From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/66165 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gerben Wierda Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source? Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:32:54 +0100 Message-ID: <48304D6D-543A-4F5C-9AE4-06B8A650AEE7@rna.nl> References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0893641872==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1298104416 19291 80.91.229.12 (19 Feb 2011 08:33:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:33:36 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Feb 19 09:33:32 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PqiFw-0002Xx-9r for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203F1CA9FC; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:31 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id sDc4xxMi+KRX; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E92CAA06; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D293CCAA06 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:17 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id L9Cn0nRWaifp for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:06 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (filter4-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.72]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A266CA9FC for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:06 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from smtp-1.concepts.nl (smtp-1.concepts.nl [IPv6:2001:838:2:1::30:124]) by filter4-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p1J8X5tm025119 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:05 +0100 Original-Received: from d594e7d0.dsl.concepts.nl ([213.148.231.208] helo=mail.rna.nl) by smtp-1.concepts.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PqiFS-0008PO-Mn for ntg-context@ntg.nl; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:33:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.rna.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C66474579 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:32:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rna.nl Original-Received: from mail.rna.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vanroodewierda.rna.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XXiI2sb7wQ0X for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:32:54 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from hermione.rna.nl (hermione.rna.nl [192.168.2.86]) by mail.rna.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C91F1474564 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:32:54 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Concepts-MailScanner-Information: Please contact abuse@concepts.nl for more information X-Concepts-MailScanner-ID: 1PqiFS-0008PO-Mn X-Concepts-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Concepts-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-Concepts-MailScanner-From: gerben.wierda@rna.nl X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: No geolocation information available for 2001:838:2:1::30:124 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03E9Ix5cn - 77319740c412 - 20110219 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on IPv6:2001:610:1:80ab:192:87:102:72 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:66165 Archived-At: --===============0893641872== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--177888959 --Apple-Mail-1--177888959 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 18 Feb 2011, at 03:43, Mica Semrick wrote: > Have you considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI = XML or Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, = then you can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using = TEI or docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying = to do) and typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always = happier knowing that I can get as many different output types from a = single source as possible.=20 I use ConTeXt, because for my main project I want detailed influence on = layout and I want to use a lot of the powerful stuff like indexes, = endnotes, footnotes, content, etc.. For a second, much simpler, project = I was thinking about producing EPUB. I rather use only one environment = (TeX, in this case ConTeXt and the Jove editor and make) and rather not = work in multiple environments. So, for me, the start is ConTeXt. G >=20 > BR, > Mica >=20 >=20 > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:10:42 -0700 > From: Daniel Lyons > To: mailing list for ConTeXt users > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dwindows-1252 >=20 >=20 > On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Hans Hagen wrote: >=20 > > On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote: > >> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl: > >>> > >>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was wondering if = there is a > >>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB (next to = normal PDF)? > >>> > >>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with = \setupbackend[export=3Dyes]. > >> > >> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume. > > > > no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another > > > > for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much = more than packaged html + css) >=20 > This would also be useful to me. In my experience, the unpleasant part = of generating ePub is making correctly formatted manifests and putting = them in the right places inside the right kinds of zip files. If ConTeXt = could do this for me, it would certainly make life easier. On the other = hand, it may not be appropriate to bother because there are other tools = that will convert HTML to ePub for you and make the manifests (Calibre, = for example). >=20 > I consider CSS intractable so that's not something I would worry about = ConTeXt generating for me, if it were on the table. >=20 > > going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands = some handywork as the source code is not by definition well structured >=20 >=20 > ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it = makes you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that = necessarily must include almost identical information ;) Of course, = depending on a simplified browser for your document viewing and having = lots of secret failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes = the structure less meaningful than it ought to be. >=20 > You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you = wish, but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the = impression the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to = distress the hardware's memory constraints too much. >=20 > Overall, ePub and Kindle's format strike me as too much and too little = respectively. I should be able to change the font and the formatting, = but I definitely consider HTML + CSS is too much complexity. >=20 > ? > Daniel Lyons >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry = to the Wiki! >=20 > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / = http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > = __________________________________________________________________________= _________ --Apple-Mail-1--177888959 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Have you = considered authoring in something besides context? Say TEI XML or = Docbook, or even markdown (if possible)? If markdown is suitable, then = you can end up with both epub and context at the end. Or if using TEI or = docbook, you can write a map file (something I have been trying to do) = and typeset the xml file directly with context. I'm always happier = knowing that I can get as many different output types from a single = source as possible. 

I use ConTeXt, = because for my main project I want detailed influence on layout and I = want to use a lot of the powerful stuff like indexes, endnotes, = footnotes, content, etc.. For a second, much simpler, project I was = thinking about producing EPUB. I rather use only one environment (TeX, = in this case ConTeXt and the Jove editor and make) and rather not work = in multiple environments. So, for me, the start is = ConTeXt.

G



BR,
Mica


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:10:42 -0700
From: Daniel Lyons <fusion@storytotell.org>
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] EPUB workflow from ConTeXt source?
Message-ID: <D7225= CF0-F6CF-485F-BE01-C8A254EFCA93@storytotell.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dwindows-1252


On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 17-2-2011 8:14, Gerben Wierda wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Am 16.02.2011 um 17:42 schrieb Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to keep working in one format so I was = wondering if there is a
>>>> ConTeXt based workflow/setup that can produce EPUB = (next to normal PDF)?
>>>
>>> With MkIV you can get a xml version of document with = \setupbackend[export=3Dyes].
>>
>> But that XML is not ePUB's XML, I assume.
>
> no, but one can of course convert one kind of xml into another
>
> for epub one has to provice css etc anyway (and epub is not much = more than packaged html + css)

This would also be useful to me. In my experience, the unpleasant part = of generating ePub is making correctly formatted manifests and putting = them in the right places inside the right kinds of zip files. If ConTeXt = could do this for me, it would certainly make life easier. On the other = hand, it may not be appropriate to bother because there are other tools = that will convert HTML to ePub for you and make the manifests (Calibre, = for example).

I consider CSS intractable so that's not something I would worry about = ConTeXt generating for me, if it were on the table.

> going the other way around, processing an epub file also demands = some handywork as the source code is not by definition well = structured


ePub is definitely structured. I would say too structured, since it = makes you provide both a ToC manifest and a navigation manifest that = necessarily must include almost identical information ;) Of course, = depending on a simplified browser for your document viewing and having = lots of secret failover modes to handle poorly formatted documents makes = the structure less meaningful than it ought to be.

You are free to break your document into as many HTML chunks as you = wish, but you are limited to fairly prosaic HTML and CSS. I'm of the = impression the HTML documents generally map onto chapters so as not to = distress the hardware's memory constraints too much.

Overall, ePub and Kindle's format strike me as too much and too little = respectively. I should be able to change the font and the formatting, = but I definitely consider HTML + CSS is too much complexity.

?
Daniel Lyons



------------------------------


= __________________________________________________________________________= _________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please = add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/= mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive =  : http://foundry.sup= elec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
________= __________________________________________________________________________= _

= --Apple-Mail-1--177888959-- --===============0893641872== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============0893641872==--