From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/50664 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robert-Andr=E9_Mauchin?= Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: French typography is back Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:28:59 +0200 Message-ID: <4A15490B.3050607@pengzone.org> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1242908999 8297 80.91.229.12 (21 May 2009 12:29:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:29:59 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Thu May 21 14:29:52 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M77PE-0005Sd-QF for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D722D1FDF0; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:49 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24078-04; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:25 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE461FDE9; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:25 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F7B1FDE9 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24094-05 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-til.mf.surf.net (filter3-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.219]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1D01FDE6 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from relay4-v.mail.gandi.net (relay4-v.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.78]) by filter3-til.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n4LCTERQ029726 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (mfilter3-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.44]) by relay4-v.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9854ABA1F for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter3-d.mgt.gandi.net Original-Received: from relay4-v.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.78]) by localhost (mfilter3-d.mgt.gandi.net [217.70.178.44]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bz-p91bQ0nJK for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [192.168.10.51] (ip-201.net-89-3-63.rev.numericable.fr [89.3.63.201]) by relay4-v.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03305BA17 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:11 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090513 Fedora/3.0-2.3.beta2.fc11 Thunderbird/3.0b2 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=217.70.178.78; country=FR; region=A8; city=Paris; latitude=48.8667; longitude=2.3333; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=48.8667,2.3333&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 229619987 - 95928b2c1b11 - 20090521 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.219 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:50664 Archived-At: Hi again, I have been reading all threads about the French typography in this = mailing list, however the current solution is alas far for perfect. The = command \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] was a good idea, but it = only deals with spacing. French typography rules not only tells us that = there should be a narrow, or a normal space before some punctuation = marks like :, ;, , !, ?, =AB or =BB, but also that theses spaces must be no= n = breakable otherwise line breaking could occur just before a punctuation = mark (and this is very bad). Take a look at the following example: \section{Production locale indig=E8ne ou production romaine import=E9e?} With the current frenchpunctuation command, we got: Production locale indig=E8ne ou production romaine import=E9e ? We should obtain: Production locale indig=E8ne ou production romaine import=E9e ? Of course we could achieve this manually by adding the correct NNBSP = like this: \section{Production locale indig=E8ne ou production romaine import=E9e\,?} But I believe the whole point of TeX is to let the engine make all the = typographic stuff. The best would be to get rid off \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] = and adapt the frenchb Babel module from Daniel Flipo (source and = explanation here http://daniel.flipo.free.fr/frenchb/ ), as a module = (t-french modification), or when loading the language, but I really = don't know how hard it would be since it handles a lot more than just = punctuation marks. Regards, Bob. ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________