mkiv structure

mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples 
were posted for testing the structure code

maybe we can set up a repository with such test files (but someone needs 
to coordinate it) where they can end up after posting and fixing 
possible errors in the examples; we do need some ordering

Hans

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Re: mkiv structure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Monday 15 June 2009 10:02:35 Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples
> were posted for testing the structure code
>

% Example taken from cont-enp.pdf
% However, adding \part{} is problematic...
% (maybe someone can correct this?)
%
\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided,way=bytext,partnumber=no]
\setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no]
\doifmode{mkiv}{
	\setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1]
	\setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5]
	}
\setuplabeltext[chapter=Chapter ] \setuplist[chapter][label=yes]
\setuplist[part,chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection]
          [partnumber=no,interaction=all,alternative=c]
	  % number – title – dots – pagenumber

\starttext

\startfrontmatter
	\completecontent
	\chapter{Introduction}		% in content, no number
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
	\part{Beginning}
	\chapter{First}			% number 1, in content
	\section{Alfa}			% number 1.1, in content
	\section{Beta}			% number 1.2, in content
	\chapter{Second}		% number 2, in content
	\subject{Blabla}		% no number, not in content
	\part{End}
	\chapter{Third}			% number 3, in content
\stopbodymatter
\startappendices
	\chapter{Index}			% letter A, in content
	\chapter{Abbreviations}		% letter B, in content
\stopappendices
\startbackmatter
	\chapter{Acknowlegdement}	% no number, in content
	\title{Colofon}			% no number, not in content
\stopbackmatter

\stoptext

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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> On Monday 15 June 2009 10:02:35 Hans Hagen wrote:
>> I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples
>> were posted for testing the structure code
>>
> 
> % Example taken from cont-enp.pdf
> % However, adding \part{} is problematic...
> % (maybe someone can correct this?)
> %
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided,way=bytext,partnumber=no]
> \setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no]
> \doifmode{mkiv}{
> 	\setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1]
> 	\setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5]
> 	}
> \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chapter ] \setuplist[chapter][label=yes]
> \setuplist[part,chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection]
>           [partnumber=no,interaction=all,alternative=c]
> 	  % number – title – dots – pagenumber

keys like partnumber (<section>number) are obsolete ... and replace by 
prefxset etc (see strc-def.mkiv for example definitions)


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: mkiv structure

[Alan BRASLAU]

In my experience, a \part is generally
(except in some rather technical documents)
not treated as a super-chapter, that is
chapter numbers (and titles) are not reset
and retain their status as if the book was not
divided into parts.

A very long work is commonly broken into "volumes".
Here, each volume may or may not reset chapter numbers.
Page numbering may or may not reflect the volume number.
This is a sylistic choice.

In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.

Alan

On Thursday 02 July 2009 23:25:57 Hans Hagen wrote:
> keys like partnumber (<section>number) are obsolete ... and replace by
> prefxset etc (see strc-def.mkiv for example definitions)

Obsolete in mkii?
Shouldn't basic use (read standard users)
treat source text transparently
between mkii and mkiv?

\setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no]
\doifmodeelse{mkiv}{
	\setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1]
	\setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5]
} {
	\setuppagenumbering[partnumber=no]
	\setuplist[chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection]
		[partnumber=no]
}

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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
> logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
> Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
> maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
> Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
> for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
> without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
> such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.

there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them

> Obsolete in mkii?
> Shouldn't basic use (read standard users)
> treat source text transparently
> between mkii and mkiv?

no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we 
have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for 
each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't 
want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: mkiv structure

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 03.07.2009 um 16:04 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> Alan BRASLAU wrote:
>
>> In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
>> logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
>> Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
>> maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
>> Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
>> for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
>> without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
>> such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
>
> there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them

Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I  
tried
a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very  
successful.

Wolfgang

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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> Am 03.07.2009 um 16:04 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> 
>> Alan BRASLAU wrote:
>>
>>> In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
>>> logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
>>> Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
>>> maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
>>> Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
>>> for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
>>> without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
>>> such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
>>
>> there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
> 
> Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I 
> tried
> a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful.

needs a fix (seems to be old code mixed into newer)

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Hi Wolfgang

>> Alan BRASLAU wrote:
>>
>>> In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
>>> logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
>>> Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
>>> maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
>>> Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
>>> for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
>>> without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
>>> such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
>>
>> there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
> 
> Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I 
> tried
> a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful.

i redid that bit of code so we now have

\definestructureresetset[default][0,1,1,0][1]

% normally we use the shared default so there is no need to configure
% all levels (confusing anyway)
%
% \setuphead[part][sectionresetset=default]

\starttext
     \placelist[chapter,section,subsection][criterium=all,width=3cm]
     \part{first}  \chapter{alpha} \section{a} \section{b} 
\subsection{x} \subsection{y} \chapter{beta}
     \part{second} \chapter{gamma} \section{a} \section{b} 
\subsection{x} \subsection{y} \chapter{delta}
\stoptext

(this example resets only chapter and section)

(only in the experimental version on the ftp)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: mkiv structure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Friday 03 July 2009 16:04:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
> > Obsolete in mkii?
> > Shouldn't basic use (read standard users)
> > treat source text transparently
> > between mkii and mkiv?
>
> no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we
> have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for
> each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't
> want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks

I understand and I do agree, basically.
However, any (and all) differences need to be clearly documented.
I know that you are working on this. Perhaps we need to put together
a mkii->mkiv changes summary document, from the users point of view
updating http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV (or Mark_IV_differences).

I am aware of a few differences, but am far from having a complete view.


On Sunday 05 July 2009 11:32:35 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I  
> tried a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very  
> successful.

Yes, please provide an example. I too have tried different blind guesses
and have not succeeded either.

Alan

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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> On Friday 03 July 2009 16:04:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> Obsolete in mkii?
>>> Shouldn't basic use (read standard users)
>>> treat source text transparently
>>> between mkii and mkiv?
>> no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we
>> have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for
>> each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't
>> want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks
> 
> I understand and I do agree, basically.
> However, any (and all) differences need to be clearly documented.
> I know that you are working on this. Perhaps we need to put together
> a mkii->mkiv changes summary document, from the users point of view
> updating http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV (or Mark_IV_differences).

feel free to document this on the wiki

we can tag such incompatibilities as 'permanent', 'temporary' and 'to be 
discussed'

there will also be a module that collects a couple of 'obsolete' 
commands (often obsolete because we have better methods now but some 
ancient style might use them)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> In my understanding, \part serves to delimit
> logical sections of related chapters, not volumes.
> Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation;
> maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes.
> Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple
> for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior
> without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings
> such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.

part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured 
in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: mkiv structure

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
> part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured
> in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special

It is a question of default setup.
\part is configured differently : no title, additional page number, etc.
My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and latex).

Alan

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Re: mkiv structure

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 09.07.2009 um 09:59 schrieb Alan BRASLAU:

> On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
>> part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be  
>> configured
>> in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special
>
> It is a question of default setup.
> \part is configured differently : no title, additional page number,  
> etc.
> My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and  
> latex).

The part handling in ConTeXt (MkII) is different from the one in LaTeX,
ConTeXt resets the chapter number while in LaTeX the chapter number
continues over parts.

Wolfgang

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Re: mkiv structure

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> Am 09.07.2009 um 09:59 schrieb Alan BRASLAU:
> 
>> On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured
>>> in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special
>>
>> It is a question of default setup.
>> \part is configured differently : no title, additional page number, etc.
>> My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and latex).
> 
> The part handling in ConTeXt (MkII) is different from the one in LaTeX,
> ConTeXt resets the chapter number while in LaTeX the chapter number
> continues over parts.

we (on the wiki) collect reasonable default combinations and then cook 
up some mechanism that enables them,

\setupstructure
   [preset=...]

or so (presets can be just setups in a reserved namespace)

Hans


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references (mainlanguage)

[Alan BRASLAU]

First question:
Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage?
(in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK,
but not \in{chapter}!)

Second question:
How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?

Third question:
Why is the chapter label text blank by default?

Thanks.
Alan

Minimal example:

\mainlanguage[fr]

\setupinteraction[state=start]
\setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default?
\starttext

\chapter[ch:first]{Premier}
\placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{}
\chapter[ch:second]{Second}

\in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots

\stoptext

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Re: references (mainlanguage)

[Willi Egger]

Hi,

On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:17 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

> First question:
> Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage?
> (in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK,
> but not \in{chapter}!)

The text included in the braces must be in french \in{chaptre}[ref]


> Second question:
> How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?

Hm, do not know, my test do not reveal the expected result

> Third question:
> Why is the chapter label text blank by default?

If I understand you correctly you want  Chaptre 1 The title of the  
chapter.
In this case I would say, that this uncommon to use at least in Dutch  
and German. In case you need it you have to set the labeltext.
>
> Thanks.
> Alan
>
> Minimal example:
>
> \mainlanguage[fr]
>
> \setupinteraction[state=start]
> \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default?
> \starttext
>
> \chapter[ch:first]{Premier}
> \placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{}
> \chapter[ch:second]{Second}
>
> \in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots
>
> \stoptext
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ 
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> _____________

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Re: references (mainlanguage)

[Alan BRASLAU]

Thanks for the hints.



On Thursday 02 July 2009 23:07:43 Willi Egger wrote:
> > Second question:
> > How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?
> 
> Hm, do not know, my test do not reveal the expected result

\in{Figure}?
(perhaps this should be a suggestion for a new feature)



> If I understand you correctly you want  Chaptre 1 The title of the  
> chapter.
> In this case I would say, that this uncommon to use at least in Dutch  
> and German. In case you need it you have to set the labeltext.

One commonly finds both cases in English as well as in French.
This also is the default in the LaTeX book class (based on common
English usage. [However, maybe this is a bad idea...]).

Sometimes, the label text only appears in the table of contents,
not on the first page of the chapter. I am not an expert, and only
refer to a sampling of the books in my bookcase
(sorry, I do not have any books in Dutch!)

Rather than setting the labeltext (ConTeXt already knows the labeltext),
I would suggest a switch, such as
\setuphead[chapter][placelabel=yes]

(OK if "no" by default, to conform to common usage in many languages)

Alan

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Re: references (mainlanguage)

[Hans Hagen]

Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> First question:
> Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage?
> (in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK,
> but not \in{chapter}!)
> 
> Second question:
> How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?
> 
> Third question:
> Why is the chapter label text blank by default?
> 
> Thanks.
> Alan
> 
> Minimal example:
> 
> \mainlanguage[fr]
> 
> \setupinteraction[state=start]
> \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default?
> \starttext
> 
> \chapter[ch:first]{Premier}
> \placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{}
> \chapter[ch:second]{Second}
> 
> \in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots
> 
> \stoptext

actually, in mkiv we have info available that permit ssoem auto label 
approach ... remind me in a couple of weeks


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