* Reference to a subitem @ 2008-10-22 22:55 Diego Depaoli 2008-10-23 7:22 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-22 22:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Hi all, referencing a subitem I get also the item (1.a, 2.c and so on). Can I split them or get only the subitem? \starttext \startitemize [n] \item [number] one \startitemize [a] \item [letter] letter \stopitemize \stopitemize Look at number \in[number] letter \in[letter] \stoptext Normal output: Look at number 1 letter 1.a Wanted result Look at number 1 letter a Many thanks -- Diego Depaoli ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-22 22:55 Reference to a subitem Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-23 7:22 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-23 9:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-10-23 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Diego Depaoli <trebestie@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > referencing a subitem I get also the item (1.a, 2.c and so on). > Can I split them or get only the subitem? > > \starttext > \startitemize [n] > \item [number] one > \startitemize [a] > \item [letter] letter > \stopitemize > \stopitemize > Look at number \in[number] letter \in[letter] > \stoptext > > Normal output: > Look at number 1 letter 1.a > > Wanted result > Look at number 1 letter a \def\ItemNumber#1% {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax {\doifelsenothing{#2} {#1} {#2}} \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] \starttext \startitemize[n] \item[number] one \startitemize [a] \item[letter] letter \stopitemize \stopitemize Look at \initem{number}[number] \initem{letter}[letter] \stoptext Regards, Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-23 7:22 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-10-23 9:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-23 9:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: >> >> Wanted result >> Look at number 1 letter a > > \def\ItemNumber#1% > {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} As usual, Wolfgang solved! Mojca, can I have a Context t-shirt customized 'Wolfgang's fan club'? -- Diego Depaoli ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-23 7:22 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-23 9:58 ` Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-25 8:43 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-25 0:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: > > \def\ItemNumber#1% > {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} > > \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax > {\doifelsenothing{#2} > {#1} > {#2}} > > \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] Since I don't speak that language, someone could explain why this code doesn't work when I put a stopper in subitemization? The standard dot isn't a stopper itself? Cheers -- Diego Depaoli ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-27 9:56 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 8:43 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-10-25 7:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 02:58:24AM +0200, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): > 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: > > > > \def\ItemNumber#1% > > {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} > > > > \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax > > {\doifelsenothing{#2} > > {#1} > > {#2}} > > > > \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] > Since I don't speak that language, someone could explain why this code > doesn't work when I put a stopper in subitemization? > The standard dot isn't a stopper itself? This code seems to work (approximately) like this: it expands the "full" reference, which is: <number> <dot> <number> <dot> <something, probably space> and selects "everything from the first dot up to the second one (w/o the dots themselves). So I consider it to be a bit dirty hack (sorry, Wolfgang;)), in a sense that it is not very flexible. If your stopper is, say ")" (and the second one, say, "]", so you have references in a strange form like "1)2]"), you might want to say something like \def\doItemNumber #1)#2]#3\relax (the space after \doItemNumber is gobbled by TeX, so it might be present here or not, it is a matter of taste only). If you have different stoppers, another approach might be reasonable. I can see two possibilities: 1. Get to know _where_ ConTeXt really keeps the relevant info about labels; if the info about the values (w/o stoppers) is preserved, we are saved, if not, we've got a problem; 2. so in the latter case we have to (?) use this kind of hacky solution, which might be something like this (assuming that \stopper and \stopperr are the first- and second level stoppers respectively): \edef\sometemporarymacroname{% \def\noexpand\doItemNumber ##1\stopper ##2\stopperr ##3\relax {\noexpand\doifelsenothing{##2} {##1} {##2}}% }% \sometemporarymacroname (I'm not sure whether the last percentage sign is needed, but a good rule of thumb is to put them everywhere after <closing brace> <newline>, so that the newlines don't get translated into spaces.) I'm not sure whether this works, though, *please* check it and tell me (maybe I'm doing some stupid error, please the TeX gurus correct me if yes). I hope this is ok, though, because then it my first post to this list containing actually an _answer_ and not a _question_:))). > > Cheers > -- > Diego Depaoli Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) Kim jest ta, co wyłania się z pustyni, Idzie wsparta na swoim Oblubieńcu? ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-10-27 9:56 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-28 0:30 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-10-27 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users 2008/10/25 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>: > Dnia Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 02:58:24AM +0200, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): >> 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: >> > >> > \def\ItemNumber#1% >> > {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} >> > >> > \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax >> > {\doifelsenothing{#2} >> > {#1} >> > {#2}} >> > >> > \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] >> Since I don't speak that language, someone could explain why this code >> doesn't work when I put a stopper in subitemization? >> The standard dot isn't a stopper itself? > > This code seems to work (approximately) like this: it expands the "full" > reference, which is: > <number> <dot> <number> <dot> <something, probably space> > and selects "everything from the first dot up to the second one (w/o the > dots themselves). So I consider it to be a bit dirty hack (sorry, > Wolfgang;)), in a sense that it is not very flexible. It's just hack at user level, a dirty hack would redefine core macros but this is what I try to avoid. > If your stopper is, say ")" (and the second one, say, "]", so you have > references in a strange form like "1)2]"), you might want to say > something like > \def\doItemNumber #1)#2]#3\relax > (the space after \doItemNumber is gobbled by TeX, so it might be present > here or not, it is a matter of taste only). > If you have different stoppers, another approach might be reasonable. I > can see two possibilities: > 1. Get to know _where_ ConTeXt really keeps the relevant info about > labels; if the info about the values (w/o stoppers) is preserved, we are > saved, if not, we've got a problem; > 2. so in the latter case we have to (?) use this kind of hacky solution, > which might be something like this (assuming that \stopper and \stopperr > are the first- and second level stoppers respectively): > > \edef\sometemporarymacroname{% > \def\noexpand\doItemNumber ##1\stopper ##2\stopperr ##3\relax > {\noexpand\doifelsenothing{##2} > {##1} > {##2}}% > }% > \sometemporarymacroname > > (I'm not sure whether the last percentage sign is needed, but a good > rule of thumb is to put them everywhere after <closing brace> <newline>, > so that the newlines don't get translated into spaces.) You don't need the comment sign at the end of the macro in outer level but you need it for local definitons in other macros if your're in horizontal mode. > I'm not sure whether this works, though, *please* check it and tell me > (maybe I'm doing some stupid error, please the TeX gurus correct me if > yes). I hope this is ok, though, because then it my first post to this > list containing actually an _answer_ and not a _question_:))). Thanks to explain my solution. Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-27 9:56 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-10-28 0:30 ` Marcin Borkowski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-10-28 0:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:56:32AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a): > 2008/10/25 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>: > > Dnia Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 02:58:24AM +0200, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): > >> 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: > >> > > >> > \def\ItemNumber#1% > >> > {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} > >> > > >> > \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax > >> > {\doifelsenothing{#2} > >> > {#1} > >> > {#2}} > >> > > >> > \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] > >> Since I don't speak that language, someone could explain why this code > >> doesn't work when I put a stopper in subitemization? > >> The standard dot isn't a stopper itself? > > > > This code seems to work (approximately) like this: it expands the "full" > > reference, which is: > > <number> <dot> <number> <dot> <something, probably space> > > and selects "everything from the first dot up to the second one (w/o the > > dots themselves). So I consider it to be a bit dirty hack (sorry, > > Wolfgang;)), in a sense that it is not very flexible. > > It's just hack at user level, a dirty hack would redefine core macros but > this is what I try to avoid. OK, sorry - probably we have different semantics of "dirty" (or, more probably, we're talking about different "levels" of dirtiness). Here I meant roughly that this hack is not very flexible. > > If your stopper is, say ")" (and the second one, say, "]", so you have > > references in a strange form like "1)2]"), you might want to say > > something like > > \def\doItemNumber #1)#2]#3\relax > > (the space after \doItemNumber is gobbled by TeX, so it might be present > > here or not, it is a matter of taste only). > > If you have different stoppers, another approach might be reasonable. I > > can see two possibilities: > > 1. Get to know _where_ ConTeXt really keeps the relevant info about > > labels; if the info about the values (w/o stoppers) is preserved, we are > > saved, if not, we've got a problem; > > 2. so in the latter case we have to (?) use this kind of hacky solution, > > which might be something like this (assuming that \stopper and \stopperr > > are the first- and second level stoppers respectively): > > > > \edef\sometemporarymacroname{% > > \def\noexpand\doItemNumber ##1\stopper ##2\stopperr ##3\relax > > {\noexpand\doifelsenothing{##2} > > {##1} > > {##2}}% > > }% > > \sometemporarymacroname > > > > (I'm not sure whether the last percentage sign is needed, but a good > > rule of thumb is to put them everywhere after <closing brace> <newline>, > > so that the newlines don't get translated into spaces.) > > You don't need the comment sign at the end of the macro in outer level > but you need it for local definitons in other macros if your're in > horizontal mode. Shame on me, being a mathematician and being sooo imprecise:):) > > I'm not sure whether this works, though, *please* check it and tell me > > (maybe I'm doing some stupid error, please the TeX gurus correct me if > > yes). I hope this is ok, though, because then it my first post to this > > list containing actually an _answer_ and not a _question_:))). > > Thanks to explain my solution. You're welcome:). > Wolfgang Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) Jeść. Pić. Spać. Wstać. Kupić. Sprzedać. Mieć. Możesz więcej chcieć - czegoś więcej! (40i30na70) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-27 9:56 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-27 16:30 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-28 0:34 ` Marcin Borkowski 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-27 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users 2008/10/25 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>: > Dnia Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 02:58:24AM +0200, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): > This code seems to work (approximately) like this: it expands the "full" > reference, which is: > <number> <dot> <number> <dot> <something, probably space> > and selects "everything from the first dot up to the second one (w/o the > dots themselves). So I consider it to be a bit dirty hack (sorry, > Wolfgang;)), in a sense that it is not very flexible. Thanks for clarification, here I begin to understand > If your stopper is, say ")" (and the second one, say, "]", so you have > references in a strange form like "1)2]"), you might want to say > something like > \def\doItemNumber #1)#2]#3\relax mmmm... I tried before posting... doesn't work > \edef\sometemporarymacroname{% > \def\noexpand\doItemNumber ##1\stopper ##2\stopperr ##3\relax > {\noexpand\doifelsenothing{##2} > {##1} > {##2}}% > }% > \sometemporarymacroname Here I stop understand and I can't get this code working. Could you give me a full example? > I'm not sure whether this works, though, *please* check it and tell me > (maybe I'm doing some stupid error, please the TeX gurus correct me if > yes). I hope this is ok, though, because then it my first post to this > list containing actually an _answer_ and not a _question_:))). This time will never come for me. Cheers -- Diego Depaoli ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-27 16:30 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-28 0:34 ` Marcin Borkowski 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-27 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Another curiosity... why have such kind of reference since we get more flexibility with \in[item]\in[subitem]? -- Diego Depaoli ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-27 16:30 ` Diego Depaoli @ 2008-10-28 0:34 ` Marcin Borkowski 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-10-28 0:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dnia Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 05:24:56PM +0100, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): > 2008/10/25 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>: > > Dnia Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 02:58:24AM +0200, Diego Depaoli napisał(a): > > This code seems to work (approximately) like this: it expands the "full" > > reference, which is: > > <number> <dot> <number> <dot> <something, probably space> > > and selects "everything from the first dot up to the second one (w/o the > > dots themselves). So I consider it to be a bit dirty hack (sorry, > > Wolfgang;)), in a sense that it is not very flexible. > Thanks for clarification, here I begin to understand > > > If your stopper is, say ")" (and the second one, say, "]", so you have > > references in a strange form like "1)2]"), you might want to say > > something like > > \def\doItemNumber #1)#2]#3\relax > mmmm... I tried before posting... doesn't work Could you please send me a minimal example? > > \edef\sometemporarymacroname{% > > \def\noexpand\doItemNumber ##1\stopper ##2\stopperr ##3\relax > > {\noexpand\doifelsenothing{##2} > > {##1} > > {##2}}% > > }% > > \sometemporarymacroname > Here I stop understand and I can't get this code working. > Could you give me a full example? As above; send me a file, I'll try to do something. Still, I'm not really sure this would work, it was only a rough idea. I'll explain it later (it's 1:30 AM here in Poland;)). > > I'm not sure whether this works, though, *please* check it and tell me > > (maybe I'm doing some stupid error, please the TeX gurus correct me if > > yes). I hope this is ok, though, because then it my first post to this > > list containing actually an _answer_ and not a _question_:))). > This time will never come for me. If you follow the path of TeX, your expertise will gradually rise;). You'll never notice, though, until people start coming to you asking questions, and will be baffled by your expert-like, impossible-to-understand-and-technical answers;). > Cheers > -- > Diego Depaoli Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) - Gandalf! A ja myślałem, że nie żyjesz. Co prawda o sobie też byłem tego zdania. Sam Gamgee ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Reference to a subitem 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-10-25 8:43 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-10-25 8:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Diego Depaoli wrote: > 2008/10/23 Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: >> \def\ItemNumber#1% >> {\expandafter\doItemNumber#1..\relax} >> >> \def\doItemNumber#1.#2.#3\relax >> {\doifelsenothing{#2} >> {#1} >> {#2}} >> >> \definereferenceformat[initem][left=\ItemNumber] > Since I don't speak that language, someone could explain why this code > doesn't work when I put a stopper in subitemization? > The standard dot isn't a stopper itself? in mkiv this will be done differently, more control over each bit and piece Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-10-28 0:34 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-10-22 22:55 Reference to a subitem Diego Depaoli 2008-10-23 7:22 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-23 9:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 0:58 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-25 7:07 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-27 9:56 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2008-10-28 0:30 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-27 16:24 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-27 16:30 ` Diego Depaoli 2008-10-28 0:34 ` Marcin Borkowski 2008-10-25 8:43 ` Hans Hagen
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