Footnotes

Footnotes

[Ulrich Dirr]

Hi,

I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt:
2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project. I
don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics.

I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use to setup
footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use column sets and
define areas?).

When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the last
column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as an option
they will be placed below the first column but outside the text column at
the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced.

How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the last
column at the end of the page?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
To illustrate what I want (x=text, m=footnote text):

A) If the page is 'full'

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  1. nnnnnnnnnnn
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  2. nnnnnnnnnnn
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  nnnnnnnnnnnnnn

B) If the page is only partially filled:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxx





                1. nnnnnnnnnnn
                2. nnnnnnnnnnn
                nnnnnnnnnnnnnn
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the
text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes should run as
a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging).

I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes, because
they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p. 46;
cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ...

My test file looks like this:
\setuplayout[grid=yes]
\setupbodyfont [9pt]
\setupfootnotes[location=lastcolumn,rule=off,numbercommand=\myfootnotenumber
]
\def\myfootnotenumber#1{#1. }

\starttext
\startcolumns[n=2,tolerance=verytolerant]

Hasselt is an old Hanseatic City, situated 12~km north of Zwolle at
the river Zwartewater.

The city has a long history since obtaining the city charter around
1252. Part and parcel of this history can be traced back to a large
number of monuments to be admired in the city center.\footnote{Erste
Fußnote!}

There you will find the St. Stephanus church, a late gothic church
dating back to 1479 with a magnificent organ. The former Municipal
Building is situated on The Market Place. Constituted between
1500\footnote{Zweite Fußnote! Die kommt immer nach der ersten Fußnote und
ist manchmal viel zu lang.}

Hello World!

\stopcolumns
\stoptext

Best regards,
Ulrich

P.S. the notepad++/context support seems broken with notepad++ v.5.00. I got
TeX as a language but no menu entries for compiling ...


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Footnotes

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi Ulrich,

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt:
> 2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project. I
> don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics.
>
> I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use to setup
> footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use column sets and
> define areas?).
>
> When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the last
> column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as an option
> they will be placed below the first column but outside the text column at
> the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced.
>
> How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the last
> column at the end of the page?

Don't know. AFAIU, (simple) columns do not support this feature. For this 
to be supported, \stopcolumns will also need to end the currentpage. What 
should be the indented output for

\startcolumns
Some short text with footnotes
\stopcolumns

Continue with text that is in single column format.

I do not know whether this is possible with columnsets.

> How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the
> text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes should run as
> a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging).

Add

\setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal,distance=0.5em]

> I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes, because
> they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p. 46;
> cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ...

Yes, at places the documentation is lagging behind. I can write about 
footnotes in the TUGBoat column about ConTeXt.

When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources. Once you figure out 
how to scan them for information, they are easy to understand. In this 
case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are

      [\c!location=\v!page,
       \c!way=\v!by\v!part,
       \c!sectionnumber=\v!no,
       \c!conversion=,
       \c!rule=\v!on,
       \c!before=\blank,
       \c!bodyfont=\v!small,
       \c!style=,
       \c!color=,
       \c!after=,
       \c!rulecolor=,
       \c!rulethickness=\linewidth,
       \c!frame=\v!off,
       \c!margindistance=.5em,
       \c!columndistance=1em,
       \c!distance=.125em,
       \c!align=\v!normal,
       \c!tolerance=\v!tolerant,
       \c!split=\v!tolerant,
      %\c!width=\makeupwidth,
      %\c!width=\ifdim\hsize<\makeupwidth\hsize\else\makeupwidth\fi,
       \c!width=\defaultnotewidth,
       \c!height=\textheight,
       \c!numbercommand=\high,
       \c!command=\noteparameter\c!numbercommand, % downward compatible
       \c!separator=\@@koseparator,
       \c!textcommand=\high,
       \c!textstyle=\tx,
       \c!textcolor=,
       \c!interaction=\v!yes,
       \c!factor=,
       \c!scope=, % \v!text \v!page
       \c!n=1]%


Aditya
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Re: Footnotes

[Ulrich Dirr]

Hi Aditya,

thank you for your help!

On 2008-07-20 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
>> I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt:
>> 2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project.
>> I don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics.
>> 
>> I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use
>> to setup footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use
>> column sets and define areas?).
>> 
>> When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the
>> last column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as
>> an option they will be placed below the first column but outside the
>> text column at the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced.
>> 
>> How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the
>> last column at the end of the page?
[...] 
> I do not know whether this is possible with columnsets.

I will test this with columnsets.
 
>> How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the
>> text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes
>> should run as a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging).
> 
> Add
> 
> \setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal,distance=0.5em]

Ah, interesting. I didn't find this option for location in the docs.

>> I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes,
>> because they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p.
>> 46; cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ...
> 
> Yes, at places the documentation is lagging behind. I can write about
> footnotes in the TUGBoat column about ConTeXt.
> 
> When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources. Once you figure
> out how to scan them for information, they are easy to understand. In
> this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are
> 
>       [\c!location=\v!page,
>        \c!way=\v!by\v!part,
>        \c!sectionnumber=\v!no,
>        \c!conversion=,
>        \c!rule=\v!on,
>        \c!before=\blank,
>        \c!bodyfont=\v!small,
>        \c!style=,
>        \c!color=,
>        \c!after=,
>        \c!rulecolor=,
>        \c!rulethickness=\linewidth,
>        \c!frame=\v!off,
>        \c!margindistance=.5em,
>        \c!columndistance=1em,
>        \c!distance=.125em,
>        \c!align=\v!normal,
>        \c!tolerance=\v!tolerant,
>        \c!split=\v!tolerant,
>       %\c!width=\makeupwidth,
>       %\c!width=\ifdim\hsize<\makeupwidth\hsize\else\makeupwidth\fi,
>        \c!width=\defaultnotewidth, \c!height=\textheight,
>        \c!numbercommand=\high,
>        \c!command=\noteparameter\c!numbercommand, % downward compatible
>        \c!separator=\@@koseparator, \c!textcommand=\high,
>        \c!textstyle=\tx, \c!textcolor=, \c!interaction=\v!yes,
>        \c!factor=, \c!scope=, % \v!text \v!page \c!n=1]%
> 
> 
> Aditya

O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read
'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in
\numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.

Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard paragraph (no
hanging indentation)?

Best regards,
Ulrich



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Re: Footnotes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:

> O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read
> 'location=normal'?

That is just from knowing how the footnotes work. In ConTeXt footnotes 
consist of two this, a number and the note definition. The note definition 
is defined as a description, location=normal is an option for 
descriptions.

>  Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in
> \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.

numbercommand can be any predefined (or one that you define on your 
own) ConTeXt macro. By default, it is \inleft, and hence you see the 
footnotes in the margin. I do not know what split does, but just by seeing 
that by default it is defined to be tolerant, the other options should be
verystrict, strict, tolerant, verytolerant, and they should control how 
the splitting of columns work.

This is the good thing about ConTeXt; key value options are extremently 
consistent, once you know what values a particular key takes for one 
environment, you can guess what it will do for others (well, I could be 
wrong in case of footnotes, but ...)

> Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard paragraph (no
> hanging indentation)?

\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried, distance=0.5em]

Aditya
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Re: Footnotes

[Ulrich Dirr]

Hi Aditya,

Thank you very much for your explanations. Where in the documentation did
you find 'serried'? I think my biggest problem is that I don't know which
values are possible options and what's the meaning (this should be in the
docs I think).

Best regards,
Ulrich

On 2008-07-21 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
> 
>> O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read
>> 'location=normal'?
> 
> That is just from knowing how the footnotes work. In ConTeXt footnotes
> consist of two this, a number and the note definition. The note
> definition is defined as a description, location=normal is an option for
descriptions.
> 
>>  Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in
>> \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I
> understand.
> 
> numbercommand can be any predefined (or one that you define on your
> own) ConTeXt macro. By default, it is \inleft, and hence you see the
> footnotes in the margin. I do not know what split does, but just by
> seeing that by default it is defined to be tolerant, the other options
> should be verystrict, strict, tolerant, verytolerant, and they should
> control how the splitting of columns work.
> 
> This is the good thing about ConTeXt; key value options are
> extremently consistent, once you know what values a particular key
> takes for one environment, you can guess what it will do for others
> (well, I could be wrong in case of footnotes, but ...)
> 
>> Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard
>> paragraph (no hanging indentation)?
> 
> \setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried, distance=0.5em]
> 
> Aditya
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______ _______ If your question is of interest to others as well, please
> add an entry to the Wiki!
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> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-
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> ______ _______


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Re: Footnotes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:

> Hi Aditya,
>
> Thank you very much for your explanations. Where in the documentation did
> you find 'serried'?

serried is in the documentation for desciprtions. texshow also lists 
serried as one of the options for descriptions. I know the options for 
descriptions and enumerations very well because I spent about three months 
in extending enumerations for taking care of theorems and stuff.

> I think my biggest problem is that I don't know which
> values are possible options and what's the meaning (this should be in the
> docs I think).

Most old options are in the docs, many of the new ones are not. The manual 
can never be uptodate with the rate at which ConTeXt is developing, but we 
definitely need to work at specialized manuals which describe one of the 
features of ConTeXt in great detail.


Aditya
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How to read sources? (was:) Footnotes

[Joachim Kreimer-de Fries]

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Goden Dag,
although my primary field of ConTeXt questions is marginal notes, I  
use to read the "footnote" threads on NTG-context with curiousness as  
well .

Am 20.07.2008 um 19:50 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
> When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources.

=> Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one  
says "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life  
distribution on Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't  
find the later mentioned "core-not.tex")

> Once you figure out how to scan them for information,

=> Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must  
that stay a secret?

> they are easy to understand.
[I repeat: "easy to understand"!]

> In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes  
> are
>
>       [\c!location=\v!page,
>        \c!way=\v!by\v!part,
>        \c!sectionnumber=\v!no,
>        \c!conversion=,
>        \c!rule=\v!on,
[etc. and so on...]

Nothing of this and the following code lines I can understand, so it  
is not "easy" - albeit that one knows the syntax and meanings of  
these commands.

=> Where can I find an explanation of this, not to write this kind of  
code myself but to understand off it, which kind of commands I can  
use with footnotes (in this case)?

Ulrich Dirr, who had posed the question about his kind of footnotes  
asked back 21.07.2008 at 09:09:
> O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read
> 'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are allowed,  
> e.g., in
> \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I  
> understand.

I support this question (only that I don't know how to look in the  
sorce yet...)

Goutgaun!
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries,
simpel user and beginner in ConTeXt
P. S.
An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program  
instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the  
hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal  
commands "cd", "ls" and "find"?



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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to read sources?

[Jörg Hagmann]

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
>
> P. S.
> An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program 
> instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden 
> directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands 
> "cd", "ls" and "find"
you can type "open /path/to/the directory you want/" in your terminal,
and then use the finder with the previously hidden dirs.

Cheers, Jörg
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Re: How to read sources?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jörg Hagmann <joerg.hagmann@unibas.ch> wrote:
>
> Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
>>
>> P. S.
>> An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program
>> instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden
>> directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands
>> "cd", "ls" and "find"
> you can type "open /path/to/the directory you want/" in your terminal,
> and then use the finder with the previously hidden dirs.

Finder -> Go -> Goto

Wolfgang
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Re: How to read sources?

[Andrea Valle]

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>
> Finder -> Go -> Goto

Yes, if you know where to go:

Open the Terminal and type

defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles YES

relaunch the Finder and you can see everything
(and back with NO and relaunch)

Best

-a-


>
> Wolfgang
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ntg-context
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> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to read sources? (was:) Footnotes

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jul 21, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:

>
> => Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one  
> says "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life  
> distribution on Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't  
> find the later mentioned "core-not.tex")

It is part of any ConTeXt installation. In a terminal window, type

kpsewhere core-not.tex

and you'll see that you have at least one instance of this file on  
your system. "man kpsewhich" may be interesting to read if you want to  
know how to find files in your TeX installation, possibly more than one.
>
>> Once you figure out how to scan them for information,
>
> => Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must  
> that stay a secret?

You could grep for terms that you're looking for:

grep setupfootnotes /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/tex/context/base/*

> An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program  
> instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the  
> hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal  
> commands "cd", "ls" and "find"?
>
We had an interesting discussion about GUI and command line recently.  
I rest my case: you shouldn't be looking for a GUI tool, but learn to  
use the command line. By the way, there is n option to make the Mac  
Finder display hidden directories, but to enable it, you'll have to  
use the command line...

Thomas
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: How to read sources? (was:) Footnotes

[Andrea Valle]

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>
> => Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must  
> that stay a secret?
>
>> they are easy to understand.
> [I repeat: "easy to understand"!]

I totally agree with you, it's really useless to invite to read the  
sources without providing a tutorial on source reading for non expert  
TeX users.

>
> Ulrich Dirr, who had posed the question about his kind of footnotes  
> asked back 21.07.2008 at 09:09:
>> O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read
>> 'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are  
>> allowed, e.g., in
>> \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I  
>> understand.
>
> I support this question (only that I don't know how to look in the  
> sorce yet...)

Me too

Best

-a-

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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Re: How to read sources? (was:) Footnotes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:

> Goden Dag,
> although my primary field of ConTeXt questions is marginal notes, I use to 
> read the "footnote" threads on NTG-context with curiousness as well .
>
> Am 20.07.2008 um 19:50 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
>> When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources.
>
> => Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one says 
> "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life distribution on 
> Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't find the later mentioned 
> "core-not.tex")


I do not know how the file explorer in Mac works. And I do not know where 
a typical installation installs context in Mac. Suppose it is installed in 
/usr/local/texlive/2007.

The all the context files will be in

/usr/local/texlive/2007/texmf-dist/tex/context/base

Basically, INSTALL-LOCATION/texmf or INTSTALL-LOCATION/texmf-dist or 
INSTALL-LOCATION/texmf-context and then tex/context/base directory inside 
it.

>> Once you figure out how to scan them for information,
>
> => Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must that stay a 
> secret?

The basic idea is to first understand how a particular command is defined. 
Here is what I do: go to tex/context/base directory and search (by any 
means, I use grep, but you can as well use any program that allows you to 
search inside files) for the command you are looking for: in this case 
footnote. You may either get a huge number of results, or a few results. 
If you get a few results, check them manually, to see which file defines a 
command. A command is usually defined as

\def\commandname

or (rarely)

\edef\commandname

\xdef\commandname

\gdef\commandname

or (more frequently)

\define<something>[\v!commandname]

here <something> can be any text.

If your search gives a lot of results, you need to use a regular 
expression to filter it to one of the above. I don't know if Finder in Mac 
allows for regular expressions.

>> they are easy to understand.
> [I repeat: "easy to understand"!]

I know what you mean here :)

>> In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are
>>
>>      [\c!location=\v!page,
>>       \c!way=\v!by\v!part,
>>       \c!sectionnumber=\v!no,
>>       \c!conversion=,
>>       \c!rule=\v!on,
> [etc. and so on...]
>
> Nothing of this and the following code lines I can understand, so it is not 
> "easy" - albeit that one knows the syntax and meanings of these commands.

As far as syntax goes, just ignore those funny \c! \v! thingies. Then you 
can read them as
         [location=page,
          way=bypart,
          sectionnumber=no,
          conversion=,
          rule=on,
        [etc..]

These mean, that

i) Footnotes should be located per page.

ii) They should be numbered per part. That is, if you start a new part, 
footnote numbering restarts.

iii) I don't know what sectionnumber does, so I ignore it.

iv) The number should not be converted to anything. You can convert them 
to characters, Characters, romannumerals, Romannumberals, etc.

v) The footnotes should be proceeded by a rule, etc.

You see, most of the keys for all environments take command key-value 
options. If they are explained in the manual, then great; if they are not, 
start guessing what they mean, and experiment if you get the right 
result. Try three times, and if you don't get hit the right answer, ask on 
the mailing list. Hopefully, someone will reply. Then you know, what a 
particular option does for *all environments*. If you don't get an answer, 
well... then ask what you want to achieve, and hopefully someone will tell 
you if it is possible or not.

> => Where can I find an explanation of this, not to write this kind of code 
> myself but to understand off it, which kind of commands I can use with 
> footnotes (in this case)?

I explained above how I started to understand these things. I am sure that 
other people have different approaches. I do not understand how TeX works, 
but reading ConTeXt sources are much easier than reading latex sources. I 
started with LaTeX, and in LaTeX I could never manage to understand 80% of 
the what was written in the sources. In ConTeXt, I can understand 50-60%, 
that is what I meant my "easy".

Aditya
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