still waiting for mswincontext

still waiting for mswincontext

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello,

Let me ask a few questions:

1) When "big things" will be regenerated?  I'm still waiting for mswincontext with updated binaries.

2) What  is the difference between mswincontext and mswintex packages? 

3) If someone made mswincontext to work with latest updates, can he or she post how? After September 10 update of cont-tfm my installation produces broken pdfs, and even getting latest luatex from sourge didn't help.

Best regards,
Vaytcheslav Yatskovsky

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 9/24/07, Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Let me ask a few questions:
>
> 1) When "big things" will be regenerated?  I'm still waiting for mswincontext with updated binaries.

I cannot answer that since it's Hans's decision. But I can assure you
that a lot has been happenng in the meantime, esp. considering font
loading. However, no matter how many iterations of bug reporting & bug
fixing happen, new and new problems keep arising. Font loading in
XeTeX has been broken since February (since the first tries to support
OpenType LM instead of old TFM variants) and has only partially been
fixed until now. And now, when finally the support has been improved,
new problems have arised.

Note that also three really important fixes have been added to XeTeX
recently, so ConTeXt works much better with XeTeX 0.997.

> 2) What  is the difference between mswincontext and mswintex packages?

mswincontext also includes scite. Perhap's there's more that I'm not
aware of, but the rest should be pretty the same. mswintex only
includes binaries. You also need to download justtex.

> 3) If someone made mswincontext to work with latest updates, can he or she post how? After September 10 update of cont-tfm my installation produces broken pdfs, and even getting latest luatex from sourge didn't help.

It's the ConTeXt distribution, not the binaries which are broken.

You can download
    http://minimals.contextgarden.net/bin/windows/rsync/
and then use
    rsync -rvzctl rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/minimals/windows/
  your-folder
for the majority of the standard minimals or
    rsync -rvzctl rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/context/beta/   your-folder
to get only a working version of ConTeXt or
    rsync -rvzctl rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/os/windows/   your-folder
to get only the binaries.

But it's all in an experimental stage, and it's far from complete, so
take this only as a temporary solution. The structure of "minimals"
will change, that's for sure, but you can use it now to compile your
documents.

But note that there are still some problems:
- wrong font size in XeTeX
- textext("...") in metapost doesn't work
- most probably others, not yet discovered

Mojca
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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> Note that also three really important fixes have been added to XeTeX
> recently, so ConTeXt works much better with XeTeX 0.997.

the bottom line is, that we need to make sure that we hav ethe most 
recent bins for all platforms before we can generate minimals

> It's the ConTeXt distribution, not the binaries which are broken.

i'm a bit puzzled ... for pdftex, nothing changed, for luatex, indeed 
bins and zips need to be in sync (esp because there have been changes in 
the lua font code that needed adaptions in the mkiv code) and xetex ... 
well, that's an interplay between engine and macros and trying to adapt

i think that luatex and xetex are fast moving targets so in most cases 
one needs to have updates of them and macro packages in sync; xetexs 
font syntax has changed over time, currently a feature was added to 
intercept problems but this is only on the latest bins, font searching 
is very engine dependent and also to some extend os dependent 
(upper/lowercase) etc etc

anyhow, the dust will probably settle in a few weeks (new bins available 
everywhere)

a tricky area is metapost ... since mp cannot handle open type we need 
to bend the rules sometimes and do ugly workarounds but we're getting there

> But note that there are still some problems:
> - wrong font size in XeTeX

more a xetex problem

> - textext("...") in metapost doesn't work

will never work completely if one uses different fonts in xetex and 
metapost in one document (well, it can work, but one had to make sure 
that the map stuff is sorted out then)

> - most probably others, not yet discovered

we'll try to keep them hidden -)

Hans

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello Hans,

Could you please answer my questions about recent Windows minimal? 

1) Why we need to set almost all in setuptex.bat, while the same vars (except Windows' PATH) are already set in texmf.cnf? 

2) How can I get rid of LM (and other) fonts completely? I want to use solely luatex and system fonts, but bound to have those monsters too. 

My area of interest is luatex only, since it is progressive, font-tolerant and powerful. :o)

-- 
Best regards,
Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> Hello Hans,
> 
> Could you please answer my questions about recent Windows minimal? 
> 
> 1) Why we need to set almost all in setuptex.bat, while the same vars (except Windows' PATH) are already set in texmf.cnf? 

well, this is not recent, but has aways been the case; in setuptex i 
make sure that no conflicts can arise between different trees; so one 
can have multiple trees installed, without clashed; you don't wanna know 
what can happen (and how much time it costs to find out and fix) if some 
installer has set variables at the outer shell level; i just don't want 
to take any risk here

> 2) How can I get rid of LM (and other) fonts completely? I want to use solely luatex and system fonts, but bound to have those monsters too. 

just delete them but i would not delete the lm since they're used as 
fallbacks; if you want to default to something else, you need to tweak 
the initializations (maybe some day when the gyre math fonts are there 
i'll provide something for that); keep in mind that many tex users use 
tex for math and not having set up math will break al lot then

> My area of interest is luatex only, since it is progressive, font-tolerant and powerful. :o)

well, the overhead of lm is not that large (maybe someday i'll ship zips 
and run the fonts from zips); a few cjk fonts in your system font path 
take more space -)

Hans

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello Hans,

Just noticed that when making formats luatools skips texmf.cnt in both subtrees. Does it mean that .cnf files are not needed anymore by luatex, and it relies only on environmental vars?

Best regards,
Vyatcheslav

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luatex for random numbers

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello friends,

I have a small but urgent question. 

How to call luatex commands in the document? (I heard there were some recent changes.) More specifically, how to generate integer random numbers in given range? I'm preparing a quiz on numbering systems for my students on tomorrow, so your fast help would be greatly appreciated! :)

Best regards,
Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky

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Re: luatex for random numbers

[Hans Hagen]

Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> Hello friends,
> 
> I have a small but urgent question. 
> 
> How to call luatex commands in the document? (I heard there were some recent changes.) More specifically, how to generate integer random numbers in given range? I'm preparing a quiz on numbering systems for my students on tomorrow, so your fast help would be greatly appreciated! :)

\startluacode

\stopluacode

\ctxlua{...}

whatever you like

tex.sprint(someresult) pipes back into tex


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Re: luatex for random numbers

[Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky]

Hello Hans,

Thanks. Is there any way to print a number in hex or bin form? (Either using lua or tex facilities?) I already know how to generate random integer numbers, 
\ctxlua{tex.print(math.random(30,60)) ;}
now I need to represent them as binary or hexadecimal.

-- 
Best regards,
Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky

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Re: luatex for random numbers

[Hans Hagen]

Vyatcheslav Yatskovsky wrote:
> Hello Hans,
> 
> Thanks. Is there any way to print a number in hex or bin form? (Either using lua or tex facilities?) I already know how to generate random integer numbers, 
> \ctxlua{tex.print(math.random(30,60)) ;}
> now I need to represent them as binary or hexadecimal.

you can use string.format

if you wanna use lua seriously, it makes sense to buy the book ... easy 
reading, very complete and inexpensive

Hans

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 9/26/07, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > 1) Why we need to set almost all in setuptex.bat, while the same vars (except Windows' PATH) are already set in texmf.cnf?
>
> well, this is not recent, but has aways been the case; in setuptex i
> make sure that no conflicts can arise between different trees; so one
> can have multiple trees installed, without clashed; you don't wanna know
> what can happen (and how much time it costs to find out and fix) if some
> installer has set variables at the outer shell level; i just don't want
> to take any risk here

So what environment variables can I set globally to avoid the need for
running setuptex.bat?  My first guess is:

OSFONTDIR=%SystemRoot%\fonts
SETUPTEX=done
CTXMINIMAL=yes

TEXPATH=C:\...<whatever the path is>...\context\tex\
TEXMFMAIN=%TEXPATH%\texmf

TEXMFOS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-mswin
TEXMFPROJECT=%TEXPATH%\texmf-project
TEXMFFONTS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-fonts
TEXMFLOCAL=%TEXPATH%\texmf-local
TEXMFEXTRA=%TEXPATH%\texmf-extra

TEXMFCNF=%TEXPATH%\texmf{-local,}\web2c
TEXPOOL=%TEXMFOS%/web2c\{$engine,}
TEXFORMATS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}
MPMEMS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}
MPPOOL=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}

Path=%TEXMFOS%\BIN;%Path%

TEXMFCACHE=%TEMP%
VARTEXMF=%TEXMFCACHE%\texmf-var

TEXMF={$TEXMFOS,$TEXMFPROJECT,$TEXMFFONTS,$TEXMFLOCAL,$TEXMFEXTRA,!!$TEXMFMAIN}
TEXMFDBS=$TEXMF


RUBYLIB=%TEXMFLOCAL%\SCRIPTS\CONTEXT\RUBY;
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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On 9/26/07, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>> 1) Why we need to set almost all in setuptex.bat, while the same vars (except Windows' PATH) are already set in texmf.cnf?
>> well, this is not recent, but has aways been the case; in setuptex i
>> make sure that no conflicts can arise between different trees; so one
>> can have multiple trees installed, without clashed; you don't wanna know
>> what can happen (and how much time it costs to find out and fix) if some
>> installer has set variables at the outer shell level; i just don't want
>> to take any risk here
> 
> So what environment variables can I set globally to avoid the need for
> running setuptex.bat?  My first guess is:
> 
> OSFONTDIR=%SystemRoot%\fonts

if you want to use platform fonts indeed

> SETUPTEX=done
> CTXMINIMAL=yes

not if setuptex is not used


> TEXPATH=C:\...<whatever the path is>...\context\tex\
> TEXMFMAIN=%TEXPATH%\texmf
> 
> TEXMFOS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-mswin
> TEXMFPROJECT=%TEXPATH%\texmf-project
> TEXMFFONTS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-fonts
> TEXMFLOCAL=%TEXPATH%\texmf-local
> TEXMFEXTRA=%TEXPATH%\texmf-extra

depends on your trees

> TEXMFCNF=%TEXPATH%\texmf{-local,}\web2c

handy indeed

> TEXPOOL=%TEXMFOS%/web2c\{$engine,}

not for luatex/xetex

> TEXFORMATS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}

not for luatex

> MPMEMS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}

depends

> MPPOOL=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}

not needed any more

> Path=%TEXMFOS%\BIN;%Path%

sure

> TEXMFCACHE=%TEMP%

yes or use the defaults

> VARTEXMF=%TEXMFCACHE%\texmf-var

not really used

> TEXMF={$TEXMFOS,$TEXMFPROJECT,$TEXMFFONTS,$TEXMFLOCAL,$TEXMFEXTRA,!!$TEXMFMAIN}

yes

> TEXMFDBS=$TEXMF

dependes on kpse version i think

> 
> RUBYLIB=%TEXMFLOCAL%\SCRIPTS\CONTEXT\RUBY;

often not needed

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 9/30/07, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > So what environment variables can I set globally to avoid the need for
> > running setuptex.bat?  My first guess is:
<snip>
> > SETUPTEX=done
> > CTXMINIMAL=yes
>
> not if setuptex is not used

CTXMINIMAL is also not needed?

> > TEXPATH=C:\...<whatever the path is>...\context\tex\
> > TEXMFMAIN=%TEXPATH%\texmf
> >
> > TEXMFOS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-mswin
> > TEXMFPROJECT=%TEXPATH%\texmf-project
> > TEXMFFONTS=%TEXPATH%\texmf-fonts
> > TEXMFLOCAL=%TEXPATH%\texmf-local
> > TEXMFEXTRA=%TEXPATH%\texmf-extra
>
> depends on your trees

Using the directory tree as stored in mswincontext as my starting point.

> > TEXPOOL=%TEXMFOS%/web2c\{$engine,}
>
> not for luatex/xetex
>
> > TEXFORMATS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}
>
> not for luatex
>
> > MPMEMS=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}
>
> depends
>
> > MPPOOL=%TEXMFOS%\web2c\{$engine,}
>
> not needed any more

But setuptex still sets these.  What does it mean, that TEXPOOL &al.
aren't needed for luatex/xetex?  Does MKII need them?

> > TEXMF={$TEXMFOS,$TEXMFPROJECT,$TEXMFFONTS,$TEXMFLOCAL,$TEXMFEXTRA,!!$TEXMFMAIN}
>
> yes
>
> > TEXMFDBS=$TEXMF
>
> dependes on kpse version i think

I've been using %var% notation for parts that Windows expands when the
variable is defined, but I see UNIX-style $var here and there.  Should
these be expanded at define-time also, or are these for the programs
that use them to understand?

I've got Perl, Python, and Ruby installed, & I'm using mswincontext
and upgrades thereto as the only TeX distribution on the machine; I'd
like it to work as smoothly as MiKTeX does where it's installed --
i.e., replace setuptex with a machine-global set-up.  And I'm willing
to jump through some hoops to find the "right way" so installation can
be made easier for others

--Joel
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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Hans Hagen]

Joel C. Salomon wrote:

> CTXMINIMAL is also not needed?

depends on if it used, not if you go real minimal (more for calling scripts)

> But setuptex still sets these.  What does it mean, that TEXPOOL &al.
> aren't needed for luatex/xetex?  Does MKII need them?

not related to mkiv/mkii but to engines ... liatex has no pool file, 
xetex neither, pdftex soon will have no pool file and modern metaposts 
also lacks such a file


> I've been using %var% notation for parts that Windows expands when the
> variable is defined, but I see UNIX-style $var here and there.  Should
> these be expanded at define-time also, or are these for the programs
> that use them to understand?

$whatever is kpse syntax (which is some derivate to unix scripting)

anyhow. %whatever% will be xpanded by the env var handler, and $whatever 
not, (on linux it may expand depending on escaping

Hans

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Re: still waiting for mswincontext

[Joel C. Salomon]

So, to sum up: The tex engines should be accessible via PATH,
OSFONTDIR is really handy; other than that only TEXPATH and TEXMF* are
needed, since "pool files" (whatever they are) are on the way out.

Seems straightforward enough, if that's complete.

Is there any real point to creating an NSIS or Inno Setup install
program for mswincontext, or is someone working onthat already?  They
both handle environment variables nicely, I've heard.

--Joel
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