XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

I'm was planning to write my master thesis in XeLaTeX until I
discovered that ConTeXt can use the XeTeX engine.
I need to use a lot of Hebrew - so Right to Left typing - and some 
linguistic glyphs and stuff.

But from the wiki I understand there are still some issues with 
ConTeXt's XeTeX-awareness.

Like the bookmarks "may result in some strangeness in certain documents"
Can someone tell me what kind of strangeness?

And XeTeX can't use "certain specials and other types of features"
Can someone tell me what kind of "specials and types of features"?

And now on this list there is a lot of talk about LuaTeX and Mark IV.
So I wonder: Is it possible to use MarkIV and XeTeX engine at the same time?
And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?

Thanks in advance,

Adriaan Pater

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Yue Wang]

Hi,

> Like the bookmarks "may result in some strangeness in certain documents"
> Can someone tell me what kind of strangeness?
>

Many features like dvi / metapost may produce strange result. you can
search the mailing list and you can find plenty of them.


> And XeTeX can't use "certain specials and other types of features"
> Can someone tell me what kind of "specials and types of features"?

Like Lua language programming, controling nodes/tokens. But writing a
thesis will not use these features.

>
> And now on this list there is a lot of talk about LuaTeX and Mark IV.
> So I wonder: Is it possible to use MarkIV and XeTeX engine at the same time?

no.

> And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?

Since XeTeX does not provide most of the LuaTeX features.

Yue Wang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

Thanks for the answers!
Especially the tip about searching the mailing list!
 >> And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?
 >
 > Since XeTeX does not provide most of the LuaTeX features.

Does LuaTeX support right to left utf-8 Hebrew typing with ttf/otf fonts?
Would it be (much) more complicated than in XeTeX?

Thanks again.

Adriaan

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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM, J.A.J. Pater <jajpater@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does LuaTeX support right to left utf-8 Hebrew typing with ttf/otf fonts?
> Would it be (much) more complicated than in XeTeX?

LuaTeX has more features for RTL than XeTeX because it's one of the
goals of the LuaTeX project.

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew

Wolfgang
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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Hans Hagen]

J.A.J. Pater wrote:

> And now on this list there is a lot of talk about LuaTeX and Mark IV.
> So I wonder: Is it possible to use MarkIV and XeTeX engine at the same 
> time?
> And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?

you could use both at the same time, but xetex uses mkii and luatex uses 
mkiv

in principle mkii is frozen so new features and improvements will only 
happen in mkiv

concerning bidi: luatex does this natively (based on omega/aleph code) 
while xetex does it the etex way which has some limitations

(since mkiv/luatex is tested extensively in the oriental tex project it 
probably makes more sense to use mkiv)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Hans Hagen]

J.A.J. Pater wrote:
> Thanks for the answers!
> Especially the tip about searching the mailing list!
>  >> And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?
>  >
>  > Since XeTeX does not provide most of the LuaTeX features.
> 
> Does LuaTeX support right to left utf-8 Hebrew typing with ttf/otf fonts?
> Would it be (much) more complicated than in XeTeX?

it should work; best communicate this with idris since he's the r-l 
expert and can help you to get started

do you have example files/fonts?

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:29 AM, J.A.J. Pater wrote:
> I'm was planning to write my master thesis in XeLaTeX until I
> discovered that ConTeXt can use the XeTeX engine.
> I need to use a lot of Hebrew - so Right to Left typing - and some
> linguistic glyphs and stuff.
>
> But from the wiki I understand there are still some issues with ConTeXt's
> XeTeX-awareness.
>
> Like the bookmarks "may result in some strangeness in certain documents"
> Can someone tell me what kind of strangeness?

Do not worry about bookmarks. You can probably ask Hans to fix it if
it doesn't work properly.

> And XeTeX can't use "certain specials and other types of features"
> Can someone tell me what kind of "specials and types of features"?

I would not bother too much. One of the differences is that XeLaTeX
has very good high-level support for changing fonts. That one is
missing, but you can still do everything you need. In particular, if
you are writing your thesis, those few additional lines that you might
need for properly setting the font should not be a problem.

XeLaTeX also has some support for OpenType math, but you don't need that.

> And now on this list there is a lot of talk about LuaTeX and Mark IV.
> So I wonder: Is it possible to use MarkIV and XeTeX engine at the same time?
> And if not, why should (or shouldn't) I use MarkIV over XeTeX?

Minus of Mark IV: it's a bit unstable; problems are fixed quickly, but
it's a bit annoying if your thesis doesn't compile one hour or day
before the deadline (when you do the final run before you print the
document and of course you have no backup of PDF). You can make sure
that this doesn't happen by keeping two versions of ConTeXt installed
just in case (one that you update and one that you don't).

Plus of Mark IV: it has a very powerful programming language in the
background. Fun to use (which could just as well be a minus if you
become interested in playing with it or in fixing the problems instead
of writing your thesis :) :) :) Very well supported.

In case that you don't need advanced MKIV features, you can, at least
in theory, use the same source to typeset the document with both XeTeX
and LuaTeX. For documents that are not too complex this is what I
usually do. If I stumble across a problem in one engine, there's still
a chance that the other engine will work properly.

Mojca
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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2126 bytes --]

I've already send a mail in reply to Hans, but it was to big since I 
attached the TTF.
I don't know if the moderator will approve of posting fonts.
But it can also be found on the web: 
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=EzraSIL_Home
So the moderator can drop my last mail, it was to extensive anyway.
Installed on my computer [Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10] 
/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-sil-ezra/SILEOT.ttf

I got the font working by adapting the ara-sty from 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew to heb-sty (attached)
I also adapted the example from the above link (attached as test.tex).
I ran it with the minimals.

Issues I still have:
I don't know how to use Hebrew and Latin text next to each other.
I don't like the font I get with \setlatin
I don't want every word on a new page
I don't have the faintest clue as to what I'm doing inside of heb-sty.

What's important for me is to use hebrew text inside of latin text.
I'd like to be able to do things like:

\starttext
This is the word for peace: \hebrew[שלם].
Isn't that what we all wish for?
\stoptext

Many thanks to Hans and Mojca!

Adriaan.

P.S. If you're interested in what I don't get in ara-sty casu quo heb-sty:

1. \mainlanguage[hebrew]
The wiki: "Sets the main language to hebrew, so that translatable titles
are translated to Arabic."
What exactly does "translatable titles" mean in this senctence?
The main language of my document is in Latin.

2a. Why all the following stuff:

\starttypescript [serif] [hebrew] [name]
\usetypescript[serif][fallback]
\definefontsynonym [Serif] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
\definefontsynonym [SerifItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
\definefontsynonym [SerifBold] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
\definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
\stoptypescript

2b. What does serif mean?

3. I don't get the defining of the directional commands either.

4. I absolutely don't get what I'm doing here

\definestartstop
[hebrewpar]
[commands=\Hebrew\HebrewParDir]

\define[1]\RT
{{\Hebrew\HebrewTextDir#1}}

[-- Attachment #2: heb-sty.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 1591 bytes --]

\startenvironment heb-sty

\mainlanguage[hebrew]

% Font setup

\definefontfeature
   [hebrew]
   [mode=node,language=dflt,script=hebr,
    init=yes,medi=yes,fina=yes,isol=yes,
    liga=yes,dlig=yes,rlig=yes,clig=yes,
    mark=yes,mkmk=yes,kern=yes,curs=yes]

\starttypescript [serif] [hebrew]
 \definefontsynonym [Ezra SIL] [name:SILEOT] [features=hebrew]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [hebrew] [name]
 \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
 \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
 \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
 \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
 \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [Hebrew]
  \definetypeface [Hebrew] [rm] [serif] [hebrew] [default] 
\stoptypescript 

\def\HebrewGlobalDir {\pagedir TRT\bodydir TRT\pardir TRT\textdir TRT}
\def\HebrewParDir    {\textdir TRT\pardir TRT}
\def\HebrewTextDir   {\textdir TRT}
\def\LatinParDir     {\textdir TLT\pardir TLT}
\def\LatinTextDir    {\textdir TLT}
\def\LatinGlobalDir  {\pagedir TLT\bodydir TLT\pardir TLT\textdir TLT}

\define\sethebrew
  {\HebrewGlobalDir%
   \usetypescript[Hebrew]%
   \setupbodyfont[Hebrew,20pt]}

\definestartstop
  [hebrewpar]
  [commands=\Hebrew\HebrewParDir]

\define[1]\RT
  {{\Hebrew\HebrewTextDir#1}}

\define\setlatin
  {\LatinGlobalDir%
   \usetypescript[lm]%
   \setupbodyfont[lm,20pt]}

\definestartstop
  [latinpar]
  [commands=\Hebrew\LatinParDir]

\define[1]\LT
  {{\LatinTextDir#1}}

\setcharactermirroring[1]

\stopenvironment


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #3: test.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex; name="test.tex", Size: 134 bytes --]

% engine=luatex 

\environment heb-sty

\starttext
This is a test.

\sethebrew הָלַך

\setlatin walking

\stoptext


[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Hans Hagen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2914 bytes --]

J.A.J. Pater wrote:
> I've already send a mail in reply to Hans, but it was to big since I 
> attached the TTF.
> I don't know if the moderator will approve of posting fonts.
> But it can also be found on the web: 
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=EzraSIL_Home
> So the moderator can drop my last mail, it was to extensive anyway.
> Installed on my computer [Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10] 
> /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-sil-ezra/SILEOT.ttf
> 
> I got the font working by adapting the ara-sty from 
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew to heb-sty (attached)
> I also adapted the example from the above link (attached as test.tex).
> I ran it with the minimals.
> 
> Issues I still have:
> I don't know how to use Hebrew and Latin text next to each other.
> I don't like the font I get with \setlatin
> I don't want every word on a new page
> I don't have the faintest clue as to what I'm doing inside of heb-sty.
> 
> What's important for me is to use hebrew text inside of latin text.
> I'd like to be able to do things like:
> 
> \starttext
> This is the word for peace: \hebrew[שלם].
> Isn't that what we all wish for?
> \stoptext
> 
> Many thanks to Hans and Mojca!
> 
> Adriaan.
> 
> P.S. If you're interested in what I don't get in ara-sty casu quo heb-sty:
> 
> 1. \mainlanguage[hebrew]
> The wiki: "Sets the main language to hebrew, so that translatable titles
> are translated to Arabic."
> What exactly does "translatable titles" mean in this senctence?
> The main language of my document is in Latin.
> 
> 2a. Why all the following stuff:
> 
> \starttypescript [serif] [hebrew] [name]
> \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
> \definefontsynonym [Serif] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
> \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
> \definefontsynonym [SerifBold] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
> \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
> \stoptypescript
> 
> 2b. What does serif mean?
> 
> 3. I don't get the defining of the directional commands either.
> 
> 4. I absolutely don't get what I'm doing here
> 
> \definestartstop
> [hebrewpar]
> [commands=\Hebrew\HebrewParDir]
> 
> \define[1]\RT
> {{\Hebrew\HebrewTextDir#1}}

attached a more efficient variant

btw:

= there will be a more high level par direction text dir changer
= you can use the hebrew font also for latin
= you can combine fonts into one font *using teh font fallback mechanism)


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[-- Attachment #2: heb-sty.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 1207 bytes --]

\startenvironment heb-sty

\mainlanguage[hebrew]

\definefontfeature
   [hebrew]
   [mode=node,language=dflt,script=hebr,
    init=yes,medi=yes,fina=yes,isol=yes,
    liga=yes,dlig=yes,rlig=yes,clig=yes,
    mark=yes,mkmk=yes,kern=yes,curs=yes]

\starttypescript [serif] [hebrew]
    \definefontsynonym [EzraSIL] [file:sileot] [features=hebrew]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [hebrew] [name]
    \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
    \definefontsynonym [Serif] [EzraSIL] [features=hebrew]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [hebrew]
    \definetypeface [hebrew] [rm] [serif] [hebrew] [default]
\stoptypescript

\def\HebrewParDir {\textdir TRT\pardir TRT}
\def\HebrewTextDir{\textdir TRT}
\def\LatinParDir  {\textdir TLT\pardir TLT}
\def\LatinTextDir {\textdir TLT}

\usetypescript[hebrew]

\define\sethebrew{\HebrewParDir\switchtobodyfont[hebrew,20pt]}
\define\setlatin {\LatinParDir \switchtobodyfont[modern,20pt]}

\definestartstop[hebrewpar][commands=\hebrew\HebrewParDir]
\definestartstop[latinpar] [commands=\Hebrew\LatinParDir]

\define[1]\RT{\begingroup\hebrew\HebrewTextDir#1\endgroup}
\define[1]\LT{\begingroup\modern\LatinTextDir #1\endgroup}

\setcharactermirroring[1]

\stopenvironment


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #3: test.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex; name="test.tex", Size: 145 bytes --]

% engine=luatex

\environment heb-sty

\starttext

This is a test.

\sethebrew test הָלַך test

\setlatin walking

\stoptext


[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

Thanks very much Hans!

I will start reading everything about fonts next week.

> J.A.J. Pater wrote:
>> I've already send a mail in reply to Hans, but it was to big since I 
>> attached the TTF.
>> I don't know if the moderator will approve of posting fonts.
>> But it can also be found on the web: 
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=EzraSIL_Home
>> So the moderator can drop my last mail, it was to extensive anyway.
>> Installed on my computer [Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10] 
>> /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-sil-ezra/SILEOT.ttf
>>
>> I got the font working by adapting the ara-sty from 
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew to heb-sty (attached)
>> I also adapted the example from the above link (attached as test.tex).
>> I ran it with the minimals.
>>
>> Issues I still have:
>> I don't know how to use Hebrew and Latin text next to each other.
>> I don't like the font I get with \setlatin
>> I don't want every word on a new page
>> I don't have the faintest clue as to what I'm doing inside of heb-sty.
>>
>> What's important for me is to use hebrew text inside of latin text.
>> I'd like to be able to do things like:
>>
>> \starttext
>> This is the word for peace: \hebrew[שלם].
>> Isn't that what we all wish for?
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Many thanks to Hans and Mojca!
>>
>> Adriaan.
>>
>> P.S. If you're interested in what I don't get in ara-sty casu quo 
>> heb-sty:
>>
>> 1. \mainlanguage[hebrew]
>> The wiki: "Sets the main language to hebrew, so that translatable titles
>> are translated to Arabic."
>> What exactly does "translatable titles" mean in this senctence?
>> The main language of my document is in Latin.
>>
>> 2a. Why all the following stuff:
>>
>> \starttypescript [serif] [hebrew] [name]
>> \usetypescript[serif][fallback]
>> \definefontsynonym [Serif] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
>> \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
>> \definefontsynonym [SerifBold] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
>> \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Ezra SIL] [features=hebrew]
>> \stoptypescript
>>
>> 2b. What does serif mean?
>>
>> 3. I don't get the defining of the directional commands either.
>>
>> 4. I absolutely don't get what I'm doing here
>>
>> \definestartstop
>> [hebrewpar]
>> [commands=\Hebrew\HebrewParDir]
>>
>> \define[1]\RT
>> {{\Hebrew\HebrewTextDir#1}}
>
> attached a more efficient variant
>
> btw:
>
> = there will be a more high level par direction text dir changer
> = you can use the hebrew font also for latin
> = you can combine fonts into one font *using teh font fallback mechanism)
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

So what I wanted was just:

\environment heb-sty

\starttext

test1 {\switchtotypeface [hebrew] הָלַך} test2

\stoptext

Thanks again!
I'll be using MarkIV for my thesis with XeTeX as a fallback option.

Adriaan.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> attached a more efficient variant

Hello Hans,

I don't know anything about right-to-left typesetting, but is the
result of this desired? (not sure if I copy-pasted properly)

\sethebrew test \ConTeXt\  הָלַך test

Mojca

PS: I get tXeTnoC. I also get some funny results like disappearing
words, but since I'm completely ignorant here, I won't even start
complaining.
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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

It works OK here:

\sethebrew test3 \ConTeXt\ הָלַך test4

gives => test4 הָלַך test3 ConTeXt

This is the way the macro is meant to be!

I guess the tXeTnoC is indeed a result of improper copy-pasting.

Unicode works with invisible formatting characters used to control 
bidirectional typesetting.
[LTR: (U+202D); RTL: (U+203D); (U+202C) cancels the effect of the other two]

Copy-pasting (@-mailing?) can be a problem since sometimes these 
characters fall away.
The RTL unicode charater is missing from the text underneath so I guess 
that's the problem.

Adriaan.


Mojca Miklavec schreef:
 > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
 >> attached a more efficient variant
 >
 > Hello Hans,
 >
 > I don't know anything about right-to-left typesetting, but is the
 > result of this desired? (not sure if I copy-pasted properly)
 >
 > \sethebrew test \ConTeXt\  הָלַך test
 >
 > Mojca
 >
 > PS: I get tXeTnoC. I also get some funny results like disappearing
 > words, but since I'm completely ignorant here, I won't even start
 > complaining.
 > 
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 > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an 
entry to the Wiki!
 >
 > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
 > archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
 > wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
 > 
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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[J.A.J. Pater]

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My guess was incorrect.
I copy-pasted the underneath text into my test file and I got good results.
No tXeTnoC.
So here it just works like a charm.

Grtz, Adriaan.

> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>   
>> attached a more efficient variant
>>     
>
> Hello Hans,
>
> I don't know anything about right-to-left typesetting, but is the
> result of this desired? (not sure if I copy-pasted properly)
>
> \sethebrew test \ConTeXt\  הָלַך test
>
> Mojca
>
> PS: I get tXeTnoC. I also get some funny results like disappearing
> words, but since I'm completely ignorant here, I won't even start
> complaining.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>   


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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:54 PM, J.A.J. Pater wrote:
> My guess was incorrect.
> I copy-pasted the underneath text into my test file and I got good results.
> No tXeTnoC.
> So here it just works like a charm.

I'm sorry. I accidentally commented out \setcharactermirroring[1]
while switching between XeTeX and LuaTeX. So this time just for fun:
XeTeX doesn't know textdir command, so I commented out both textdir
and setcharactermirroring. And then you get XtEConT with XeTeX :) :)
:)

Mojca

PS: keep in mind that the problem lies in user-end not in engine, but
I still find the result funny :)
I used the wrong set of direction-switching commands, though it's
still interesting that XeTeX and LuaTeX both accept input, but
generate completely different results. (\pardir without \textdir has
no influence in mkiv while it changes word stacking direction in
XeTeX.)
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Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> attached a more efficient variant
> 
> Hello Hans,
> 
> I don't know anything about right-to-left typesetting, but is the
> result of this desired? (not sure if I copy-pasted properly)
> 
> \sethebrew test \ConTeXt\  הָלַך test
> 
> Mojca
> 
> PS: I get tXeTnoC. I also get some funny results like disappearing
> words, but since I'm completely ignorant here, I won't even start
> complaining.

it should be ok if automirroring is on but even then one might expect 
some issues

we will cook up a proper bidi support model in the oriental tex project 
(not so much the text, but how layout, boxed and other issues has to be 
  dealt with)

currently hartmut is revisioning all directional issues (we took some 
code from omega but it was not always properly/consistently acting in 
relation with backend issues in dvi/pdf) and when that is done i'll see 
what is needed (the main layout is not the issue, but more details like 
boxed stuff, think of llap and friends as well as spacing)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: XeTeX and/or LuaTeX?

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:54 PM, J.A.J. Pater wrote:
>> My guess was incorrect.
>> I copy-pasted the underneath text into my test file and I got good results.
>> No tXeTnoC.
>> So here it just works like a charm.
> 
> I'm sorry. I accidentally commented out \setcharactermirroring[1]
> while switching between XeTeX and LuaTeX. So this time just for fun:
> XeTeX doesn't know textdir command, so I commented out both textdir
> and setcharactermirroring. And then you get XtEConT with XeTeX :) :)
> :)

xetex uses the etex bidi method (\beginL .. \endL and such)

> I used the wrong set of direction-switching commands, though it's
> still interesting that XeTeX and LuaTeX both accept input, but
> generate completely different results. (\pardir without \textdir has
> no influence in mkiv while it changes word stacking direction in
> XeTeX.)

well, since they both use different rl machinery it can never be the same;

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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