From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/37864 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hans Hagen Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: TeX ligatures in XeTeX/LuaTeX: ``who needs them''? Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:41:12 +0100 Message-ID: <475CFBA8.6060009@wxs.nl> References: <6faad9f00712081404h160264b4h1802480d1140f32a@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1197287500 20864 80.91.229.12 (10 Dec 2007 11:51:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:51:40 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Dec 10 12:51:50 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J1hAj-00081F-05 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:51:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D91FC27; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:51:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17366-03-12; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:50:30 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6005F1FA2B; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:07 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2ED31FB38 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:45:56 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16653-01-2 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:44:34 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail.pragma-ade.net (dsl-083-247-100-017.solcon.nl [83.247.100.17]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4FA1FB0A for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:41:31 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from [10.100.1.100] (unverified [10.100.1.100]) by controller-1 (SurgeMail 3.7b8) with ESMTP id 371 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:41:20 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) In-Reply-To: X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com r=-274017400 X-Authenticated-User: hagen@controller-1 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:37864 Archived-At: Maur=ED=ADcio wrote: > > Hello, > > > > just wondering: how many ConTeXt-ers depend on ligatures such as: > > '' (double quote) and '' (two single quotes) -> right double quote > > `` -> left double quote > > ,, -> DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK > > (...) > = > You got replies from experienced users, so I > thought you could use an answer from a > begginer; there are many of us out there! > = > Really, all of those are problems to me, even > -- and ---. If you have ligatures at all, you > have to take some (a lot) of time to learn > how they work, and which ones are available, > and how to avoid them when you need. > = > I would really like if we could replace > ligatures for a nice page, linked from the > "first steps" documentation, explaining the > most interesting Unicode characters and when > to use them properly. I've just read about > U+2010=962015 in wikipedia pages about hyphens > and dashes, and I wish I were directed to > those pages instead of everything I've read > about ligatures so far. > = > I'm not a professional user of Context, so of > course you'll take that into account as you > consider what I say. actually, what is called ligatures here, are no ligatures in the real = sense; they are tricks that use the tex ligature mechanism to achieve = something (the fi ligature came out of f + i written in sequence but = nobody in the past ever wrore, by pen, three -'s separated by a small = space in a row, it's was just a longer rule) by adding a hyphen+hyphen=3Dendash and endash+hyphen=3Demdash rule in the = (first) characters ligature table in the tfm file, one could save typing this solution is a very english-language oriented one, because in quite = some languages --- happens less often than characters with accents or = whateve; i wonder what would have happened if tex had initially been = written for another language because if the tfm file could have dealt = with > 256 characters "u -> uumlaut would have made sense as pseudo = ligature too ... sometimes it's even hard to get rid of such pseudo ligs ... in documents = coded in xml, --- really is --- and it' snear to impossible in = traditional tex to selectively get rid of it ... so, apart from remapping the weird single quote and the en/emdashes (too = many docs around) is no real reason for the other ones ... Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________