Re: MKIV Chinese typesetting

[Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:

>   Thanks for this comprehensive review.  If I'm not mistaken, there is
> no specific code for CJKV typesetting in Mark IV; the examples in mk.pdf
> seem to use the generic font loading mechanism.
> 
>   I would like to answer more completely, but don't have much time for
> the moment.  About some of your remarks:

actually, there is code in there but you need to specify chinese as feature

\definefontfeature
   [chinese-traditional]
   [mode=node,script=hang,lang=zht]
\definefontfeature
   [chinese-simple]
   [mode=node,script=hang,lang=zhs]


>> so I think a new feature should be added to map all the Chinese puncts
>> into english while at the same time, a space should be added after the
>> English punct marks.

>   Would it not be better to automatically add shrinkable glue after
> Chinese punctuation, rather than replacing the character by force?  This
> would be very much in line with the general TeX philosophy of setting
> text (and would probably suppress the need for half-width forms in the
> font altogether).

there are penalties and glus nodes injected (based on specs given by 
some users)

>> - pp118, penultimate example, box 2, line1, the ' punct mark should
>> not appear at the end of the line

probably an old mk.pdf (i'm awating some feedback before i post a new one)

>   This should be taken care of by adding an appropriate penalty before
> the character.

adding penalties is done based on a couple of tables

>> - pp118, ultimate example, box 2, line2, in fact, if you want do
>> perfect Chinese typesetting, all the puncts which begin a line or end
>> a line should be closed to the margin line
> 
>   Do you mean simply closer to the margin, or in the margin itself
> (protruding)? Protruding is already possible in pdfTeX; I believe it is
> available in LuaTeX as well, although it might be broken for the moment
> (Taco?).  Setting the character closer to the margin should be possible
> as well, as a modified form of protruding, I trust.

thisis always a bit of a trade off; i use samples with small width so at 
some point you run into tex optimizing situations; i'll make things 
configurable

>> A small skip should be left between Chinese and English which makes
>> the result much better. usually the space is a quarter of a chinese
>> character width. A TeX expression should like:
>> \hspace{0.25em plus 0.125em minus 0.08em}
> 
>   Again, this can be taken care of by automatically adding this glue
> between pairs of character of the appropriate category.
> 
>> The last important thing for English and Chinese bi-lingual
>> typesetting is that: do not use English glyphs in Chinese fonts
> 
>   Sure, there should be a possibility of specifying a Western font to be
> used inside Chinese text.

font swichting; i still have to look into mixed fonts

>> - the following script produce an error: Invalid field id penalty for
>> node type glyph (1).
> 
>   I don't have that error here.  This is very big font; are you sure it
> has been read entirely and correctly written to the cache?  Lua crashed
> on my machine when I first compiled your example, and only a partial
> font hash was written to the cache (ConTeXt didn't crash, so the first
> compilation apparently ended well, but the cache was already filled with
> a partial font).  I can imagine that problems will arise in the presence
> of a partially hashed font in the cache.
> 
>   Anyway, the code looks quite weird to me:
> 
>> \definefontfeature[chinese][mode=node,script=hang,lang=zht,script=hani,lang=dlft]
> 
>   This means that you activate two different scripts at the same time
> (hang == Hangul and hani == Han ideographs), and also two languages at
> the same time (zht == Chinese Traditional and dlft is probably a typo
> for dflt == default).  I can't imagine what that is supposed to mean,
> and activating Traditional Chinese is probably wrong with Adobe Song Std
> which is a Simplified Chinese font.  A saner definition of that feature
> would be in my opinion:

indeed this disables chinese ...

> 	\definefontfeature[chinese-traditional][mode=node,script=hani,lang=zhs]
> 
>   I know this code comes from mk.pdf, but I think it is a mistake.
> 
>   Finally, there is an interesting article by Jin-Hwan Cho (the dvipdfmx
> author) and Haruhiko Okumura about CJKV typesetting with Omega a couple
> of years ago.  They have implemented all of the rules you mention above
> and a bit more; and although they used OTPs at the time, it should be
> quite straighforward to transpose it in Lua code (actually, I've done it
> a couple of months ago, but I have used plain LuaTeX, and in ConTeXt it
> should probably done using node processors or something).

indeed

> 	http://project.ktug.or.kr/omega-cjk/tug2004-preprint.pdf

i'll have a look

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