From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/48460 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xan Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Is there anything like developer's manual for ConTeXt? Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:26 +0100 Message-ID: <49BF6056.6020702@telefonica.net> References: <49BF0323.90807@gmail.com> <49BF0C12.90707@studiochango.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1237278857 11923 80.91.229.12 (17 Mar 2009 08:34:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:34:17 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Mar 17 09:35:34 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LjUll-0000tM-Ji for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:35:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36CB91FC84; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:05 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22614-02; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:38 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8C61FC7C; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:37 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43351FC7C for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:36 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22470-02 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:29 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter1-ams.mf.surf.net (filter1-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.69]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2551D1FB3C for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:29 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ctsmtpout2.frontal.correo (outmailhost.telefonica.net [213.4.149.242]) by filter1-ams.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n2H8XS9Q008866 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:28 +0100 Original-Received: from [172.26.0.5] (83.55.56.86) by ctsmtpout2.frontal.correo (7.2.056.6) (authenticated as dxpublica) id 49B4D713002F8BFA for ntg-context@ntg.nl; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:27 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) In-Reply-To: <49BF0C12.90707@studiochango.com> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.4.149.242; country=ES; region=29; city=Madrid; latitude=40.4000; longitude=-3.6833; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.4000,-3.6833&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 194656326 - 5e941b014497 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.69 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:48460 Archived-At: En/na Corin Royal Drummond ha escrit: > Wei-Wei Guo wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> After fighting with ConTeXt one month, I find it's too difficult. I >> have two years >> experience of LaTeX. I never thought ConTeXt could be so difficult. >> Using ConTeXt >> is like climbing a steep mountain, every step need extensive >> searching, reading, >> and asking. >> >> Sorry for the useless complain. I'm stuck by so many problems. I >> might be lack of >> the basic knowledge of ConTeXt. Could someone tell me where I can >> find manuals or >> papers that describe the logic of ConTeXt design and basics of >> ConTeXt programming. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Best wishes, >> Wei-Wei Yes, there is a hole in that way. I'm agree too. > Many have voiced the same complaint. I understand that Hans and every > one are occupied with building MKIV (aka LuaTeX), and that > documentation is not their highest priority. There's the wiki, the > wonderfully active mailing list, and what used to be decent docs from > 2001/2002 timeframe. But yes, it's a steep hill to climb, made worth > it only by the relative awesomeness of ConTeXt. > If there is an existing strategy for creating documentation, I'd love > to hear it. > My feeling is it's it's time to pay someone to write some good docs. > Someone who's not on the development team, who has experience writing > technical documentation, and who can shepard list members into crowd > sourcing some real documentation. The problem is who. Who has this high technical knowledge and he/she is not developer?. People I know that have this high tech knowledge of ConTeXt is developer. > MKIV is stabilizing into usefulness, and now is a good time to > start. I suspect list members would donate to such a project, plus we > could get some grant money (if that's not all dried up due to the > global economy), and maybe some contribution from Pragma itself, and > other orgs that depend on ConTeXt. A patchwork quilt of financing, > and a project coordinator/writer who sees their work as a labor of > love, and a side job, could make this happen. Even if we could only > afford 10 hours of work a week, that could get a lot done. > In terms of process, I think someone to comb the list archives for > common problems and solutions, and wikify them would get the most bang > for the buck initially. These wiki entries could later be > ConTeXtified into printed (and screen) docs, like Hans' awesome old > manuals. Good idea. Just a suggestion. If someone starts new documentation, it should be free. Now the "only" documentation for users is "ConTeXt manual", "Context, an excursion" (and some PracTeX journal and MAPS journal articles). These documents are copyrated by Pragma. And for the other hand the license of documentation of ConTeXt is Creative Commons Atribution Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0. I think it's better if the new documentation were free: Creative Commons Attribution 3.0, Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 or GNU Free Documentation License. It could estimulate more users than now. It's my opinion. > Honestly, we've got smart people wasting time answering the same > questions in different ways on the list, when they could be plugging > in some of that time into writing docs for everyone. And as useful as > the list is, it's no substitute for manuals. Really how many people are using ConTeXt and how many developers are here? For example, how many people are subscribing in this list: it could tells us what's the number of users. > If I understood ConTeXt I'd volunteer, but I'm a noob, so I'm feeling > the same frustration as Wei-Wei. I feel bad having to bug developers > and advanced users every time I have a basic question. It's > inefficient and inelegant, though I much appreciate the access to > great minds and the window into the development process this has given > me. > Pile on to this thread, if this is a burning issue for you, or you > have some strategy or expertise to offer. > Cheers, > > Corin Regards, Xan (a simple user) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________