Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Mojca Miklavec]

>> (/home/diego/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/type-xtx.tex)
>> ! Font \*map7ptrmscss*:=CharterBT-SmallCap at 6.64998pt not loadable:
>> Metric (TFM) file or installed font not found.
>
> That's because of
>
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman [name:CharterBT-Roman] % or: [bchr8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Italic] [name:CharterBT-Italic] % or: [bchri8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Bold] [name:CharterBT-Bold] % or: [bchb8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-BoldItalic]  [name:CharterBT-BoldItalic] % or: [bchbi8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Slanted] [name:CharterBT-Italic] % or: [bchri8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-BoldSlanted] [name:CharterBT-BoldItalic] % or: [bchbi8a]
> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman-Caps]  [name:CharterBT-SmallCap] % or: [bchrc8a]
>
> The fonts are on
>     http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/charter/
> and I can add them, but there is still one problem.
>
> Since fonts are defined this way, you would need to configure
> fc-config to look for fonts in that directory in order to find the
> font. Or one would need to change the definition.
>
> Hans - what would be the implications for LuaTeX if
>    name:CharterBT-Roman
> was changed into
>    file:bchr8a
> ? Not suggesting that yet, only asking.

Now that I'm looking at it again at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Charter:

> This has resulted in derivatives of Bitstream Charter becoming available, including Charis SIL.

What about adding
      http://scripts.sil.org/CharisSILfont
to the distribution, possibly including TeX Live, and replacing the
definitions to use CharisSIL in XeTeX/LuaTeX instead of Bitstream
Charter? The same move that has happened with TeX Gyre? Any comments?
Suggestions?

Mojca
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
> Now that I'm looking at it again at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Charter:
> 
>> This has resulted in derivatives of Bitstream Charter becoming available, including Charis SIL.
> 
> What about adding
>       http://scripts.sil.org/CharisSILfont
> to the distribution, possibly including TeX Live, and replacing the
> definitions to use CharisSIL in XeTeX/LuaTeX instead of Bitstream
> Charter? The same move that has happened with TeX Gyre? Any comments?
> Suggestions?

Good thinking! /me agrees heartily

Taco





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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> (/home/diego/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/type-xtx.tex)
>>> ! Font \*map7ptrmscss*:=CharterBT-SmallCap at 6.64998pt not loadable:
>>> Metric (TFM) file or installed font not found.
>>
>> That's because of
>>
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman [name:CharterBT-Roman] % or: [bchr8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Italic] [name:CharterBT-Italic] % or: [bchri8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Bold] [name:CharterBT-Bold] % or: [bchb8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-BoldItalic]  [name:CharterBT-BoldItalic] % or: [bchbi8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Slanted] [name:CharterBT-Italic] % or: [bchri8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-BoldSlanted] [name:CharterBT-BoldItalic] % or: [bchbi8a]
>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman-Caps]  [name:CharterBT-SmallCap] % or: [bchrc8a]

The last line should be removed, the Charter font on ctan has no
smallcaps and the
style is only commercial available

>> The fonts are on
>>     http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/charter/
>> and I can add them, but there is still one problem.
>>
>> Since fonts are defined this way, you would need to configure
>> fc-config to look for fonts in that directory in order to find the
>> font. Or one would need to change the definition.
>>
>> Hans - what would be the implications for LuaTeX if
>>    name:CharterBT-Roman
>> was changed into
>>    file:bchr8a
>> ? Not suggesting that yet, only asking.

There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.

> Now that I'm looking at it again at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Charter:
>
>> This has resulted in derivatives of Bitstream Charter becoming available, including Charis SIL.
>
> What about adding
>      http://scripts.sil.org/CharisSILfont
> to the distribution, possibly including TeX Live, and replacing the
> definitions to use CharisSIL in XeTeX/LuaTeX instead of Bitstream
> Charter? The same move that has happened with TeX Gyre? Any comments?
> Suggestions?

The fonts include more characters but come without any kerning information.

Wolfgang
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Taco Hoekwater]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.
> 
>> Now that I'm looking at it again at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Charter:
>>
>>> This has resulted in derivatives of Bitstream Charter becoming available, including Charis SIL.
>> What about adding
>>      http://scripts.sil.org/CharisSILfont
>> to the distribution, possibly including TeX Live, and replacing the
>> definitions to use CharisSIL in XeTeX/LuaTeX instead of Bitstream
>> Charter? The same move that has happened with TeX Gyre? Any comments?
>> Suggestions?
> 
> The fonts include more characters but come without any kerning information.

The kerning of Bitstream Charter is so dodgy that this is not
a big loss.

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
>
>
> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>> There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.
>>
>>> Now that I'm looking at it again at
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Charter:
>>>
>>>> This has resulted in derivatives of Bitstream Charter becoming available, including Charis SIL.
>>> What about adding
>>>      http://scripts.sil.org/CharisSILfont
>>> to the distribution, possibly including TeX Live, and replacing the
>>> definitions to use CharisSIL in XeTeX/LuaTeX instead of Bitstream
>>> Charter? The same move that has happened with TeX Gyre? Any comments?
>>> Suggestions?
>>
>> The fonts include more characters but come without any kerning information.
>
> The kerning of Bitstream Charter is so dodgy that this is not
> a big loss.

I have no problem if this is so.

I encountered another problem in my own typescripts for Charis SIL,
I could use the bold style when I use the file name but not for the font name.

Try this:

\starttypescript [serif] [charissil]
  \setups[font:fallback:serif]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [CharisSIL-Regular]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [CharisSIL-Italic]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [CharisSIL-Bold]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [CharisSIL-BoldItalic]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [charissil]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Regular]    [file:CharisSILR]
[features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Italic]     [file:CharisSILI]
[features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Bold]       [file:CharisSILB]
[features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-BoldItalic] [file:CharisSILBI]
[features=default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [charissil]
  \definetypeface [charissil] [rm] [serif] [charissil] [default]
\stoptypescript

\usetypescript[charissil]
\setupbodyfont[charissil]

\starttext

\tf Text

\it Text

\bf Text

\bi Text

\stoptext

I get all four style in the output but when I use the font name in the
definition
the normal bold style is replace by the bolditalic style.


\starttypescript [serif] [charissil]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Regular]    [name:Charis SIL]
   [features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Italic]     [name:Charis SIL Italic]
   [features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-Bold]       [name:Charis SIL Bold]
   [features=default]
  \definefontsynonym [CharisSIL-BoldItalic] [name:Charis SIL Bold
Italic] [features=default]
\stoptypescript

Wolfgang
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman-Caps]  [name:CharterBT-SmallCap] % or: [bchrc8a]
> 
> The last line should be removed, the Charter font on ctan has no
> smallcaps and the
> style is only commercial available

ok, remapped

>>> Hans - what would be the implications for LuaTeX if
>>>    name:CharterBT-Roman
>>> was changed into
>>>    file:bchr8a
>>> ? Not suggesting that yet, only asking.
> 
> There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.

indeed

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>>>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman-Caps]  [name:CharterBT-SmallCap] % or: [bchrc8a]
>>
>> The last line should be removed, the Charter font on ctan has no
>> smallcaps and the
>> style is only commercial available
>
> ok, remapped
>
>>>> Hans - what would be the implications for LuaTeX if
>>>>    name:CharterBT-Roman
>>>> was changed into
>>>>    file:bchr8a
>>>> ? Not suggesting that yet, only asking.
>>
>> There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.
>
> indeed

In that case: it would be much more XeTeX-friendly if filename can be
provided, since XeTeX is not able to search for font names in TeX
trees unless fontconfig is specifically configured that way.

Thanks,
    Mojca
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Re: Bitstream Charter vs. Charis SIL

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>>>> \definefontsynonym [Charter-Roman-Caps]  [name:CharterBT-SmallCap] % or: [bchrc8a]
>>> The last line should be removed, the Charter font on ctan has no
>>> smallcaps and the
>>> style is only commercial available
>> ok, remapped
>>
>>>>> Hans - what would be the implications for LuaTeX if
>>>>>    name:CharterBT-Roman
>>>>> was changed into
>>>>>    file:bchr8a
>>>>> ? Not suggesting that yet, only asking.
>>> There is no difference, the same fonts are loaded, I tried this a month ago.
>> indeed
> 
> In that case: it would be much more XeTeX-friendly if filename can be
> provided, since XeTeX is not able to search for font names in TeX
> trees unless fontconfig is specifically configured that way.

maybe for those extra fonts provide a special definition file for xetex 
then; at the top of the normal file we can do a check for xetex and then 
load another file (it all depends on the quality of the filenames and 
font filenames are often obscure and/or inconsistent)

anyhow, i suppose that this kind of definitions have to go in 
type-sil.tex or so; in that case maybe we also need to define the other 
sil fonts there



Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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