[NTG-context] Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[NTG-context] Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[Joel via ntg-context]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1454 bytes --]

I had to place \reference[]{} in various places in my document as I need to refer to page numbers of a lot of various items in the document. There are hundreds of these. When placing them, I hadn't realized it would impact the document design--I assumed such a command would be invisible.
Though I've tried placing as many inside the section titles, where they become invisible, I've found just placing \reference[]{} anywhere on a page will create extra blank spaces, leading my document to expand from 440 lines to 448. It added up quite quickly to 8 whole pages. No matter how much I use % or try to hide it within the page, it still produces weird results. It isn't invisible, its doing things to the document, moving text around, leaving gaps. In addition, it makes the document look haphazard, creating random formatting "glitches".

I'm assuming because \reference has a curly bracket {} that its causing something to be rendered, even it its not really something visible always, it often makes a carriage return on the page if placed say after a table, or before a section title. Sadly, the way the document was designed I don't have a way to integrate them inside the section titles everywhere, there are too many and some need to mark a specific page within a section.
I haven't placed anything inside the {} and only use the square brackets to mark the reference name. Is there an alternative command that won't occupy space like this?
--Joel

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1967 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 511 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Joel via ntg-context schrieb am 31.08.2024 um 16:37:
> I had to place \reference[]{} in various places in my document as I need 
> to refer to page numbers of a lot of various items in the document. 
> There are hundreds of these. When placing them, I hadn't realized it 
> would impact the document design--I assumed such a command would be 
> invisible.
> 
> Though I've tried placing as many inside the section titles, where they 
> become invisible, I've found just placing \reference[]{} anywhere on a 
> page will create extra blank spaces, leading my document to expand from 
> 440 lines to 448. It added up quite quickly to 8 whole pages. No matter 
> how much I use % or try to hide it within the page, it still produces 
> weird results. It isn't invisible, its doing things to the document, 
> moving text around, leaving gaps. In addition, it makes the document 
> look haphazard, creating random formatting "glitches".
> 
> I'm assuming because \reference has a curly bracket {} that its causing 
> something to be rendered, even it its not really something visible 
> always, it often makes a carriage return on the page if placed say after 
> a table, or before a section title. Sadly, the way the document was 
> designed I don't have a way to integrate them inside the section titles 
> everywhere, there are too many and some need to mark a specific page 
> within a section.
> 
> I haven't placed anything inside the {} and only use the square brackets 
> to mark the reference name. Is there an alternative command that won't 
> occupy space like this?

Did you learn anything from the answers of your last question [1] with 
similar content?

Hint: Minimal example!

[1] https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg108092.html

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[Bruce Horrocks]

> On 31 Aug 2024, at 15:37, Joel via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> I've found just placing \reference[]{} anywhere on a page will create extra blank spaces,

In the following MWE you should get two spaces, no spaces and one space respectively. If you get spaces with some other combination then please try and produce a short example.

\starttext
This is my text \reference[a]{} and more following.

This is my text\reference[b]{}and more following.

This is my text\reference[c]{} and more following.

\stoptext

Regards,
—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[Jürgen Hanneder via ntg-context]

I recently learned not to leave a space before and after \reference ,  
but have not seen
further complex problems as you describe so far. Can you give more  
specific examples for these,
I have to check, because I am also finalising a book at the moment.

Best wishes,
Jürgen

----- Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com> ---------
      Datum: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 16:06:41 +0100
        Von: Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com>
Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
    Betreff: [NTG-context] Re: Is there an alternative to  
\reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?
         An: ntg-context mailing list <ntg-context@ntg.nl>


>> On 31 Aug 2024, at 15:37, Joel via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>>
>> I've found just placing \reference[]{} anywhere on a page will  
>> create extra blank spaces,
>
> In the following MWE you should get two spaces, no spaces and one  
> space respectively. If you get spaces with some other combination  
> then please try and produce a short example.
>
> \starttext
> This is my text \reference[a]{} and more following.
>
> This is my text\reference[b]{}and more following.
>
> This is my text\reference[c]{} and more following.
>
> \stoptext
>
> Regards,
> —
> Bruce Horrocks
> Hampshire, UK
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /  
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


----- Ende der Nachricht von Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com> -----



---

Prof. Dr. Juergen Hanneder
Philipps-Universitaet Marburg
FG Indologie u. Tibetologie
Deutschhausstr.12
35032 Marburg
Germany
Tel. 0049-6421-28-24930
hanneder@staff.uni-marburg.de

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Is there an alternative to \reference[]{} that won't interfere with the document design?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Jürgen Hanneder via ntg-context schrieb am 31.08.2024 um 17:27:
> 
> I recently learned not to leave a space before and after \reference , 
> but have not seen
> further complex problems as you describe so far. Can you give more 
> specific examples for these,
> I have to check, because I am also finalising a book at the moment.

References need an anchor to know on which page they end up because a 
page is finished you don't know the answer.

The following example sets three references, one and three marks the 
start of each paragraph but where should two end up?

%%%% begin example
\usemodule[visual]

\setuppapersize[A6,landscape]

\setupwhitespace[line]

\starttext

\showmakeup[hbox]

\pagereference[one]\fakelines{10}{10}

\pagereference[two]

\pagereference[three]\fakelines{10}{10}

\page

\showmakeup[reset]

\starttabulate
\NC one   \NC \at[one]   \NC\NR
\NC two   \NC \at[two]   \NC\NR
\NC three \NC \at[three] \NC\NR
\stoptabulate

\stoptext
%%%% end example

When you process the example you get page 1 as output, but why is this 
the case. Take a look the the tracing information and you can see a "H" 
at the left bottom on page 1 which is missing on page 2, this is where 
ConTeXt places reference two. You get this "H" mark because 
\pagereference starts a new paragraph to ensure the is a anchorpoint but 
as a side effect you can end up with unwanted empty lines in your 
document, to test this change the argument of the first \fakelines from 
10 to 12 and now the stray "H" appears at the top left on the second 
page but in addition you get 2 empty lines at the top (1 for the 
reference and another 1 for the parskip).

Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________