Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 2:22 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> i leave it to others to react on the rest of your mail (some users have
> been tuning the mechanism too)
>
> Hans


On 11/21/2008 9:45 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> Am 21.11.2008 um 16:35 schrieb Lars Huttar:
> 
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Did either of you, Aditya or Steffen, have success modifying how URLs
>> are wrapped? Did you do it by using \sethyphenatedurlbefore/etc.?
>>
>> I'm trying to finish a production project and am stuck on this problem.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lars
> 
> 
> Hi Lars,
> 
> ... no, I am still hoping for a fix for that.
> 
> As far as I have seen also Mojca asked for "How to influence hyphenation
> points in URLs?"
> And even her got no answer! That's a bad sign ;o)
> 
> Steffen

On 11/21/2008 9:52 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> No, I had a deadline and in the end, I did URL breaking by hand, using
> \break at appropriate places. But it was a short article (4/5 pages).
>
> Aditya


So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
\sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
Has anybody else on the list done this?

If not, maybe the mkii implementation has never worked for that
purpose... it's possible, since urls are breaking after hyphens when
lang-url.mkii says to break before hyphens.

If this is the case (\sethyphenatedbefore/after in mkii is broken), then
rather than awaiting a fix for the soon-obsolete mkii implementation,
maybe I can do a workaround. I need help with the tex details though,
please, as I am still very much a tex newbie...

We are generating our tex document, so verbosity is not a problem, but
irregularity would be.
Rather than inserting \break in various places manually, which would
have to be redone often, I could automatically insert \discretionary or
\allowbreak before/after the appropriate characters in the tex document.
Would that work?
How would I suppress hyphenation at other points -- \dontleavehmode or
something like that?

Thanks again,

Lars


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Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 12:01 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> 
> So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
> \sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
> Has anybody else on the list done this?
> 
> If not, maybe the mkii implementation has never worked for that
> purpose... it's possible, since urls are breaking after hyphens when
> lang-url.mkii says to break before hyphens.
> 
> If this is the case (\sethyphenatedbefore/after in mkii is broken), then
> rather than awaiting a fix for the soon-obsolete mkii implementation,
> maybe I can do a workaround. I need help with the tex details though,
> please, as I am still very much a tex newbie...
> 
> We are generating our tex document, so verbosity is not a problem, but
> irregularity would be.
> Rather than inserting \break in various places manually, which would
> have to be redone often, I could automatically insert \discretionary or
> \allowbreak before/after the appropriate characters in the tex document.
> Would that work?
> How would I suppress hyphenation at other points -- \dontleavehmode or
> something like that?


OK... I have a working workaround... close your eyes, because it's ugly.

I just put \hbox{} around the sections that we don't want broken, and
\discretionary{}{}{} in the places we will allow a break:
	\hbox{http://}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{www}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.sil}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.org/}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{silesr/}...

One of our URLs goes from 89 to 391 characters!  :-p

Maybe posting this awful kluge to the list will motivate someone who
knows TeX better to post a more elegant solution. :-)

Ugly as it is, it does allow me to control exactly where I want to allow
a break and where I don't. So I'll go with that for now, in order to
meet our deadline.

I'm sure someone could write a TeX macro to do the above algorithmically
instead of brute-force specifying every possible break point explicitly.

But that's what \hyphenatedurl is supposed to be, and it doesn't seem to
be working for me.

Regards,
Lars





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Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> On 11/21/2008 12:01 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>>
>> So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
>> \sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
>> Has anybody else on the list done this?
>
> OK... I have a working workaround... close your eyes, because it's ugly.
>
> I just put \hbox{} around the sections that we don't want broken, and
> \discretionary{}{}{} in the places we will allow a break:
>        \hbox{http://}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{www}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.sil}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.org/}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{silesr/}...
>
> One of our URLs goes from 89 to 391 characters!  :-p
>
> Maybe posting this awful kluge to the list will motivate someone who
> knows TeX better to post a more elegant solution. :-)

I don't know many details about TeX, but simple tests like the one
below seem to work:

\bgroup
\catcode`\:=11
\catcode`\/=11
\catcode`\~=11
\catcode`\,=11
\catcode`\-=11
\catcode`\_=11
\catcode`\?=11

\lccode`\:=`\:
\lccode`\/=`\/
\lccode`\~=`\~
\lccode`\,=`\,
\lccode`\-=`\-
\lccode`\_=`\_
\lccode`\?=`\?

% not sure how to handle the dot, but this seems to work
\catcode`\.=11
\catcode`\^=11
\lccode`\^=`\.

\patterns{
8:3 % break after  : (never before)
3^8 % break before . (never after)
8/3 % break after  / (never before)
3~8 % break before ~ (never after)
3,8
3-8
3_8
3?8
}
\egroup


And then an ugly document (after selecting the proper language):

\bgroup
\catcode`\:=11
\catcode`\.=11
\catcode`\/=11
\catcode`\~=11
\catcode`\,=11
\catcode`\-=11
\catcode`\_=11
\catcode`\?=11

\lccode`\:=`\:
\lccode`\.=`\.
\lccode`\/=`\/
\lccode`\~=`\~
\lccode`\,=`\,
\lccode`\-=`\-
\lccode`\_=`\_
\lccode`\?=`\?

\showhyphens{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}

hello
\egroup

This returns
     http://-www-.sil-.org/-silesr/
But one would need to complete the rules above (should be almost
trivial), and of course one would need to write all the needed macros
to use the "url language" automatically when typesetting URLs.

Mojca
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Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 > hack hack hack hack ....

I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is 
in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are 
some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe 
whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes 
etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -

Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...

\bgroup

\gdef\lettercolon{:}

\catcode`\:=\active
\catcode`\^=\active
\catcode`\/=\active
\catcode`\~=\active

\gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
   {\dontleavehmode
    \begingroup
    \mathcode`\:="8000
    \mathcode`\^="8000
    \mathcode`\/="8000
    \mathcode`\~="8000
    \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
    \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
    \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
    \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
    \everymath\emptytoks
    \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
    \endgroup}

\egroup

\hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}


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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>  > hack hack hack hack ....
>
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -

Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)

Mojca
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line of text after a table

[Albrecht Kauffmann]

Hi all,

would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?

With many thanks for any hint,
Albrecht



On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >
> >  > hack hack hack hack ....
> >
> > I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> > in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> > some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> > whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> > etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
>
> Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
> paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
> but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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Re: line of text after a table

[Taco Hoekwater]

Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
> 

Just do
   \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }

Best wishes,
Taco

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Re: line of text after a table

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
>> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>>
>
> Just do
>   \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }

\placefigure[]{}{\placelegend{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]}{Data source: ...}}

Regards,
Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 4:53 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
>  > hack hack hack hack ....
> 
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is 
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are 
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe 
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes 
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
> 
> Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...
> 
> \bgroup
> 
> \gdef\lettercolon{:}
> 
> \catcode`\:=\active
> \catcode`\^=\active
> \catcode`\/=\active
> \catcode`\~=\active
> 
> \gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
>    {\dontleavehmode
>     \begingroup
>     \mathcode`\:="8000
>     \mathcode`\^="8000
>     \mathcode`\/="8000
>     \mathcode`\~="8000
>     \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
>     \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
>     \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
>     \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
>     \everymath\emptytoks
>     \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
>     \endgroup}
> 
> \egroup
> 
> \hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}
> 

Thanks, this is great.

Looks like, as in improvement over \hyphenatedurl, it allows you to
specify that you can break before a character, after, or both.

I think I can even see how to use it in a document...
though, would I have to undo the initial \catcode commands after the
\egroup?

Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
   \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
which is not a big problem.

Thanks,
Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Lars Huttar wrote:

> Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
> unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
>    \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
> which is not a big problem.

it's no problem to catch the // but in general this method is not that 
generic since font changes in math are somewhat limited and kerning is 
gone too

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/24/2008 8:45 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Lars Huttar wrote:
> 
>> Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
>> unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
>>    \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
>> which is not a big problem.
> 
> it's no problem to catch the // but in general this method is not that 
> generic since font changes in math are somewhat limited and kerning is 
> gone too

Oh... so my ugly \hbox{...}\discretionary{}{}{} method eliminates
kerning? Bummer...

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Re: line of text after a table

[Albrecht Kauffmann]

Dear ConTeXtuals,

a few days ago I asked this question but got not any answer. I think it is
an important issue to couple a comment with a float (e.g. a table or
figure) that has to be moved together with the float, similarly to local
footnotes. Has someone solved this problem already somehow or other?

With many thanks for hints,
Albrecht

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>
> With many thanks for any hint,
> Albrecht
>
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > >
> > >  > hack hack hack hack ....
> > >
> > > I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> > > in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> > > some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> > > whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> > > etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
> >
> > Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
> > paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
> > but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)
> >
> > Mojca
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> > wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 21.11.2008 um 23:53 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>> hack hack hack hack ....
>
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem  
> is
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there  
> are
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo  
> rthe
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
>
> Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...
>
> \bgroup
>
> \gdef\lettercolon{:}
>
> \catcode`\:=\active
> \catcode`\^=\active
> \catcode`\/=\active
> \catcode`\~=\active
>
> \gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
>   {\dontleavehmode
>    \begingroup
>    \mathcode`\:="8000
>    \mathcode`\^="8000
>    \mathcode`\/="8000
>    \mathcode`\~="8000
>    \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
>    \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
>    \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
>    \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
>    \everymath\emptytoks
>    \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
>    \endgroup}
>
> \egroup
>
> \hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}



Conclusion please:

Is \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks an improvement of \hyphenatedurls
in terms of being closer to this "Chicago style" sort of standard?

[And thus being part of next beta?]

Or is it a personal hack, fitting Lars' needs?


Steffen
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

> Conclusion please:
> 
> Is \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks an improvement of \hyphenatedurls
> in terms of being closer to this "Chicago style" sort of standard?

no, a hack just for mojca, not finished, and since inmath mode hardly 
configurable with respect to fonts etc

> [And thus being part of next beta?]

no, onluy as comment

> Or is it a personal hack, fitting Lars' needs?

not even that but if it serves that purpose, fine

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 2:22 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Lars Huttar wrote:
>> On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>>> 2) Even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlafter /" instead of
>>> "\sethyphenatedurlbefore /", there are four cases where a URL is broken
>>> before a slash, e.g.:
>>> http://www.sil.org/.../009
>>> /YAMBASSA.html.
>>> and no cases where a URL is broken after a slash (except when it's also
>>> before a slash -- see 1).
>>>
>>> I wonder if my modifications are actually taking effect?
>>> Do I need to compile the changes to the .mkii file or something? I tried
>>> texexec.bat --make --all, but that didn't seem to change the outcome.
>> Can someone tell me if there's a compile command necessary for mkii?
> 
> texexec --make
> 

Thanks for your reply...
OK, I did that. Behavior with respect to the two outstanding problems
(breaking after hyphen and before slash) has not changed.
But it's good to know that it's not due to some dependencies not being
updated.

> however, i strongly advise you to put such patches or tuning in your 
> document style because otherwise you loose them when you update

Understood. A colleague tells me that if I put the
\sethyphenatedurlbefore/after settings in the .tex document they will
override the settings in lang-url.mkii, which is very good news.

So if lang-url.mkii says
	\sethyphenatedurlbefore \letterbar
I can comment that line out in lang-url.mkii; but if I don't want to
modify lang-url.mkii, can I accomplish the same thing by putting
	\sethyphenatedurlnormal \letterbar
in my .tex file?


>> \ifx\normalquitvmode\undefined \else \let\dontleavehmode\normalquitvmode \fi
>>
>> I am running Xetex, FWIW.
>> "This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.999.6 (Web2C 7.5.7)"
>>
>> The above makes me think that "dontleavehmode" should prevent any
>> 'hyphenation' except for the types explicitly allowed in lang-url.mkii
>> via \sethyphenatedurlafter/before/normal.
> 
> just leave dontleavehmode untouched; it's definition adapts itself to 
> the engine
> 
> i leave it to others to react on the rest of your mail (some users have 
> been tuning the mechanism too)

I would be very glad to hear from said users who have had any success.
I'm emailing Steffen and Aditya now.


Actually, just now looking at lang-url.tex I see the comments

%D For those who want to put full \URL's in a text, we offer
%D
%D \startbuffer
%D
\hyphenatedurl{http://optimist.optimist/optimist/optimist.optimist#optimist}
%D \stopbuffer
%D
%D \typebuffer

which makes me wonder if I need to put the
\startbuffer,\stopbuffer,\typebuffer commands in my tex code. But I
think maybe it's markup for generating documentation.
If so, I wonder why I can't find such generated documentation on
\hyphenatedurl.

Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Lars Huttar wrote:
> On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>> 2) Even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlafter /" instead of
>> "\sethyphenatedurlbefore /", there are four cases where a URL is broken
>> before a slash, e.g.:
>> http://www.sil.org/.../009
>> /YAMBASSA.html.
>> and no cases where a URL is broken after a slash (except when it's also
>> before a slash -- see 1).
>>
>> I wonder if my modifications are actually taking effect?
>> Do I need to compile the changes to the .mkii file or something? I tried
>> texexec.bat --make --all, but that didn't seem to change the outcome.
> 
> Can someone tell me if there's a compile command necessary for mkii?

texexec --make

however, i strongly advise you to put such patches or tuning in your 
document style because otherwise you loose them when you update

> \ifx\normalquitvmode\undefined \else \let\dontleavehmode\normalquitvmode \fi
> 
> I am running Xetex, FWIW.
> "This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.999.6 (Web2C 7.5.7)"
> 
> The above makes me think that "dontleavehmode" should prevent any
> 'hyphenation' except for the types explicitly allowed in lang-url.mkii
> via \sethyphenatedurlafter/before/normal.

just leave dontleavehmode untouched; it's definition adapts itself to 
the engine

i leave it to others to react on the rest of your mail (some users have 
been tuning the mechanism too)

Hans


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> 2) Even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlafter /" instead of
> "\sethyphenatedurlbefore /", there are four cases where a URL is broken
> before a slash, e.g.:
> http://www.sil.org/.../009
> /YAMBASSA.html.
> and no cases where a URL is broken after a slash (except when it's also
> before a slash -- see 1).
> 
> I wonder if my modifications are actually taking effect?
> Do I need to compile the changes to the .mkii file or something? I tried
> texexec.bat --make --all, but that didn't seem to change the outcome.

Can someone tell me if there's a compile command necessary for mkii?

> 3) Conversely, even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlbefore -" and not
> "\sethyphenatedurlafter -", there is a case where a URL is broken after
> a hyphen (a hyphen that was already present in the URL):
> http://www..../Niger-
> Congo/...
> and no case where a URL is broken before a hyphen.
> Note that the "\sethyphenatedurlbefore -" setting is unchanged from the
> original lang-url.mkii, so this is not an issue of needing to recompile.
> 
> Maybe the general tex hyphenation mechanism is operating here, in spite
> of the URL breaking settings. How do I override that (only for the URL)?

Maybe it would help if someone could explain to me what 'normal' means
in lang-url.mkii:

\def\dohyphenatedurlnormal#1{\char#1\relax}%
\def\dohyphenatedurlafter
#1{\char#1\discretionary{}{\hyphenatedurlseparator}{}}%
\def\dohyphenatedurlbefore#1{\discretionary{\hyphenatedurlseparator}{}{}\char#1\relax}%

% 0=normal 1=before 2=after

\def\sethyphenatedurlnormal#1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\zerocount}
\def\sethyphenatedurlbefore#1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\plusone  }
\def\sethyphenatedurlafter #1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\plustwo  }

It looks like 'normal' means don't put a discretionary
hyphenatedurlseparator before/after the character. Which would mean
either (a) the url cannot be separated there (unless an adjacent
character has hyphenatedurlbefore/after specified on it); or (b) the url
will follow the same hyphenation rules as normal text (no special
url-related rules). Can anyone tell me which it is? The definition of
hyphenatedurl is:

\unexpanded \def\hyphenatedurl#1%
  {\dontleavehmode
   \begingroup
   \the\everyhyphenatedurl
   \edef\ascii{#1}%

\expanded{\handletokens{\detokenize\expandafter{\ascii}}}\with\dohyphenatedurl
   \endgroup}

and the definition of \dontleavehmode is in syst-ext.tex with some comments:

%D \macros
%D  {dontleavehmode}
%D
%D Sometimes when we enter a paragraph with some command, the
%D first token gets the whole first line. We can prevent this
%D by saying:
%D
%D \starttyping
%D \dontleavehmode
%D \stoptyping
...
\unexpanded \def\dontleavehmode
  {\ifhmode\else \ifmmode\else
     \setbox\@@dlhbox\hbox{\mathsurround\zeropoint\everymath\emptytoks$
$}\unhbox\@@dlhbox
   \fi \fi}
...
%D But, if you run a recent version of \TEX, we can use the new
%D primitive:

\ifx\normalquitvmode\undefined \else \let\dontleavehmode\normalquitvmode \fi

I am running Xetex, FWIW.
"This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.999.6 (Web2C 7.5.7)"

The above makes me think that "dontleavehmode" should prevent any
'hyphenation' except for the types explicitly allowed in lang-url.mkii
via \sethyphenatedurlafter/before/normal.

Yet that isn't happening... it's breaking before slash instead of after,
 and after hyphen instead of before.

I wondered briefly whether I had misinterpreted (swapped) the semantics
of \sethyphenatedurlafter and \sethyphenatedurlbefore. But no,
"\sethyphenatedurlbefore ." is working as expected: URLs break before a
period. So I'm just puzzled.

Thanks for any help...

Lars

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/20/2008 2:29 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Lars Huttar wrote:
>> On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>>> However, I have a few unsolved problems here.
>>>
>>> 1) I don't see a way, with the '\sethyphenatedurlbefore' or 'after'
>>> mechanism, to tell it not to break a URL between two slashes, as in
>>> "http://". At first I thought that since our text only had a few URLs,
>>> we'd likely never care. But ... you guessed it. One URL got broken
>>> between the slashes: "http:/
>>> /www.sil.org/..."
>> I found a way to deal with this... Based on a tip from
>> http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/language/latex/latex03-LaTexUsage/ar01s04.html,
>> I used
>> 	{\lefthyphenmin=64 http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...}
>> It seems to work in practice -- hyphenation and breaking are disabled
>> for the "http://" chunk. And hyphenation seems to successfully resume
>> afterwards.
>> This also fixes the problem of a URL breaking before the "//".
>>
>> The other problems are still outstanding though (wanting to break a URL
>> after a slash, not before; and before a hyphen, not after).
>>
>> Thanks for any ideas...
> 
> cleaner than the lefthyphenmin hackery .,..
> 
> {\hbox{http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...

Thank you!

> in context mkiv i can provide a hyphenater based on the url syntax 
> (after all, mkiv already has an analyser for urls)

That would be great, but as I understand it, using mkiv would require us
to move to a beta version of ConTeXt... and we're right at the end (we
hope!) of a production cycle, where moving to any new version (whether
beta or not) could cost us a lot of time if any behavior changes.

So while I would be glad to see a hyphenator based on URL syntax, I
don't think a mkiv version won't help us this time.

Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Lars Huttar wrote:
> On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>> However, I have a few unsolved problems here.
>>
>> 1) I don't see a way, with the '\sethyphenatedurlbefore' or 'after'
>> mechanism, to tell it not to break a URL between two slashes, as in
>> "http://". At first I thought that since our text only had a few URLs,
>> we'd likely never care. But ... you guessed it. One URL got broken
>> between the slashes: "http:/
>> /www.sil.org/..."
> 
> I found a way to deal with this... Based on a tip from
> http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/language/latex/latex03-LaTexUsage/ar01s04.html,
> I used
> 	{\lefthyphenmin=64 http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...}
> It seems to work in practice -- hyphenation and breaking are disabled
> for the "http://" chunk. And hyphenation seems to successfully resume
> afterwards.
> This also fixes the problem of a URL breaking before the "//".
> 
> The other problems are still outstanding though (wanting to break a URL
> after a slash, not before; and before a hyphen, not after).
> 
> Thanks for any ideas...

cleaner than the lefthyphenmin hackery .,..

{\hbox{http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...

in context mkiv i can provide a hyphenater based on the url syntax 
(after all, mkiv already has an analyser for urls)


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/19/2008 2:35 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> 
> However, I have a few unsolved problems here.
> 
> 1) I don't see a way, with the '\sethyphenatedurlbefore' or 'after'
> mechanism, to tell it not to break a URL between two slashes, as in
> "http://". At first I thought that since our text only had a few URLs,
> we'd likely never care. But ... you guessed it. One URL got broken
> between the slashes: "http:/
> /www.sil.org/..."

I found a way to deal with this... Based on a tip from
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/language/latex/latex03-LaTexUsage/ar01s04.html,
I used
	{\lefthyphenmin=64 http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...}
It seems to work in practice -- hyphenation and breaking are disabled
for the "http://" chunk. And hyphenation seems to successfully resume
afterwards.
This also fixes the problem of a URL breaking before the "//".

The other problems are still outstanding though (wanting to break a URL
after a slash, not before; and before a hyphen, not after).

Thanks for any ideas...
Lars

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/18/2008 3:44 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> >From what I can tell, the .tex file loads one of the other three:
>> 	\loadmarkfile{lang-url}
> 
>   \loadmarkfile loads either lang-url.mkii or lang-url.mkiv, depending
> on the ConTeXt version you're running (MkII / MkIV).  In Mark IV, the
> Lua code is then put in lang-url.lua, which is input by lang-url.mkiv
> (you can see "\registerctxluafile{lang-url}{1.001}" near the beginning
> of the latter).  This architecture enables you to reuse the Lua code in
> completely different environments (for example, in a pure Lua script).
> 
>> Our project has a requirement of using Xetex, so I have to stick with
>> that. Does that mean lang-url doesn't work at all?
> 
>   ConTeXt on XeTeX is considered Mark II as far as the mark business
> goes (it doesn't know about Lua), so you have access to the exact same
> code as with pdfTeX; in this case, lang-url.mkii will be loaded. 

OK, I've taken a stab at it. Here is the main code now in the modified
lang-url.mkii. For brevity in this email I've just omitted the lines
that I actually commented out in the file, namely characters that
Chicago style does not say you can line-break URLs on.

\def\sethyphenatedurlnormal#1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\zerocount}
\def\sethyphenatedurlbefore#1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\plusone  }
\def\sethyphenatedurlafter #1{\expandafter\chardef\csname url @
#1\endcsname\plustwo  }

% Chicago manual of style rules:
% Break URLs after: / or // (I don't know how to implement // so will be
content with / for now.
%      To do: prevent breaking in middle of double slash //.)
% Break URLs before: ~ . , - _ ? # %
% Break URLs before or after: = & (I don't know how to implement 'before
or after' so will
%       be content with breaking 'before' these characters for now).
\sethyphenatedurlbefore \letterhash
\sethyphenatedurlbefore \letterpercent
\sethyphenatedurlbefore \letterampersand
\sethyphenatedurlbefore ,
\sethyphenatedurlbefore -
\sethyphenatedurlbefore .
\sethyphenatedurlbefore =
\sethyphenatedurlbefore ?
\sethyphenatedurlbefore _
\sethyphenatedurlbefore \lettertilde

\sethyphenatedurlafter / % was \sethyphenatedurlbefore /


However, I have a few unsolved problems here.

1) I don't see a way, with the '\sethyphenatedurlbefore' or 'after'
mechanism, to tell it not to break a URL between two slashes, as in
"http://". At first I thought that since our text only had a few URLs,
we'd likely never care. But ... you guessed it. One URL got broken
between the slashes: "http:/
/www.sil.org/..."

So I tried using the base tex hyphenation mechanism to inhibit breaking
there: I changed the document from
	\hyphenatedurl{http://www.sil.org/...}
to
	\hyphenatedurl{\hyphenation{http://}www.sil.org/...}
but that gave a stack overflow.

Then I tried
	\hyphenation{http://}\hyphenatedurl{www.sil.org/...}
but got this error:
! Not a letter.
<inserted text> http:
                     //
\hyphenation ...malhyphenation {\the \scratchtoks
                                                  }\endgroup
<argument> ... Linguistics. \hyphenation {http://}
                                                  \hyphenatedurl
{www.sil.or...

\BE #1->\startmainexdent {#1
                            }\stopmainexdent
l.317 ...l.org/silesr/abstract.asp?ref=2007-015}.}


I'm kind of shooting in the dark there, so maybe somebody who knows TeX
can help me out.


2) Even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlafter /" instead of
"\sethyphenatedurlbefore /", there are four cases where a URL is broken
before a slash, e.g.:
http://www.sil.org/.../009
/YAMBASSA.html.
and no cases where a URL is broken after a slash (except when it's also
before a slash -- see 1).

I wonder if my modifications are actually taking effect?
Do I need to compile the changes to the .mkii file or something? I tried
texexec.bat --make --all, but that didn't seem to change the outcome.


3) Conversely, even though I have "\sethyphenatedurlbefore -" and not
"\sethyphenatedurlafter -", there is a case where a URL is broken after
a hyphen (a hyphen that was already present in the URL):
http://www..../Niger-
Congo/...
and no case where a URL is broken before a hyphen.
Note that the "\sethyphenatedurlbefore -" setting is unchanged from the
original lang-url.mkii, so this is not an issue of needing to recompile.

Maybe the general tex hyphenation mechanism is operating here, in spite
of the URL breaking settings. How do I override that (only for the URL)?


4) In one case, a URL is broken over the end of a column. That's ok, but
it would be nice to be able to strongly discourage that from happening
at the end of a page. I'm told that's a difficult problem to solve. It's
not mandatory for us at this point but if anyone has a solution I'd like
to hear about it.


Thanks,
Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> OK... but I'm not sure what I would do differently if I'm not worrying
> about the \loadmarkfile mechanism... Still modify the lang-url.mkii file?

  Sure.  I simply meant that you only needed to produce a single file,
your modified lang-url.mkii, whereas if you wanted to develop for both
MkII and MkIV, you would have needed a more involved structure.  Anyway ...

	Arthur
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/18/2008 3:44 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> >From what I can tell, the .tex file loads one of the other three:
>> 	\loadmarkfile{lang-url}
> 
>   \loadmarkfile loads either lang-url.mkii or lang-url.mkiv, depending
> on the ConTeXt version you're running (MkII / MkIV).  In Mark IV, the
> Lua code is then put in lang-url.lua, which is input by lang-url.mkiv
> (you can see "\registerctxluafile{lang-url}{1.001}" near the beginning
> of the latter).  This architecture enables you to reuse the Lua code in
> completely different environments (for example, in a pure Lua script).
> 
>> Our project has a requirement of using Xetex, so I have to stick with
>> that. Does that mean lang-url doesn't work at all?
> 
>   ConTeXt on XeTeX is considered Mark II as far as the mark business
> goes (it doesn't know about Lua), so you have access to the exact same
> code as with pdfTeX; in this case, lang-url.mkii will be loaded.

Thanks for the explanation... this is helpful.

So it sounds like I should definitely modify the lang-url.mkii file.

>  But if
> you know that all your users will be using XeTeX, you don't really need
> to worry about the \loadmarkfile mechanism; it is there to accommodate
> different engines.

OK... but I'm not sure what I would do differently if I'm not worrying
about the \loadmarkfile mechanism... Still modify the lang-url.mkii file?

Given that I'm willing to put in a little extra effort to make the
result available to a wider set of users, should I still modify
lang-url.mkii?

>> We also have users using ConTeXt Minimal as well as ConTeXt from the
>> TeXLive 2008 distribution.
> 
>   The particular distribution one uses shouldn't be a problem at all for
> implementing hyphenation rules.

Good to know, thanks.

>> I want to do things in a way that will work in both. I would be happy to
>> put in some extra effort to make the result generally available to
>> others who want to follow the Chicago style for wrapping long URLs.
> 
>   This will certainly be most appreciated.
> 

I will probably need more help in order to know how to do this. Once
I've finished doing it for us, in .mkii, I'll ask again on this list.

Thanks again,
Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Arthur Reutenauer]

>>From what I can tell, the .tex file loads one of the other three:
> 	\loadmarkfile{lang-url}

  \loadmarkfile loads either lang-url.mkii or lang-url.mkiv, depending
on the ConTeXt version you're running (MkII / MkIV).  In Mark IV, the
Lua code is then put in lang-url.lua, which is input by lang-url.mkiv
(you can see "\registerctxluafile{lang-url}{1.001}" near the beginning
of the latter).  This architecture enables you to reuse the Lua code in
completely different environments (for example, in a pure Lua script).

> Our project has a requirement of using Xetex, so I have to stick with
> that. Does that mean lang-url doesn't work at all?

  ConTeXt on XeTeX is considered Mark II as far as the mark business
goes (it doesn't know about Lua), so you have access to the exact same
code as with pdfTeX; in this case, lang-url.mkii will be loaded.  But if
you know that all your users will be using XeTeX, you don't really need
to worry about the \loadmarkfile mechanism; it is there to accommodate
different engines.

> We also have users using ConTeXt Minimal as well as ConTeXt from the
> TeXLive 2008 distribution.

  The particular distribution one uses shouldn't be a problem at all for
implementing hyphenation rules.

> I want to do things in a way that will work in both. I would be happy to
> put in some extra effort to make the result generally available to
> others who want to follow the Chicago style for wrapping long URLs.

  This will certainly be most appreciated.

	Arthur
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___________________________________________________________________________________

modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

Hello,
I would like to modify the rules for wrapping URLs (aka "hyphenating"
URLs, but generally without inserting hyphens) to conform more closely
to the Chicago Manual of Style, 15th ed. I've read on this list that the
code for doing this is defined in the \hypthenatedurl

There are several files with the same name, in
contextminimal\texmf-context\tex\context\base\:
	lang-url.mkii
	lang-url.mkiv
	lang-url.lua
	lang-url.tex

>From what I can tell, the .tex file loads one of the other three:
	\loadmarkfile{lang-url}

I'm not sure which one it loads -- the lua, mkii, or mkiv.
All three seem to have the rules for url hyphenation encoded in them.
Is it a matter of which engine I'm using, e.g. luatex?
Our project has a requirement of using Xetex, so I have to stick with
that. Does that mean lang-url doesn't work at all?

We also have users using ConTeXt Minimal as well as ConTeXt from the
TeXLive 2008 distribution.
I want to do things in a way that will work in both. I would be happy to
put in some extra effort to make the result generally available to
others who want to follow the Chicago style for wrapping long URLs.

Thanks for any hints...

Lars
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