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* Some layout questions
@ 2008-08-26 10:59 Ulrich Dirr
  2008-08-27 14:07 ` Taco Hoekwater
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Dirr @ 2008-08-26 10:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ConTeXt Mailing List

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2877 bytes --]

Hi,

I'm trying to setup context for a book layout but I'm still failing with
some basics (hopefully) ...

\definepapersize[Lasker][width=21cm,height=28cm]
\setuppapersize[Lasker][A4]
\setuplayout[width=172.5mm,lines=53,leftmargin=0mm,rightmargin=0mm,header=12
pt,headerdistance=12pt,footer=12pt,footerdistance=12pt,topspace=20mm,backspa
ce=15mm,grid=yes]
\setupinterlinespace[line=12pt]
\setuppagenumbering [alternative=doublesided,location=header]
\setupindenting[12pt]

Is this o.k. so far?

\setupfootnotes[location=lastcolumn,rule=off,numbercommand=\myfootnotenumber
]
\def\myfootnotenumber#1{#1. }
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal]

This does not work as expected. I want footnotes in the last column of a two
column format at the *bottom*. Both standard twocolumn (via
\startcolumns[n=2]) format fails and also column sets: if I use column sets
(defined with \definecolumnset[example][n=2,balance=yes]) footnotes are in
the left *and* right column or only in the left. If I use \startcolumns[n=2]
footnotes are placed correctly in the right column but not at the bottom of
the page and not aligned on grid.

???

After defining a typescript (see comlete example attached) I want to use
protrusion and expansion (I've followed the description in
co-typography.pdf):

\definetypeface[kievit][rm][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
\definetypeface[kievit][ss][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
\definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
\definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]

\usetypescript[kievit]
\setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
\definefontfeature[default][default]
	[protrusion=pure,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
\setupalign[hanging]

But it doesn't work at all. While with standard two column format line
breaking is like without hz features at all; with columnsets line breaking
is getting even worse. Any idea?

Another question: How can define the amount of indentation and before and
after space of quotations (\setupquotation but how)? Quotation should be set
9/10.5pt. And body text should align on grid before and after a quotation.

How can I define \setupheader so that I got the following:
On a chapter page no header but folio centered in footer, on the following
pages folios on left side if even page and on right side if odd page inside
header. Right part on even pages with "Part n\quad Chapter m" while text of
\chapter in left side of odd pages.

+-----------------------------------+  +---------------------------------+
|8                  Part I Chapter 3|  |Netherlands                     9|
...

Sometimes I have to change this to:
+-----------------------------------+  +---------------------------------+
|11     Part I Chapter 3 Netherlands|  |Subsection Euwe-Lasker         12|
...

If a subsection is present.

Best regards,
Ulrich

P.S. ConTeXt ver: 2008.08.18 14:00 MKIV

[-- Attachment #2: test2.tex --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 7241 bytes --]

\definepapersize[Lasker][width=21cm,height=28cm]
\setuppapersize[Lasker][A4]
\setuplayout[width=172.5mm,lines=53,leftmargin=0mm,rightmargin=0mm,header=12pt,headerdistance=12pt,footer=12pt,footerdistance=12pt,topspace=20mm,backspace=15mm,grid=yes]
\setupinterlinespace[line=12pt]
\setuppagenumbering [alternative=doublesided,location=header]
\setupindenting[12pt]
\setupfootnotes[location=lastcolumn,rule=off,numbercommand=\myfootnotenumber]
\def\myfootnotenumber#1{#1. }
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal]
\setupquote[before=.5\baselineskip,after=.5\baselineskip]
\frenchspacing
\def\stretchedspaceamount{.5bp}

\starttypescript [sans] [kievit]

\definefontfeature[latin-smallcaps][smallcaps][script=latn]

    \definefontsynonym [KievitProRegular]         [name:KievitPro-Regular]         [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [KievitProMedium]          [name:KievitPro-Medium]          [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [KievitProExtraBold]       [name:KievitPro-ExtraBold]       [features=default]
 
    \definefontsynonym [KievitProItalic]          [name:KievitPro-Italic]          [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [KievitProMediumItalic]    [name:KievitPro-MediumItalic]    [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [KievitProExtraBoldItalic] [name:KievitPro-ExtraBoldItalic] [features=default]

\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [kievit]

    \definefontsynonym [Sans]            [KievitProRegular] [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [SansItalic]      [KievitProItalic]  [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [SansBold]        [KievitProMedium]  [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [SansSlanted]     [SansItalic]       [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [SansBoldSlanted] [SansBoldItalic]   [features=default]
    \definefontsynonym [SansCaps]        [Sans]             [features=latin-smallcaps]

\stoptypescript

\definetypeface[kievit][rm][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
\definetypeface[kievit][ss][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
\definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern]  [default][rscale=1.12]
\definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona]   [default][rscale=1.02]

\usetypescript[kievit]
\setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
\definefontfeature[default][default]
	[protrusion=pure,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
\setupalign[hanging]
\definecolumnset[example][n=2,balance=yes]

%\definecolumnsetarea
%[two][both]
%[x=2,y=40,nx=1,ny=4,location=depth,
%background=contrast,state=repeat]

\starttext \showgrid\showlayout%\showframe
%\startcolumns[n=2]%,tolerance=verytolerant]
\startcolumnset[example]

\chapter{Gillam}
Hasselt is an old Hanseatic City, situated 12~km north of Zwolle at
the river Zwartewater.

\section{Nottingham 1936}
The city has a long history since obtaining the city charter around
1252. Part and parcel of this {\it history} can be traced back to a large
number of monuments to be admired in the city center.\footnote{Erste Fußnote!}

\stretchednormalcase{\sc Hello World} 

{\sc Hello Wöćčrld} 
%\column

There you will find the {\bf St. Stephanus} church, a late gothic church
dating back to 1479 with a magnificent organ. The former Municipal
Building is situated on {\bi The Market Place}. Constituted between 1500\footnote{Zweite Fußnote! Die kommt immer nach der ersten Fußnote und ist manchmal viel zu lang.}

Als die Abonnenten der {\it Vossischen Zeitung} am Sonntag, den 4.~Januar 1914 ihr Leibblatt öffneten, fanden sie darin zum ersten Mal eine ausführliche Schachrubrik -- »redigiert von Dr.~Emanuel Lasker«. Gewiss hatte die »Tante Voss« schon früher kleine Schachnachrichten im Lokalteil publiziert, doch eine umfangreiche und mit Partien belegte Schachspalte hatte es vor 1914 nicht gegeben. Nunmehr wandte sich der Schachweltmeister persönlich an die Leser mit einer Vorschau auf kommende Ereignisse: »Das schachliche Programm, das uns das neue Jahr verheißt, vermag jede Erwartung und jeden Geschmack zu befriedigen.«

Nach Hinweisen auf das laufende russische Nationalturnier in Petersburg, das im April geplante internationale Großmeisterturnier daselbst und den für den Sommer angesagten Kongress des Deutschen Schachbunds in Mannheim schloss Lasker mit seinen eigenen Plänen für 1914:

\startquotation
Endlich im Herbst wird das Weltmeistermatch mit Rubinstein stattfinden. Das Programm dafür wird wohl in wenigen Monaten endgültig feststehen. Indessen ist schon jetzt unverkennbar, dass den zwanzig Partien, die da geschaffen werden sollen, in allen Ländern hohes Interesse entgegengebracht wird. Das Ende des Matches soll hier in Berlin vor sich gehen, unter der Ägide der Berliner Schachgesellschaft.
\stopquotation

\startquotation
Ein reiches Programm. Nach dem so dürftigen Jahre, das eben vergangen ist, mögen sich die auf neue Meisterwerke lüsternen Kenner ein hoffnungsfreudiges »Prosit Neujahr!« zurufen.
\stopquotation

Die Eröffnung von Laskers Rubrik fiel mit einem bedeutenden Ereignis auf dem deutschen Zeitungsmarkt zusammen. Vor und nach der Jahrhundertwende waren es vor allem die drei großen Verleger Ullstein, Mosse und Scherl, die um die Gunst der Berliner Leserschaft stritten. In allen drei Verlagen hatte das Schachspiel in Form regelmäßiger Rubriken und aktueller Berichterstattung festen Fuß gefasst. Bekannte Schachmeister waren als freie Mitarbeiter engagiert worden. Jacques Mieses stellte im Mosse-Verlag für das {\it Berliner Tageblatt} die Schachspalte zusammen und Siegbert Tarrasch bearbeitete Partien für die Tageszeitungen des Scherl-Verlags, {\it Berliner Lokal-Anzeiger} und {\it Der Tag}, wo er bei besonderen Anlässen auch seine unverblümten, nicht selten polemischen Stellungnahmen veröffentlichte.

Im Gegensatz zu den meisten Titeln der Konkurrenz war die {\it Vossische Zeitung} über 200 Jahre alt. Trotz hohen Ansehens kämpfte sie jedoch mit rückläufigen Marktanteilen. Zum Jahresanfang 1914 ging die vom Adel und den gebildeten Kreisen Berlins und Brandenburgs geschätzte Zeitung ins Verlagshaus Ullstein über. Gleichzeitig mit der nicht unproblematischen Neulancierung des Blatts\footnote{Ausführlich behandelt im Kapitel »Niedergang und Auferstehung der Tante Voss« in Mendelssohn, {\it Zeitungsstadt Berlin}, S.~211--232.} konnte sich Ullstein die Mitarbeit von Emanuel Lasker sichern. Im Bereich »Schach« hatte die {\it Vossische Zeitung} damit die Konkurrenz eingeholt, wenn nicht gar überholt.

Für die allgemeine Schachberichterstattung war bei Ullstein der Berliner Schachspieler und langjährige Mitarbeiter Willy Koslowski (1877--1975) zuständig.\footnote{Zur Person Koslowskis vgl. {\it DSZ}, Juni 1967, S.~196f. und November 1975, S.~370.} Er hatte bereits in den beiden Zugpferden des Verlagshauses, der {\it Berliner Morgenpost} und der im Straßenverkauf erhältlichen {\it B.Z. am Mittag}\footnote{B.Z. = {\it Berliner Zeitung}}, eine vorbildliche Schachberichterstattung aufgebaut und dabei wiederholt auf Beiträge Laskers zurückgreifen können. Koslowski war es auch, der nun den Weltmeister als Kolumnisten für die {\it Vossische Zeitung} gewinnen konnte.
%\stopcolumns
\stopcolumnset
\stoptext


[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-26 10:59 Some layout questions Ulrich Dirr
@ 2008-08-27 14:07 ` Taco Hoekwater
  2008-08-28  6:43   ` Ulrich Dirr
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-08-27 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ud, mailing list for ConTeXt users

Ulrich Dirr wrote:
> 
> After defining a typescript (see comlete example attached) I want to use
> protrusion and expansion (I've followed the description in
> co-typography.pdf):
> 
> \definetypeface[kievit][rm][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
> \definetypeface[kievit][ss][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
> \definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
> \definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]
> 
> \usetypescript[kievit]
> \setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
> \definefontfeature[default][default]
> 	[protrusion=pure,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]

This line should read:

   \definefontfeature[hz][default]
         [prot....

Afaics, everything else looks ok.

Best wishes,
Taco

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-27 14:07 ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-08-28  6:43   ` Ulrich Dirr
  2008-08-28  8:50     ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2008-08-28  9:05     ` Taco Hoekwater
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Dirr @ 2008-08-28  6:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ConTeXt Mailing List

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Ulrich Dirr wrote:
> >
> > After defining a typescript (see comlete example attached) I want to use
> > protrusion and expansion (I've followed the description in
> > co-typography.pdf):
> >
> > \definetypeface[kievit][rm][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
> > \definetypeface[kievit][ss][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
> > \definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
> > \definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]
> >
> > \usetypescript[kievit]
> > \setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
> > \definefontfeature[default][default]
> > 	[protrusion=pure,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
> 
> This line should read:
> 
>    \definefontfeature[hz][default]
>          [prot....
> 
> Afaics, everything else looks ok.

But has no effect :-(

Best regards,
Ulrich


___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-28  6:43   ` Ulrich Dirr
@ 2008-08-28  8:50     ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2008-08-28  9:05     ` Taco Hoekwater
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-08-28  8:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ud, mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Ulrich Dirr <ud@mucschach.de> wrote:
> Taco Hoekwater wrote:
>> Ulrich Dirr wrote:
>> >
>> > After defining a typescript (see comlete example attached) I want to use
>> > protrusion and expansion (I've followed the description in
>> > co-typography.pdf):
>> >
>> > \definetypeface[kievit][rm][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
>> > \definetypeface[kievit][ss][sans][kievit][default][features=hz]
>> > \definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
>> > \definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]
>> >
>> > \usetypescript[kievit]
>> > \setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
>> > \definefontfeature[default][default]
>> >     [protrusion=pure,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
>>
>> This line should read:
>>
>>    \definefontfeature[hz][default]
>>          [prot....
>>
>> Afaics, everything else looks ok.
>
> But has no effect :-(

\definefontfeature[latin-default]  [default]
[script=latn,expansion=quality,protrusion=pure]
\definefontfeature[latin-smallcaps][smallcaps][script=latn,expansion=quality,protrusion=pure]
\definefontfeature[latin-oldstyle] [oldstyle]
[script=latn,expansion=quality,protrusion=pure]

\starttypescript [sans] [kievit]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProRegular]
[name:KievitPro-Regular]         [features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProMedium]
[name:KievitPro-Medium]          [features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProExtraBold]
[name:KievitPro-ExtraBold]       [features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProItalic]
[name:KievitPro-Italic]          [features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProMediumItalic]
[name:KievitPro-MediumItalic]    [features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [KievitProExtraBoldItalic]
[name:KievitPro-ExtraBoldItalic] [features=latin-default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [sans] [kievit]
  \setups[font:fallback:sans]
  \definefontsynonym [Sans]           [KievitProRegular]
[features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [SansBold]       [KievitProMedium]
[features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [SansItalic]     [KievitProItalic]
[features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [SansBoldItalic] [KievitProMediumItalic]
[features=latin-default]
  \definefontsynonym [SansCaps]       [Sans]
[features=latin-smallcaps]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [kieviet]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [rm] [sans] [\typescriptone] [default]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [ss] [sans] [\typescriptone] [default]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [tt] [mono] [modern]
[default] [rscale=1.12]
  \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [mm] [math] [iwona]
[default] [rscale=1.02]
\stoptypescript

\usetypescript[kievit]
\setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]

\enableadjusting
\enableprotruding

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-28  6:43   ` Ulrich Dirr
  2008-08-28  8:50     ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2008-08-28  9:05     ` Taco Hoekwater
  2008-08-28 10:25       ` Ulrich Dirr
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-08-28  9:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ud, mailing list for ConTeXt users

Hi Ulrich,

Ulrich Dirr wrote:
>>
>> Afaics, everything else looks ok.
> 
> But has no effect :-(

I was apparently still sleeping when I wrote that. Here is what
works for me:

% engine=luatex
\definefontfeature
    [default][default]
    [protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]

\definetypeface[kievit][rm][serif][times][default]
\definetypeface[kievit][ss][serif][times][default]
\definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
\definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]

\setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]

\starttext
\showframe
\setupalign[hanging] \input tufte
\stoptext
%

I used [serif][times] instead of [sans][kievit] because I don't have
the font, but that should not matter. Things to note:

* The relative ordering of commands matters, your \definefontfeature
   was too late. I'll try to document that in the manual.
* You only need \usetypescript[xxx] if the \definetypeface
   commands are actually inside of a \starttypescript[xxx] block.
* It turns out I could not use [features=hz] because at a lower
   level [times] already sets up [features=default], and that setting
   wins over the high-level one.
   But in your new setup for kievit, you could also do it this way:
     \definefontfeature
        [hz][default]
        [protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
      \definetypeface[kievit][rm][serif][times][default][features=hz]
   just make sure not to attach any [features=...] to the
   \definefontsynonym commands.

Best wishes,
Taco
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-28  9:05     ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-08-28 10:25       ` Ulrich Dirr
  2008-08-28 10:32         ` Taco Hoekwater
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Dirr @ 2008-08-28 10:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ConTeXt Mailing List

Hi Taco,

On 2008-08-28 Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> % engine=luatex
> \definefontfeature
>     [default][default]
>     [protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
>  \definetypeface[kievit][rm][serif][times][default]
> \definetypeface[kievit][ss][serif][times][default]
> \definetypeface[kievit][tt][mono][modern][default][rscale=1.12]
> \definetypeface[kievit][mm][math][iwona] [default][rscale=1.02]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[kievit,ss,10pt]
> 
> \starttext
> \showframe
> \setupalign[hanging] \input tufte
> \stoptext
> %

This works!
 
> I used [serif][times] instead of [sans][kievit] because I don't have
> the font, but that should not matter. Things to note:
> 
> * The relative ordering of commands matters, your \definefontfeature
>    was too late. I'll try to document that in the manual.
> * You only need \usetypescript[xxx] if the \definetypeface
>    commands are actually inside of a \starttypescript[xxx] block.
> * It turns out I could not use [features=hz] because at a lower
>    level [times] already sets up [features=default], and that setting
>    wins over the high-level one.
>    But in your new setup for kievit, you could also do it this way:
>      \definefontfeature
>         [hz][default]
>         [protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,mode=node,script=latn]
>       \definetypeface[kievit][rm][serif][times][default][features=hz]
>    just make sure not to attach any [features=...] to the
>    \definefontsynonym commands.

Thank you very much for explaining these mysteries. The whole typescript
thingy is a strange black box for me ...

Interesting is that you instruct me not to use any features in
\definefontsynonym -- I had just copied this from the wiki. Then the wiki
should be updated ;-)

I would like to see on the wiki a real life working example for luatex/mkiv
using OpenType pro fonts for roman and sans serif, e.g. MinionPro and
MetaPro. Using several font features and languages (e.g. small caps, caps
spacing, greek, etc.)

This would demystify font handling a lot.

Best regards,
Ulrich



___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Some layout questions
  2008-08-28 10:25       ` Ulrich Dirr
@ 2008-08-28 10:32         ` Taco Hoekwater
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-08-28 10:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ud, mailing list for ConTeXt users

Ulrich Dirr wrote:
> 
> Interesting is that you instruct me not to use any features in
> \definefontsynonym -- I had just copied this from the wiki. Then the wiki
> should be updated ;-)

Well, the wiki (Wolfgang) is more right than I am. I was trying to
shortcut something and then later it became clear that that won't fly.
The problem lies with features like smallcaps: these *have* to be
defined at the font synonym level. It follows that Wolfgang's solution
is better than mine.

Best wishes,
Taco
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-08-28 10:32 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-08-26 10:59 Some layout questions Ulrich Dirr
2008-08-27 14:07 ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-08-28  6:43   ` Ulrich Dirr
2008-08-28  8:50     ` Wolfgang Schuster
2008-08-28  9:05     ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-08-28 10:25       ` Ulrich Dirr
2008-08-28 10:32         ` Taco Hoekwater

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