini files are for

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Thank you, Hans and Mojca, for replies.

The story started in Septemper, 10, when I updated cont-tmf files for my mswincontext. I did it many times (once there was new update available) but this time I'm gone into trouble. Context started producing broken pdfs for every document with third-party font. I spent many days in trying hard to fix the issue, but nothing was helpful. I was suggested many ideas from the community, until Hans and Taco noticed that "the latest cont-tmf is not in sync with binaries"! 

How could I ever know that, if these files were posted on current CONTEXT distribution page? My further attempts to update luatex binary alone did not succeed.  I was very angry.  Now I wait till Owners "regenerate the big things" and I can get proven worked version  for Windows. Hope it will be soon.

-- 
Best regards,
Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a
> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)

So the minimal distribution will come with mkii, mkiii, and mkiv?  Thanks!

One question: does the bundled LuaTeX track the current (semi)stable
LuaTeX releases?

--Joel
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 9/19/07, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:
> Don't forget to incorporate tex-gyre, including otf's!

Is the installation really that hard?

I'd rather have a tarball to be unzipped over the directory tree than
have a constantly growing 'minimal' installation.

--Joel
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a
>> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
> 
> So the minimal distribution will come with mkii, mkiii, and mkiv?  Thanks!

well, mkiii is something virtual -)

pdftex/xetex support is in the tex+mkii files
luatex       support is in the tex+mkiv files

the deviattion of xetex from pdftex is currently not large enough to add 
mkiii files

the context zip will always have it all

> One question: does the bundled LuaTeX track the current (semi)stable
> LuaTeX releases?

sure, when i make zips i add the bins that i use

however, in the near future minimals will be delivered differently, 
rsynced from the contextgarden and optionally be way more minimal, esp 
with regards to fonts:

pdftex: no opentype, less afm files, gyre instead of old, lm type1 (only 
encodings that make sense)

xetex: only opentype + math

luatex: idem

of course one can merge all

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:42 -0600, Joel C. Salomon  
<joelcsalomon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/19/07, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:
>> Don't forget to incorporate tex-gyre, including otf's!
>
> Is the installation really that hard?

The last time I installed TeX-Gyre only two fonts worked and the rest did  
not.

The point is that debugging when things go wrong takes time and some of us  
are just too busy to have to to debug every little thing. It seems to me  
that TeX-Gyre is one of those things that should work out of the box, like  
lm.

> I'd rather have a tarball to be unzipped over the directory tree than
> have a constantly growing 'minimal' installation.

Finally, mswincontext.zip is not really "minimal" but "maximal" ;-)  
Updates to TeX-Gyre could be supported as a package a la cont-tmf.zip of  
course.

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:45:25 -0600, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>  
wrote:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>> can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
>
> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
> same time :-)

I think many of us see mswincontext.zip as more "maximal", not "minimal".  
For me, mswincontext IS my TeX distribution. And the free community fonts  
like TeX-Gyre should be in there by default, without having to spend hours  
configuring packages from outside pragma when they don't work ;-)

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:45:45 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:46:32 +0200
> > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > 
> >> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?
> >> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
> >> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
> >>
> >> Hans
> > 
> > Hi Hans,
> > 
> > can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
> > and LuaTeX and the fonts.conf file for XeTeX. I prefer plain TeX for
> > test files or simple documents where I can live without ConTeXt and
> > this should work out of the box and not only after I create the files
> > by myself.
> 
> what's wrong with
> 
> texexec --make --all --xetex plain

it could be just a matter of taste but I prefer to call just pdftex or
xetex and the engine with the preloaded plain TeX formats, this is
shorter because the format files pdftex.fmt or xetex.fmt are loaded by
default with the engines and xetex has sets also charclasses to a few
charcaters in his own plain format.

> and alike? i have nu clue what ini files are for

nearly the same thing you do with your cont-de, cont-en files, the load
plain.tex and seta few option like pdfoutput=1 in pdftex.ini.

A simple pdftex.ini could look like

\input plain
\pdfoutput=1
\dump

I know the ini files from w32tex and don't know how the other TeX
distributions like TeXlive or MikTeX handle the formats but I like this
system and the ini files also in the ConTeXt minimals.

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

> Don't forget to incorporate tex-gyre, including otf's!

I will force Hans into doing that in case he doesn't :)
Joking, of course.

But I would be glad if someone could help me testing fonts in
    http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/fonts/fonts.zip
It contains three folders: old, new and common.

You should be able to use any polish fonts with pdftex by using only
old and common. And you should be able to use any polish fonts with
xetex and luatex by using only new and common.

I still need to add dvipdfm map files for math for context though.

Try to fetch those files: they should work. Hopefully.

Mojca

PS: there are some plans to improve the minimals a bit. But they're
not ready yet.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:45:25 +0200
Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:46:32 +0200
> > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > 
> >> Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Waiting impatiently for updated mswincontext. Would it be available from Pragma tomorrow or when?
> >> i need to update a few more binaries, and mojca and i have to fix/test a 
> >> couple of xetex things (new xetex bin too)
> >>
> >> Hans
> > 
> > Hi Hans,
> > 
> > can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
> 
> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
> same time :-)

How about the bib module :-)

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

> > can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
>
> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
> same time :-)

But I would agree that it would be nice to be able to run plain
(pdf)TeX and plain metapost with minimals. To be honest, almost
everything is there already, with the only exception that the formats
aren't generated automatically as they are in TeX Live for example.

Having pdftex.fmt, xetex.fmt and mpost.mem generated automatically
would be great, and not much overhead. (Perhaps a file or two are
needed for xetex.fmt, not much more.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>> can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
>> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
>> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
>> same time :-)
> 
> But I would agree that it would be nice to be able to run plain
> (pdf)TeX and plain metapost with minimals. To be honest, almost
> everything is there already, with the only exception that the formats
> aren't generated automatically as they are in TeX Live for example.
> 
> Having pdftex.fmt, xetex.fmt and mpost.mem generated automatically
> would be great, and not much overhead. (Perhaps a file or two are
> needed for xetex.fmt, not much more.

as taco mentioned ... adding stuff will never end then ... could be 
another 'download option'

btw, the plain version of luatex has the same basic file stuff as mkiv, 
so it does zip files and alike, some day also open type

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>> texexec --make --all --xetex plain
> 
> it could be just a matter of taste but I prefer to call just pdftex or
> xetex and the engine with the preloaded plain TeX formats, this is
> shorter because the format files pdftex.fmt or xetex.fmt are loaded by
> default with the engines and xetex has sets also charclasses to a few
> charcaters in his own plain format.

can still be done, we're just talking about making formats and that also 
involves moving files to directories and such (initex puts formats in 
the current dir)

>> and alike? i have nu clue what ini files are for
> 
> nearly the same thing you do with your cont-de, cont-en files, the load
> plain.tex and seta few option like pdfoutput=1 in pdftex.ini.
> 
> A simple pdftex.ini could look like
> 
> \input plain
> \pdfoutput=1
> \dump

hm, to be honest, i dislike such defaults, esp since normally switches 
to engines go along with selective loading or other initializations,

afaik those ini files are used by fmtutil and that is (and will not be) 
not part of the minimals

> I know the ini files from w32tex and don't know how the other TeX
> distributions like TeXlive or MikTeX handle the formats but I like this
> system and the ini files also in the ConTeXt minimals.

would not help since generating format is not done that way in minimals

btw,

pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump

can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain 
formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:42 -0600, Joel C. Salomon  
> <joelcsalomon@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/19/07, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:
>>> Don't forget to incorporate tex-gyre, including otf's!
>> Is the installation really that hard?
> 
> The last time I installed TeX-Gyre only two fonts worked and the rest did  
> not.
> 
> The point is that debugging when things go wrong takes time and some of us  
> are just too busy to have to to debug every little thing. It seems to me  
> that TeX-Gyre is one of those things that should work out of the box, like  
> lm.

sure, but since they are under development, names change, locations 
change etc i don't look into it on a daily basis (already overloaded)

>> I'd rather have a tarball to be unzipped over the directory tree than
>> have a constantly growing 'minimal' installation.
> 
> Finally, mswincontext.zip is not really "minimal" but "maximal" ;-)  
> Updates to TeX-Gyre could be supported as a package a la cont-tmf.zip of  
> course.

we had that a while but inconsistencies showed up

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
> btw,
>
> pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
>
> can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain
> formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you

pdftex.fmt and mpost.mem would be perfectly fine. No need for
plain.fmt (I guess). (And maybe xetex.fmt as a sugar, although that
one might need some additional files.)

It might be extremely simple to generate format the way you describe
above, but perhaps
    texexec --make pdftex mpost xetex
could have done the the same job instead (since people are used to it)?

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:25:35 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster  
<schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:

>> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
>> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
>> same time :-)
>
> How about the bib module :-)

LOL, best joke I've heard all week...

Err, well, you had BETTER be joking ;-)

Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> btw,
>>
>> pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
>>
>> can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain
>> formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you
> 
> pdftex.fmt and mpost.mem would be perfectly fine. No need for
> plain.fmt (I guess). (And maybe xetex.fmt as a sugar, although that
> one might need some additional files.)

pdftex --ini -fmt=pdftex plain.tex \\pdfoutput=1 \dump

probably does that, but as said, everyone wants his/her own variant 
(patterns to start with -)

is you know how to use plain, then you also know how to make.call 
formats -)

btw,

luatools --make --compile plain
luatools --run plain

as stub is needed for plain in order to get the lua files loaded (also 
because we bypass kpse)

> It might be extremely simple to generate format the way you describe
> above, but perhaps
>     texexec --make pdftex mpost xetex
> could have done the the same job instead (since people are used to it)?

sure, but i haven't used plain in ages and using texexec for plain is 
kind of overkill, so i happily leave that to others to deal with

as said, minimals are minimal and should be more minimal instead of 
adding stuff; the current minimals are way to big (for me)

personally i always find it kind of annoying that when i download an 
achive with binaries, that i also get format files that i don't use (or 
know)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:25:35 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster  
> <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
>>> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
>>> same time :-)
>> How about the bib module :-)
> 
> LOL, best joke I've heard all week...
> 
> Err, well, you had BETTER be joking ;-)

well, if someone keys in my books in a bib file, i'll make a lua variant -)

actually, i may look into that some day (when i'm bored) because it will 
make bib handling much easier

Hans



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Hans Hagen wrote:
> well, if someone keys in my books in a bib file, i'll make a lua variant -)

hmm .... how many books do you have? :)

Aditya
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> hmm .... how many books do you have? :)

  That's not how you should have asked it :-) You should have said yes
first and then looked for someone to type the bib file if Hans really
has too much books ;-) Or you could distribute the task ...

	Arthur
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> btw,
>>>
>>> pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
>>>
>>> can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain
>>> formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you
>> pdftex.fmt and mpost.mem would be perfectly fine. No need for
>> plain.fmt (I guess). (And maybe xetex.fmt as a sugar, although that
>> one might need some additional files.)
> 
> pdftex --ini -fmt=pdftex plain.tex \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
> 
> probably does that, but as said, everyone wants his/her own variant 
> (patterns to start with -)

There is no doubt that plain is useful. I always create the plain
Knuth format for luatex and pdftex by hand, and while it would be nice
to have it done automatically, it is not that much work, and all real
input files are there (.ini's are a commandline convenience).

If I understood correctly, plain xetex really needs something extra?
If that is so, than perhaps that file should be added. Mojca, what's
up with that?

On dev-context, I have already proposed the removal of a number of
binaries, so I can make that request :-)

Best wishes,
Taco


___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Taco Hoekwater]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:45:25 -0600, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>  
> wrote:
> 
>> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>>> can you also add ini files for the plain TeX formats with XeTeX, pdfTeX
>> Hey, you lot! They are supposed to be "minimals". If you suggest adding
>> something, I really think you should suggest removing something at the
>> same time :-)
> 
> I think many of us see mswincontext.zip as more "maximal", not "minimal".  

That is true for me as well. I think inclusion of tex-gyre is planned
for the new distribution system that is being worked on (by Arthur and
Mojca, mostly).

Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Taco Hoekwater]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> hmm .... how many books do you have? :)
> 
>   That's not how you should have asked it :-) You should have said yes
> first and then looked for someone to type the bib file if Hans really
> has too much books ;-) Or you could distribute the task ...

Really, we (=I) should move away from bibtex.

What I really want is a module that reads XML databases by using lua
xpath for item extraction (inline in mkiv, with a standalone lua script
in mkii), along with a script to convert legacy bibtex databases into
XML databases.

I have Mods in mind for the database format.

The problem is, I keep getting side-tracked by other stuff like luatex
and metapost...

Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> well, if someone keys in my books in a bib file, i'll make a lua variant -)
> 
> hmm .... how many books do you have? :)

quite a lot (i sometimes buy them faster than i can read), but not all 
qualify for a database -)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> well, if someone keys in my books in a bib file, i'll make a lua variant -)
> 
> hmm .... how many books do you have? :)

btw, one thing that i noticed is that more and more (scientific) books 
are typeset using systems that do interchar spacing (even when not 
needed) which makes reading less fun; there are occasional exceptions of 
course; we could have a database of books with comments on their quality

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>>> hmm .... how many books do you have? :)
>>   That's not how you should have asked it :-) You should have said yes
>> first and then looked for someone to type the bib file if Hans really
>> has too much books ;-) Or you could distribute the task ...
> 
> Really, we (=I) should move away from bibtex.
> 
> What I really want is a module that reads XML databases by using lua
> xpath for item extraction (inline in mkiv, with a standalone lua script
> in mkii), along with a script to convert legacy bibtex databases into
> XML databases.
> 
> I have Mods in mind for the database format.

we can discuss that in mode detail as it makes a nice example of using 
the xml features in mkiv

if we have the database format decided, i can make a basic framework and 
you/others can define the bib styles

of course this is mkiv only

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 9/20/07, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hans Hagen wrote:
> > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >> On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >>> btw,
> >>>
> >>> pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
> >>>
> >>> can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain
> >>> formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you
> >> pdftex.fmt and mpost.mem would be perfectly fine. No need for
> >> plain.fmt (I guess). (And maybe xetex.fmt as a sugar, although that
> >> one might need some additional files.)
> >
> > pdftex --ini -fmt=pdftex plain.tex \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
> >
> > probably does that, but as said, everyone wants his/her own variant
> > (patterns to start with -)
>
> There is no doubt that plain is useful. I always create the plain
> Knuth format for luatex and pdftex by hand, and while it would be nice
> to have it done automatically, it is not that much work, and all real
> input files are there (.ini's are a commandline convenience).

(In case of XeTeX, it's slightly more that a single line to be typed :)

> If I understood correctly, plain xetex really needs something extra?
> If that is so, than perhaps that file should be added. Mojca, what's
> up with that?

xetex.ini looks like that:

\catcode`\{=1 \catcode`\}=2 \catcode`\#=6 \catcode`\^=7 \catcode`\@=11

\input unicode-letters

\let\s@vef@nt=\font
... some stuff here
\lowercase{\def\sk@pf@nt\preloaded=#1^^A{\endgroup}}

\input etex.src

% restore the \font command and undefine other stuff
\catcode`\@=11
\let\font=\s@vef@nt
... some more stuff here

\dump
\endinput

So one additionally needs:
- (possibly modified) xetex.ini itself
- unicode-letters.tex (could be replaced by enco-utf.tex, though I
just figured out that there's more in unicode-letters than in
enco-utf, but in that case enco-utf is that one which should be fixed)
- etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
- tex-text.tec (which was missing until now but needs to be added anyway)
- hmmm ... no idea about what is needed for hyphenation (but I guess
that patterns from ConTeXt could be used as well)

I will test once I have the rest, but it would be really handy to have
the three plain formats (pdfTeX, XeTeX and mpost available; plus
luatex if needed).

> On dev-context, I have already proposed the removal of a number of
> binaries, so I can make that request :-)

;) 3-times hurray for Taco :)

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 9/20/07, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> Really, we (=I) should move away from bibtex.

Has anyone on the list tried CrossTeX
(http://crosstex.sourceforge.net/)?  I've successfully used it with
LaTeX; no idea how much trouble it would be to use with ConTeXt.

--Joel
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:18:45 +0200
"Mojca Miklavec" <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/20/07, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> > Hans Hagen wrote:
> > > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > >> On 9/19/07, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > >>> btw,
> > >>>
> > >>> pdftex --ini &plain \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
> > >>>
> > >>> can do the same for you, but as said .. if the minimals would have plain
> > >>> formats they would default to dvi anyway so it would be of no help to you
> > >> pdftex.fmt and mpost.mem would be perfectly fine. No need for
> > >> plain.fmt (I guess). (And maybe xetex.fmt as a sugar, although that
> > >> one might need some additional files.)
> > >
> > > pdftex --ini -fmt=pdftex plain.tex \\pdfoutput=1 \dump
> > >
> > > probably does that, but as said, everyone wants his/her own variant
> > > (patterns to start with -)
> >
> > There is no doubt that plain is useful. I always create the plain
> > Knuth format for luatex and pdftex by hand, and while it would be nice
> > to have it done automatically, it is not that much work, and all real
> > input files are there (.ini's are a commandline convenience).
> 
> (In case of XeTeX, it's slightly more that a single line to be typed :)
> 
> > If I understood correctly, plain xetex really needs something extra?
> > If that is so, than perhaps that file should be added. Mojca, what's
> > up with that?
> 
> xetex.ini looks like that:
> 
> \catcode`\{=1 \catcode`\}=2 \catcode`\#=6 \catcode`\^=7 \catcode`\@=11
> 
> \input unicode-letters
> 
> \let\s@vef@nt=\font
> ... some stuff here
> \lowercase{\def\sk@pf@nt\preloaded=#1^^A{\endgroup}}
> 
> \input etex.src
> 
> % restore the \font command and undefine other stuff
> \catcode`\@=11
> \let\font=\s@vef@nt
> ... some more stuff here
> 
> \dump
> \endinput
> 
> So one additionally needs:
> - (possibly modified) xetex.ini itself
> - unicode-letters.tex (could be replaced by enco-utf.tex, though I
> just figured out that there's more in unicode-letters than in
> enco-utf, but in that case enco-utf is that one which should be fixed)

this is not possible with the 0.997dev version because it presets
charclasses (a new feature in XeTeX) for a few CJK characters 

> - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)

this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex 

> - tex-text.tec (which was missing until now but needs to be added anyway)
> - hmmm ... no idea about what is needed for hyphenation (but I guess
> that patterns from ConTeXt could be used as well)
> 
> I will test once I have the rest, but it would be really handy to have
> the three plain formats (pdfTeX, XeTeX and mpost available; plus
> luatex if needed).
> 
> > On dev-context, I have already proposed the removal of a number of
> > binaries, so I can make that request :-)
> 
> ;) 3-times hurray for Taco :)
> 
> Mojca

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Aditya Mahajan]

Quoting "Joel C. Salomon" <joelcsalomon@gmail.com>:

> On 9/20/07, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
>> Really, we (=I) should move away from bibtex.
>
> Has anyone on the list tried CrossTeX
> (http://crosstex.sourceforge.net/)?  I've successfully used it with
> LaTeX; no idea how much trouble it would be to use with ConTeXt.

The last time I tried, I could not get it to work on Windows. It seemed 
that certain paths were hard coded, it wanted a /usr/bin/something to 
exist. I do not know python, and could not figure out how to correct 
it. This was about 4 months ago, I never checked if things have changed.

Aditya
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

> > So one additionally needs:
> > - (possibly modified) xetex.ini itself
> > - unicode-letters.tex (could be replaced by enco-utf.tex, though I
> > just figured out that there's more in unicode-letters than in
> > enco-utf, but in that case enco-utf is that one which should be fixed)
>
> this is not possible with the 0.997dev version because it presets
> charclasses (a new feature in XeTeX) for a few CJK characters

I saw some new additions when I took a look.

This means that enco-utf needs to be updated once hans gets the new
binaries from Akira :)

> > - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
>
> this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex

I will take a look at w32tex then.

It would be really handy to have those three plain formats.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>> So one additionally needs:
>>> - (possibly modified) xetex.ini itself
>>> - unicode-letters.tex (could be replaced by enco-utf.tex, though I

context does not use that file (plain may use it) we can indeed use 
enco-utf for plain as well (also defines some named chars)

context does not depend on any tex file outside the base path

>>> just figured out that there's more in unicode-letters than in
>>> enco-utf, but in that case enco-utf is that one which should be fixed)

depends on the kind of error -)

enco-utf uses info from unicode tables (character categories)

>> this is not possible with the 0.997dev version because it presets
>> charclasses (a new feature in XeTeX) for a few CJK characters
> 
> I saw some new additions when I took a look.
> 
> This means that enco-utf needs to be updated once hans gets the new
> binaries from Akira :)

depends, if we don't use these new features .. (yet)

>>> - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
>> this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex

because i cannot imagine a macro package to use the content of that file

> I will take a look at w32tex then.
> 
> It would be really handy to have those three plain formats.

well, only is if it is not adding too much to the minimals, (and formats 
to be generated by users)

if you want such formats, we need dedicated files to make them, like 
pdftex-plain.tex and such (after all, we want predictable stuff) for 
initializing them

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:41:08 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >>> So one additionally needs:
> >>> - (possibly modified) xetex.ini itself
> >>> - unicode-letters.tex (could be replaced by enco-utf.tex, though I
> 
> context does not use that file (plain may use it) we can indeed use 
> enco-utf for plain as well (also defines some named chars)
> 
> context does not depend on any tex file outside the base path
> 
> >>> just figured out that there's more in unicode-letters than in
> >>> enco-utf, but in that case enco-utf is that one which should be fixed)
> 
> depends on the kind of error -)
> 
> enco-utf uses info from unicode tables (character categories)
> 
> >> this is not possible with the 0.997dev version because it presets
> >> charclasses (a new feature in XeTeX) for a few CJK characters
> > 
> > I saw some new additions when I took a look.
> > 
> > This means that enco-utf needs to be updated once hans gets the new
> > binaries from Akira :)
> 
> depends, if we don't use these new features .. (yet)

THis is a nice feature for our own simple plain documents but nothing
for ConTeXt because there is no replacement in pdfTeX/luaTeX but it
would be nice to have also something to use different fonts for latin,
greek, CJK without using environments and switch to them with only the
right characters.

I want such a feature because CJK fonts have sometimes ugly latin
characters and I want to use another font for them, I know this did
happen in the current ConTeXt version but there should be no
difference in fonts for CJK and the rest. Both should be defined with
typescripts, one can use one fonts for both or select one for CJK and
another one for the rest.

> >>> - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
> >> this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex
> 
> because i cannot imagine a macro package to use the content of that file
> 
> > I will take a look at w32tex then.
> > 
> > It would be really handy to have those three plain formats.
> 
> well, only is if it is not adding too much to the minimals, (and formats 
> to be generated by users)

I have nothing against to make another archive cont-pln with all the
file we need for the plain formats.

> if you want such formats, we need dedicated files to make them, like 
> pdftex-plain.tex and such (after all, we want predictable stuff) for 
> initializing them
> 
> Hans

the file name for the format should math the engine name because it
will be loaded with engine by default if you call it, e.g. pdftex myfile
with process the file myfile with the format file pdftex.fmt

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> THis is a nice feature for our own simple plain documents but nothing
> for ConTeXt because there is no replacement in pdfTeX/luaTeX but it
> would be nice to have also something to use different fonts for latin,
> greek, CJK without using environments and switch to them with only the
> right characters.
> 
> I want such a feature because CJK fonts have sometimes ugly latin
> characters and I want to use another font for them, I know this did
> happen in the current ConTeXt version but there should be no
> difference in fonts for CJK and the rest. Both should be defined with
> typescripts, one can use one fonts for both or select one for CJK and
> another one for the rest.

i dunno what this featurs is but if it has to do with some kind of 
automatism for switching fonts depending on chars, then it has to wait 
till i have something in place for luatex (using virtual fonts btw, 
basics are there actually), and then we can look if we can use the same 
high level interface to mimick this in xetex; it's ok to have the same 
high level interface with slightly different behaviour, as with font 
features

>>>>> - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
>>>> this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex
>> because i cannot imagine a macro package to use the content of that file
>>
>>> I will take a look at w32tex then.
>>>
>>> It would be really handy to have those three plain formats.
>> well, only is if it is not adding too much to the minimals, (and formats 
>> to be generated by users)
> 
> I have nothing against to make another archive cont-pln with all the
> file we need for the plain formats.

no problem if we need what should go in there

>> if you want such formats, we need dedicated files to make them, like 
>> pdftex-plain.tex and such (after all, we want predictable stuff) for 
>> initializing them
>>
>> Hans
> 
> the file name for the format should math the engine name because it
> will be loaded with engine by default if you call it, e.g. pdftex myfile
> with process the file myfile with the format file pdftex.fmt

sure, but that's why you can have a different formatname and filename 
that generates it, so you can have blabla.tex being used for generating 
the format pdftex.fmt (also, since one has to move files anyway, 
renaming isno big deal either)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:40:33 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> > THis is a nice feature for our own simple plain documents but nothing
> > for ConTeXt because there is no replacement in pdfTeX/luaTeX but it
> > would be nice to have also something to use different fonts for latin,
> > greek, CJK without using environments and switch to them with only the
> > right characters.
> > 
> > I want such a feature because CJK fonts have sometimes ugly latin
> > characters and I want to use another font for them, I know this did
> > happen in the current ConTeXt version but there should be no
> > difference in fonts for CJK and the rest. Both should be defined with
> > typescripts, one can use one fonts for both or select one for CJK and
> > another one for the rest.
> 
> i dunno what this featurs is but if it has to do with some kind of 
> automatism for switching fonts depending on chars, then it has to wait 
> till i have something in place for luatex (using virtual fonts btw, 
> basics are there actually), and then we can look if we can use the same 
> high level interface to mimick this in xetex; it's ok to have the same 
> high level interface with slightly different behaviour, as with font 
> features

you can use this feature for font switching but this is not hard coded.

Version 0.997 of XeTeX introduced a new concept to assign every
character a class value. You can define rules what should happen if you
switch for example from class 1 to class 2 and another one if you do
the same in reverse order. The commands for this action are saved in
token register and came into action if this class switch appear in the
document.

the unicode-letters file from XeTeX define a class for quotation,
punctutation ... in CJK and another one for the other CJK characters
and define spacing and linebreaking between normal characters and
punctuation now by the class number (you did something similiar in your
chinese module but used active characters instead).

The XeTeX reference manual has a simple example of this concept on page
10 and 11.

http://tug.ctan.org/info/xetexref/XeTeX-reference.pdf

can't  this be done in LuaTeX with nodes (or what you mentioned for
your color modell) or something similar.

> >>>>> - etex.src (btw: why is that one only used in xetex, but not in pdfTeX?)
> >>>> this is also used for the pdftex format in w32tex
> >> because i cannot imagine a macro package to use the content of that file
> >>
> >>> I will take a look at w32tex then.
> >>>
> >>> It would be really handy to have those three plain formats.
> >> well, only is if it is not adding too much to the minimals, (and formats 
> >> to be generated by users)
> > 
> > I have nothing against to make another archive cont-pln with all the
> > file we need for the plain formats.
> 
> no problem if we need what should go in there
>
> >> if you want such formats, we need dedicated files to make them, like 
> >> pdftex-plain.tex and such (after all, we want predictable stuff) for 
> >> initializing them
> >>
> >> Hans
> > 
> > the file name for the format should math the engine name because it
> > will be loaded with engine by default if you call it, e.g. pdftex myfile
> > with process the file myfile with the format file pdftex.fmt
> 
> sure, but that's why you can have a different formatname and filename 
> that generates it, so you can have blabla.tex being used for generating 
> the format pdftex.fmt (also, since one has to move files anyway, 
> renaming isno big deal either)

but I am too lazy to rename files or create them always by hand with
every update ...

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> Version 0.997 of XeTeX introduced a new concept to assign every
> character a class value. You can define rules what should happen if you
> switch for example from class 1 to class 2 and another one if you do
> the same in reverse order. The commands for this action are saved in
> token register and came into action if this class switch appear in the
> document.

ok, i remember jonathan talking about it at bachotek

> the unicode-letters file from XeTeX define a class for quotation,
> punctutation ... in CJK and another one for the other CJK characters
> and define spacing and linebreaking between normal characters and
> punctuation now by the class number (you did something similiar in your
> chinese module but used active characters instead).

the problem with such mechanisms is limited options for lookahead and 
look back

> The XeTeX reference manual has a simple example of this concept on page
> 10 and 11.
> 
> http://tug.ctan.org/info/xetexref/XeTeX-reference.pdf
> 
> can't  this be done in LuaTeX with nodes (or what you mentioned for
> your color modell) or something similar.

injecting tokens into the nodelist is no option, since at that stage 
tokenization already has been done; so it should happen earlier, during 
tokenization, which can be kind of messy, because even then we're 
talking of

a\beta c -> a\char[beta]c (no further expansion) -> inject expanded 
stuff before, after each chartoken or \char token -> convert tokens to 
nodes

sure, i can implement such an injector (since it's tokens, it should 
haven in the input stream somehow, operating on node lists is kind of 
messy in that case because tokens need to be expanded) but we're not 
going to use that method in mkiv. It's one of those areas where xetex 
and luatex support differs a lot.

> but I am too lazy to rename files or create them always by hand with
> every update ...

that's what scripting is fore, after all, format generation in tex 
engines is not automated at all (one has to manage moving fmt files to 
the right place anyway)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:34:10 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> > Version 0.997 of XeTeX introduced a new concept to assign every
> > character a class value. You can define rules what should happen if you
> > switch for example from class 1 to class 2 and another one if you do
> > the same in reverse order. The commands for this action are saved in
> > token register and came into action if this class switch appear in the
> > document.
> 
> ok, i remember jonathan talking about it at bachotek
> 
> > the unicode-letters file from XeTeX define a class for quotation,
> > punctutation ... in CJK and another one for the other CJK characters
> > and define spacing and linebreaking between normal characters and
> > punctuation now by the class number (you did something similiar in your
> > chinese module but used active characters instead).
> 
> the problem with such mechanisms is limited options for lookahead and 
> look back
> 
> > The XeTeX reference manual has a simple example of this concept on page
> > 10 and 11.
> > 
> > http://tug.ctan.org/info/xetexref/XeTeX-reference.pdf
> > 
> > can't  this be done in LuaTeX with nodes (or what you mentioned for
> > your color modell) or something similar.
> 
> injecting tokens into the nodelist is no option, since at that stage 
> tokenization already has been done; so it should happen earlier, during 
> tokenization, which can be kind of messy, because even then we're 
> talking of
> 
> a\beta c -> a\char[beta]c (no further expansion) -> inject expanded 
> stuff before, after each chartoken or \char token -> convert tokens to 
> nodes
> 
> sure, i can implement such an injector (since it's tokens, it should 
> haven in the input stream somehow, operating on node lists is kind of 
> messy in that case because tokens need to be expanded) but we're not 
> going to use that method in mkiv. It's one of those areas where xetex 
> and luatex support differs a lot.

this would be nice because many chinese and japanese fonts have very
ugly characters for normal latin texts and would be nice to choose
another font for them.

The second point is some it often neccesary to choose differents fonts
for arabic, greek ... and this method can used to switch to the
corresponding font without inserting font switching commands in the
text but handle this with character classes.

> > but I am too lazy to rename files or create them always by hand with
> > every update ...
> 
> that's what scripting is fore, after all, format generation in tex 
> engines is not automated at all (one has to manage moving fmt files to 
> the right place anyway)

this mean is should learn a scripting language.

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 9/23/07, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> this would be nice because many chinese and japanese fonts have very
> ugly characters for normal latin texts and would be nice to choose
> another font for them.
>
> The second point is some it often neccesary to choose differents fonts
> for arabic, greek ... and this method can used to switch to the
> corresponding font without inserting font switching commands in the
> text but handle this with character classes.

I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly. So
you can say "please take this region from Arial, another region from
some Greek fonts, and yet another from Chineese, perhaps some more
characters from somewhere else ... And then you can use a single font
for everything. (Don't ask me how this can be done, though.)

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly.

  That's the virtual fonts Hans mentioned (like a vf in good ol' TeX,
but on the fly, as you say). See section 5.2 of the LuaTeX manual (pp.
70-72 as of September 18th), especially the last one with an example.

	Arthur
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Hans Hagen]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly.
> 
>   That's the virtual fonts Hans mentioned (like a vf in good ol' TeX,
> but on the fly, as you say). See section 5.2 of the LuaTeX manual (pp.
> 70-72 as of September 18th), especially the last one with an example.

for those interested in the development history of luatex (and way it 
evolves) ...

http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf

(occasionally chapters are added; it's also one of our standard tests 
for new luatex binaries and mkiv formats)


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:45:41 -0600, Mojca Miklavec  
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/23/07, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> this would be nice because many chinese and japanese fonts have very
>> ugly characters for normal latin texts and would be nice to choose
>> another font for them.
>>
>> The second point is some it often neccesary to choose differents fonts
>> for arabic, greek ... and this method can used to switch to the
>> corresponding font without inserting font switching commands in the
>> text but handle this with character classes.
>
> I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly. So
> you can say "please take this region from Arial, another region from
> some Greek fonts, and yet another from Chineese, perhaps some more
> characters from somewhere else ... And then you can use a single font
> for everything. (Don't ask me how this can be done, though.)

Let's get even more funky: we could define "text direction classes" such  
that switching from LR to RL automatically switches from, say, the latin  
group (or cyrillic) to the arabic group (or hebrew), and direction  
switching could be done using the appropriate unicode characters instead  
of control sequences (ie, unicode direction charaters should be made  
active).

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On 9/23/07, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>> this would be nice because many chinese and japanese fonts have very
>> ugly characters for normal latin texts and would be nice to choose
>> another font for them.
>>
>> The second point is some it often neccesary to choose differents fonts
>> for arabic, greek ... and this method can used to switch to the
>> corresponding font without inserting font switching commands in the
>> text but handle this with character classes.
> 
> I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly. So
> you can say "please take this region from Arial, another region from
> some Greek fonts, and yet another from Chineese, perhaps some more
> characters from somewhere else ... And then you can use a single font
> for everything. (Don't ask me how this can be done, though.)

the code is there, but i need to make a proper user interface in context 
  for which i need some "really deep thoughts"

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:45:41 -0600, Mojca Miklavec  
> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/23/07, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>> this would be nice because many chinese and japanese fonts have very
>>> ugly characters for normal latin texts and would be nice to choose
>>> another font for them.
>>>
>>> The second point is some it often neccesary to choose differents fonts
>>> for arabic, greek ... and this method can used to switch to the
>>> corresponding font without inserting font switching commands in the
>>> text but handle this with character classes.
>> I guess that in LuaTeX you can "compose your own font" on the fly. So
>> you can say "please take this region from Arial, another region from
>> some Greek fonts, and yet another from Chineese, perhaps some more
>> characters from somewhere else ... And then you can use a single font
>> for everything. (Don't ask me how this can be done, though.)
> 
> Let's get even more funky: we could define "text direction classes" such  
> that switching from LR to RL automatically switches from, say, the latin  
> group (or cyrillic) to the arabic group (or hebrew), and direction  
> switching could be done using the appropriate unicode characters instead  
> of control sequences (ie, unicode direction charaters should be made  
> active).

didn't i send you the code for that trick a while ago?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: waiting for mswincontext / injecting

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:01:16 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>> Let's get even more funky: we could define "text direction classes" such
>> that switching from LR to RL automatically switches from, say, the latin
>> group (or cyrillic) to the arabic group (or hebrew), and direction
>> switching could be done using the appropriate unicode characters instead
>> of control sequences (ie, unicode direction charaters should be made
>> active).
>
> didn't i send you the code for that trick a while ago?

Indeed, I was just placing it in Wofgang's context -)

Idris
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Recommendations for Speed?

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Duane,

Duane Johnson wrote:
> 
> 1. Is there a way to keep TeX in-memory (i.e. as a server or daemon  
> process) so that it doesn't have to load and reload fonts and the  
> environment?  Our system makes repeated requests for typeset  
> documents and we are wondering if there's a way to remove the  
> overhead of re-running pdftex.

No, there is not (at least not using any of the 'stock' tex
distributions). The one thing you could do is preload the fonts
and modules you need into the format file, but setting this up
is not completely trivial either.

> 2. Among the many different command-line TeX options, what might  
> optimize for speed?  I've done some rudimentary benchmarking and  
> found that executing etex (without conTeXt) is much faster than  
> texexec, and wondered if there is any advice in this area.  Is there  
> any way to shave off some of the overhead of using conTeXt?

You can only get rid of texexec and the .tuo|.tui handling if you
do not need any kind of referencing at all in your document. If
that is the case, you can run texexec with the --once switch, and
that will help speed up run time quite a bit.

texexec (without --once) will typically run the tex engine one time
too many to make sure that all references are correctly resolved,
so if you know behorehand how many runs are needed, you can speed
up by eliminating that last run.

> 3. I've noticed that there is some kind of caching going on (tui/tuo  
> files?) that helps speed things up after the first run.  How can I  
> best take advantage of this facility?  What kinds of things will  
> require TeX to start from scratch, vs. use some or all of this cached  
> information?

The information in the tui file is not really cached, it is needed
for cross references.

> 4. Are there any other areas I should consider when looking for ways  
> to use TeX as an on-demand typesetting engine?

The best way right now to do general typesetting on demand using TeX
is by creating asynchronous jobs. If that is not an option, then for
the general case, you could consider paying (or hiring) a TeX developer
to implement a daemon feature. Or you could out-source the whole affair:
I know Pragma-ADE (Hans' company) has plans to set up a typesetting-
on-demand service.

I have found that in most specific cases, you can simplify by using
either a dedicated format that runs on a bare-boned tex engine, or by 
just simply having people wait a while.

Of course, it all depends on your actual situation.

Best wishes,
Taco



___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Recommendations for Speed?

[Duane Johnson]

Hello,

I've been perusing the list archives for a couple of days now, and  
reading up on articles (such as Hans' regarding optimizing in TeX and  
eTeX) to find guidance on a handful of decisions.  Our company makes  
a web-based publishing solution called MemoryPress.com that uses  
conTeXt for on-demand creation of PDFs which are then converted to  
jpeg format for display in a web browser.

We are currently looking into ways to speed things up and since many  
of you are far more qualified than I am in this area, I wondered if  
you might advise me on the following:

1. Is there a way to keep TeX in-memory (i.e. as a server or daemon  
process) so that it doesn't have to load and reload fonts and the  
environment?  Our system makes repeated requests for typeset  
documents and we are wondering if there's a way to remove the  
overhead of re-running pdftex.

2. Among the many different command-line TeX options, what might  
optimize for speed?  I've done some rudimentary benchmarking and  
found that executing etex (without conTeXt) is much faster than  
texexec, and wondered if there is any advice in this area.  Is there  
any way to shave off some of the overhead of using conTeXt?

3. I've noticed that there is some kind of caching going on (tui/tuo  
files?) that helps speed things up after the first run.  How can I  
best take advantage of this facility?  What kinds of things will  
require TeX to start from scratch, vs. use some or all of this cached  
information?

4. Are there any other areas I should consider when looking for ways  
to use TeX as an on-demand typesetting engine?

Thank you,

Duane Johnson
Programming Manager
FamilyLearn
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________